Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

[Langolier]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I really don't think nerfing their sword skill will do much.

I mean, if Red Mage wasn't intended to melee, then why'd they get all those self-only en-spells? Infact, rather than nerfing RDM melee even more, it should probably recieve a boost at some point. It doesn't make much sense to me that RDM, and other jobs have high ranked skills that are useless in exp.

Of-course, I wouldn't want this to happen until many other classes had been 'fixed'. Red Mage is certainly not in need of any help. I don't know, maybe the aspect of melee for RDM was just a bad idea from the start.

(like combining a slow hitter with lengthy spells...)

[tazirai]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Out of all the jobs, I think RDMs suck the most. What I mean is, there is more bad RDMs than any other job... RDMs can get by being crappy as long as they refresh, and they are always in demand... they get away with murder ;x.

Seen my share of crap Summoners to ^^,
I started as RDM since i'd always wanted to be one. When my RDM was 50+
we didnt have Refresh, So what to do then? I still did my normal duties and was able to ,miss, miss,miss,miss,miss,hit,miss. while in a PT hehe. But now I do agree to a point that a crap rdm shouldnt melee in PT. Especially if they cant do their mage jobs. But I know maybe 5-6 Red Mages that are great on Ramuh. I wont name myself because Im 100% Summoner unless im needed as something else during a mission.

But there are a ton of Bad "Red ninja warrior".......mages out there.

[Pitlourde]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

RDM are supposed to be able to fill a melee role in a party whether you like it or not.

The reason SE gave us melee skill was so we could fill in as an opener to some skill chains when there is no one else available to do it. It also helps RDM/WAR tank VT-lowIT, which most any party can chain pretty easily.

It's funny how most of the people who complain about RDM melee have never played RDM. The rest are people who play RDM, but just can't seem to melee without screwing up their other jobs in the party.

Here's some advice, if you are the main healer, don't melee unless it's below VT- for you. Don't melee any ITs with dangerous AOEs. Keep your club skill capped along with dagger and sword, Moonlight and a Lilith Wand can give all the magic users in your PT an extra 40 MP. If you equip a low damage/low delay weapon (like Beestinger) you can really stack up the en-spell damage without giving the mob any TP as long as the weapon does 0 damage. Mobs do not gain TP from en-spell damage, only from the physical weapon damage.

Most parties you join will be setup with the intent of RDM being on the back line. If you decide to melee in a party that's not expecting it be prepared for some complaints. If you really want to melee, find out the best party setups, enemies, camps, etc. for it and make your own parties with that in mind. Make sure your melee gear is at least as good as other melee your level. Use /equip macros to swap between melee and casting gear.

If you think SE is going to nerf RDM melee, keep dreaming. LOL

[neighbortaru]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

um, if you're swinging enough to get TP to be in the skillchain, then you are not doing your primary job. unless your one of those RDM who refuse to cast with a wand or Ele staff.

[Pitlourde]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

um, if you're swinging enough to get TP to be in the skillchain, then you are not doing your primary job. unless your one of those RDM who refuse to cast with a wand or Ele staff.

If I'm supposed to be in on the skill chain, then I am doing my primary job. What good does a wand or staff do for Refresh? If NIN, DRK and PLD can melee and cast, there is no reason why a RDM can't cast and melee. Especially, when it helps chain mobs faster. If you honestly think that a party's XP is measured by whether the mages melee or not you've been playing the game with blinders on.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

so that's all you do as RDM huh? refresh...

and no leader in his right mind will put a RDM in the skillchain. that's plain idiotic. there are other jobs more suited to do damage (and build TP) than a RDM. heck, why don't you include the WHM in the SC while you're at it, they have a B+ in clubs.

[Vinen]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I was ready to slit this Red Mages Throat in a XP group last night. She hit 41, got Refresh, you had to "ask" her for refresh. Not to mention she was up there meleeing flys. I loved watching her life half whenever the AE went off. Then again the retarded WHM was up there healing under the fly..................god

I asked the RDM polietly to stop meleeing, backoff and do her job... and she went off on me... telling me I had no idea how to play a RDM... Needless to say, I left the group at the end of the chain... ohh yeah that chain was #1...................................................................................................................

[Jei]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Meleeing as Rdm is really situational yea. :x It's by no means what a PT invite Rdms for. But do they mind? Seriously, the melee itself is not what they care. The PT cares if the Rdm does his other tasks effectively such as enfeeble, dispel, refresh, mp conserving and etc.

Meleeing while doing everything else is not hard. However 1 thing that most newer Rdm fails to manage is the MP management. They pull out there sword, enfeeble and refresh alright but they never stop even if their MP goes close to 0 and convert's not even ready to use.

Rdm can melee but they have to know when to stop and sit. MP management is also part of Rdm's task too not just casting spells.

I personally found meleeing after 51 in exp PT annoying myself. Because of all the elemental staffs I carry with me makes me switch my weapon everytime I cast any spells. Pretty much every single spell I switch to my elemetal staffs. Macor my sword back on, and I only get to swing once or twice and I have to recast some spells ie switching my weapon again.It's not even fun, it's tiring and annoying.

[tazirai]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I dont even carry My elemental staffs much.
The only two I use are Apollo and Pluto staves. I had them all , but couldnt warrant their usage so sold em. Now if I go back to BLM to 60+ I'll get them again 100%. But even going thru most missions, I get better use from the two i have the other Mp staves.

[Jei]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

well this is my experience. I went to PT once and forgot my ice staff. I had to cast paralyse like 5+ times to stick on dhalmels :x With ice staff it's usually 1-2 casts. It's much more annoying without staffs for me. I won't risk myself not carry wind staff especially for my silence/gravity are the must stick spell. Same with sleep but everyone carries dark staff.

[Icemage]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

RDMs who don't carry earth, ice, wind, and dark staves with them in XP parties post-51 are doing themselves a huge disservice. Then with +6 enfeebling skill from merits, it's tough to land enfeebles on IT++ enemies. Staves make it a lot easier, and a lot more consistent. As all post-refresh RDM know, it's all about MP conservation so you can make it to the next convert cycle.


Icemage

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Moved to RDM forum.

[tazirai]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Yeah RDM and BLM shoul dcarry the staves I agree, Most Sumomners, especially newer ones should carry also, especially if they cant manage MP well.
BUT for me I find two staves cover me well in 80% of my adventures.

[Pitlourde]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

so that's all you do as RDM huh? refresh...

and no leader in his right mind will put a RDM in the skillchain. that's plain idiotic. there are other jobs more suited to do damage (and build TP) than a RDM. heck, why don't you include the WHM in the SC while you're at it, they have a B+ in clubs.

You probably don't even know everything that a RDM can do.

That's fine, if that party leader wants to sit around making 4 other people wait an hour or longer for a tank or SC opener or whatever. A well equipped, macroed and played RDM can fill any of those roles in a party with ease.

Yeah, and why not have the WHM use a WS? If the mob is safe enough and you have RDM and WHM why not have them do their own SC? You afraid they might upstage the "uber 1337 DDers" and make them feel even more useless?

Double Post Edited:

RDMs who don't carry earth, ice, wind, and dark staves with them in XP parties post-51 are doing themselves a huge disservice. Then with +6 enfeebling skill from merits, it's tough to land enfeebles on IT++ enemies. Staves make it a lot easier, and a lot more consistent. As all post-refresh RDM know, it's all about MP conservation so you can make it to the next convert cycle.


Icemage

Why can't a RDM carry all the staves and a sword and a dagger and a wand?

BTW, If you insist on only leveling on IT++ don't complain when your xp/hour sucks.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

You probably don't even know everything that a RDM can do.

haha cute

That's fine, if that party leader wants to sit around making 4 other people wait an hour or longer for a tank or SC opener or whatever. A well equipped, macroed and played RDM can fill any of those roles in a party with ease.

err, how long do you really have to wait for a DD?
have you ever parsed the damage a respectable melee does compared to yourself. even with Enspells, it's not close. unless you start sacrificing MP food for Attack+ food. yuck.

Yeah, and why not have the WHM use a WS? If the mob is safe enough and you have RDM and WHM why not have them do their own SC? You afraid they might upstage the "uber 1337 DDers" and make them feel even more useless?

because there's this thing called MP conservation... you know for these things we call XP chains. swinging needlessly (cause you will connect once in a blue moon) is really bad for it. oh and the damage bit from above.

Why can't a RDM carry all the staves and a sword and a dagger and a wand?

and how, pray tell, are you going to be able to build TP with all that weapon swapping?

btw, please don't tell me you've gotten this whole RDM is a good melee/tank/DD bit from Airspirit, Aphrasia and Purraj... orz