Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

[Balfree]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

dont melee as a mage, at all

little added damage you say? what about mob getting free tp on your 1 and 2's ?

not worth it

there are some moments when a mage can and should melee, but most of the time.. do your job.

[Sepukku]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Theres are times when I wish PTs werent misconcieved like this. Theres are periods of 30-45 seconds almost every mob when I have nothing better to do but just stand there. I carry Life Belt, Amemit Mantle, Puissance/Venerer Ring combo, etc, with me anyways, why not let me macro them in and go to town? I can hit for 15-25 on ITs not counting Enspell damage. Do I melee in XP PTs? No, but if you're good, I say go for it. Equipment Macroes from Mage <--> Melee gear is a must though. Need lots of ACC too. My melee gear for soloing has +16 ACC only sort-of gets the job done (~2/3, 66%, accuracy Id guesS)

[Icemage]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Odd. I spend that extra 30-45 seconds resting for MP. Even as a Tarutaru with the proverbial "perfect" HP/MP ratio, Refresh/Convert just barely lets me keep up with all the standard duties (Refresh, debuffs, backup cures, etc). Might be because I've been partying with really horrible WHMs lately, but still, having extra MP in the tank is never a bad thing. At worst case I can chain nuke when convert is almost ready to burn up any extra MP I've gotten from resting, which is way more damage than I'll ever see from melee. Not to say meleeing is necessarily bad, but it certainly feels pretty pointless to me since around level 30.

Still, I don't see how lowering RDM sword skill will affect anything, you'll just see the same "red warriors" running around with daggers instead of swords. Good players will adjust their playstyle as they hit the convert/refresh stage. Bad players won't.


Icemage

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Out of all the jobs, I think RDMs suck the most. What I mean is, there is more bad RDMs than any other job... RDMs can get by being crappy as long as they refresh, and they are always in demand... they get away with murder ;x.

[Sepukku]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Its different at my level RDM than your RDM level Icemage -.- Dark Staff really helps with MP when I rest when were not fighting so I dont need to rest midfight. Also allows me to react to a Dispellable mob buff quicker or an enfeeble wearring off.

Another reason I have free time is equipment I have access to that you dont yet (AF, Star Necklace, Peace Ring) provides almost 100 more MP. Overall I have +111 MP. Bringing me to ~760 MP with food (Sweet Rice Cake --> +INT, +MND, +hHP, +hMP, +VIT, +17 MP, +EVA).

The other RDM races fall in the 500-600 range at this level unless their equipment is godly. To catch me in MP they need a Serket Ring, Astral Ring, Astral Earring, Powerful Rope, etc and a bulk MP food (Rolanberry Pie, Marron Glace). However these races need to focus efforts on stats too and cant afford to waste all their slots/food on MP-only items. Elvaans need INT, Mithrans need MND, Humes need a little of both but not as much needed as either, Galkans...orz.

[Kafeen]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I'm with IceMage on this one. What with buffs, debuffs and any support healing any little time I have left is spend sitting in the vain attempt to be sat down long enough to get a tick or 2 of MP, although normally be the time I sit down I see "Valega's Refresh effect has wore off" and I get straight back up and start over again.

While the Dark Staff does give a little extra MP I rarely have time to sit to see any of it since it takes 20 seconds before the first tick, most parties I'm in have very little downtime between fights and refresh cycles often fall then or they're used for other buffs, leaving fight time left for debuffs then maybe another buff cycle depending on the length of the fight.

[Discordian]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

RDM sword is B flat not B- or B+ as is dagger skill. Redmage caps out at Sword and Dagger 250 at the endgame of 75 before merit which is 26 points behind Paladin's max of 276. Considering 1H Sword is not a high powered weapon untill you hit the high damage weapons such as Gluttony and Company Sword (which a rdm can't even use) it wouldn't be too terrible to raise rdm sword up to a B+ or A- skill. A rdm doesn't have high damaging WS untill subbing drk and isn't able to end skillchains well but a rdm can start them which gives you more skillchain possibility. By level 60 rdm melee will have taken its big nosedive and then will need to adjust unless they get really radical on equipment and even then the different in equipment between pld/war/drk and rdm/nin/brd sword classes is as clear as pistol and rifle.

[Effect]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

What exactly is the job of Red Mage then? People are talking about people not knowing how to play the class but from what I can recall Red Mages can heal, nuke, debuff, and melee. So are they suppose to ignore all the other skills and focus on just one? If that was the case wouldn't they rather play another class since being a Red Mage means being able to do all those things and that's why the player decided to play that class?

[lionx]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

What exactly is the job of Red Mage then? People are talking about people not knowing how to play the class but from what I can recall Red Mages can heal, nuke, debuff, and melee. So are they suppose to ignore all the other skills and focus on just one? If that was the case wouldn't they rather play another class since being a Red Mage means being able to do all those things and that's why the player decided to play that class?

Role: Refresh whore.

That is unfortunetly the main reason why most people invite them. Otherwise i am sure people pre-refresh patch can tell you how loved RDM is.

[Pounce]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

RDM is a support job. It supports the party wherever needed.

It boosts the tank's staying power by healing (extending HP) and enfeebling (making the mob deal less damage over time). It also helps the tank hold hate by refreshing (PLD can cast more spells, and needs to rest less allowing for more WS usage) and/or hasting (more crucial for WAR or NIN tanks who depend more on damage to hold hate).

It reduces downtime by extending the mages' MP pool by acting as a MP battery (refresh).

It allows for faster kills by Dispelling mob buffs, hasting the melee DDs, and even magic bursting. Heck, even meleeing falls into here too.

RDM has a LOT of tools at his disposal. The trick is to be able to know when, where, and how to use each ability.

Unfortunately, a lot of RDM don't know. They use certainl tools when it's inappopriate to do so, and don't use certain tools when they are desperately needed.

The most common scenario of this problem is meleeing when they can't afford to, and not casting critical spells when they should be.

[Jonnyram]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Out of all the jobs, I think RDMs suck the most. What I mean is, there is more bad RDMs than any other job... RDMs can get by being crappy as long as they refresh, and they are always in demand... they get away with murder ;x.

Are you even playing the same game as us? How you can defame any job with such words is bizarre, but especially RDM. You've never partied with a BLM who overnukes, a DRK that goes afk for minutes at a time during fights, a BRD that doesn't bother refreshing the PLD, a NIN that only uses blink, a WHM without erase? Come on...

There's no problem with RDM meleeing, as long as it's the right kind of enemy and as long as they fulfil their other roles. That's the key point. Don't melee against an enemy with dangerous abilities, and don't melee if you haven't done all the debuffing and buffing you should. There's nothing wrong with giving TP to a crawler or crab for the reward of a WS and possible skillchain.

[Nodachi]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I think it would be funny myself to see them nerf their sword skill setting it back again, forcing those who earned Savage Blade to no longer be able to use it :D

I agree with Jonny here though. Idealy in EXP situations, if a RDM is completing all their enfeebles, all their hastes, all their refreshes and still have time to melee, there's nothing wrong with it. If you're so concerned about an EXP mob getting too much TP from a RDM, then you're taking entirely too long to kill a single EXP mob. RDM may not have the ACC or ATTK full fledged Melee get but they do get nifty EN spells. Basically making a RDM who melees a DoT spell to the extreme. More damage is more damage. Nuff Said.

[Jei]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

When I attack in exp PT I don't call it meleeing. I call it skill up ^^v

[Tomoh]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

So true Jei.

[Icemage]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Its different at my level RDM than your RDM level Icemage -.- Dark Staff really helps with MP when I rest when were not fighting so I dont need to rest midfight. Also allows me to react to a Dispellable mob buff quicker or an enfeeble wearring off.

Another reason I have free time is equipment I have access to that you dont yet (AF, Star Necklace, Peace Ring) provides almost 100 more MP. Overall I have +111 MP. Bringing me to ~760 MP with food (Sweet Rice Cake --> +INT, +MND, +hHP, +hMP, +VIT, +17 MP, +EVA).

The other RDM races fall in the 500-600 range at this level unless their equipment is godly. To catch me in MP they need a Serket Ring, Astral Ring, Astral Earring, Powerful Rope, etc and a bulk MP food (Rolanberry Pie, Marron Glace). However these races need to focus efforts on stats too and cant afford to waste all their slots/food on MP-only items. Elvaans need INT, Mithrans need MND, Humes need a little of both but not as much needed as either, Galkans...orz.

I just hit level 51 on Red Mage tonight, and while Dark Staff is nice... you have to be resting to benefit from it, and there just isn't a whole lot of time to do that as a RDM since you're constantly in a refresh cycle if there are 4 or more spellcasters in the party.

My current MP gear (when converting):

Morian Tathlum +4
Enhancing Earring +5
Devotee's Mitts +8
Inferno Sabots +10
Astral Ring +25
Mana Ring +15 (I actually have a second Astral, but I don't use it usually since it often leaves me with more MP than HP, which is counterproductive)
Frog Trousers +20
Powerful Rope +20
Holy Phial +9
Trump Crown +21

Total +MP: +137 (+147 when using Astral Ringx2)

Depending on what subjob I'm using, this usually leaves me with around 660-680HP/MP, somewhat less if I'm /BRD (but that comes with benefits of its own).

It's still not enough to keep up with a good party if there's 4 spellcasters, and is barely adequate with 3.


Icemage