Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

[Jei]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

and what exactly that these "Melee Rdms" need to improove? Whenever we talk about melee RDMs, we always get to the same solution. "If they can keep up with their spell casting then we don't mind them melee" right?

Seriously. Step back, play other jobs, lead your own PTs and start inviting different Rdms. You can really tell when you have a bad RDM as oppose to the good one. And no, meleeing is not what makes a RDM bad or good, it's how they cast their spells AND manage their MP that count.

So why not just make a guide how to *cast* like a good Rdm? If you can do it while you melee, then you're the good one. Plain and simple. Wanna boost your damage while you melee? That stuff doesn't need a guide, you can read about that in any DD forum. It's not important enough for a RDM to even bother writing a guide.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Jei Should change his title from Super Moderator to Thread Silencer.

[blazeofglory]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Sadly, many new rdm's out there are giving us a bad name by melee'ing in exp pts. I personally melee'd until 41, however i always asked my pt if it was ok to do so. What most rdms dont get is that after 41 however when you get refresh, you actually have a job to do. Currently im a lvl 64 rdm and i dont melee in exp pts EVER only because i find that i do a much better job sitting in the back and playing the caster. My advice would be to keep rdms who melee in exp pts however if they are rude kick em and if their meleeing is affecting their job perfomance tell them and they should make a change, if not kick them too

[Icemage]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

The point about kicking bad RDMs should be stressed.

I see a lot of people who whine about how bad the people(including RDMs) they party with are, yet continue to allow them to stay in the party, even when they're the party leader, because it's "too much effort" to find a replacement, or because they lack the guts to call someone out and tell them they suck at playing their job. You're not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by allowing these people to continue XPing with you.

Anyone who allows bad players to remain in their parties for the sake of expediency ("Well, SOME xp is better than NO xp...") forfeits the right to complain about such people, as far as I'm concerned. If their performance is so bad that it's hindering your party effectiveness, speak up and say so, and if they don't fix what they're doing wrong, either kick them or go find a better party yourself.


Icemage

[Hyrist]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

So why not just make a guide how to *cast* like a good Rdm? If you can do it while you melee, then you're the good one. Plain and simple. Wanna boost your damage while you melee? That stuff doesn't need a guide, you can read about that in any DD forum. It's not important enough for a RDM to even bother writing a guide.

This is where I dissagree. While referring to a DD guide may assist in researching our own damage, there are more factors involved than in a normal DD, and most "Bad Melee RDMs" Dont have the common sence to go do that themselves. They'll go to the RDM Fourms, ask "H0wzor d[] I meleez?" Get cussed out by all mage style rdms, as far as being told to quit the job and go drk. Then they get bitter and do it incorrectly confident in their efforts of being non 'cookie cutter'

With a RDM Hybrid Style guide to show newer Rdms how to incoporate Melee into a RDM stragity and do it well. All anyone has to do from that point is just post up a link and say "Go here, but parties really dont like you meleeing"

My guide its going to be craploaded full of disclaimers stating the difficulty level of the tenique and to emphsize that mage duities come first.

I'm also putting a casting style guide in too (dispite what people think, I enjoy backline as well or more than I do meleeing as a rdm)

Both of them will have a full Macro set guide and how to develop them through the levels...

Which is why its taking me so bloody long >.<

The point about kicking bad RDMs should be stressed.

I agree with this, under the juristiction of 'when available'.

Quite simply, for the party's sake, look for a replacement before you kick the rdm. It speeds things up nicely and people have less troubles. Somtimes you really do get stuck with the only rdm within 3 levels that are seeking and he's terrible. (I have played other jobs, between subjob leveling and my Fiance's White mage) In that case, I go looking for a Brd. Differnt style of help but generally the same support is given.

I agree with Icemage in the fact that many people settle for less. Of course I do stress that a level of courtiousy should be attempted first before you go out threatening to kick someone or just kicking them out of the blue. Same goes for leaving.

To be frank I'd rather be with a poor player who's friendly and willing to work on changing his/her stragity for that party, then a great player with a poor attitude and a stuck-up nature. Generally the friendly ones will get much better when they adjust.

[Vinen]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

No Idea why you have to weapon gear swap in XP parties... you really shouldn't be getting resisted that much.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

I agree with Icemage in the fact that many people settle for less. Of course I do stress that a level of courtiousy should be attempted first before you go out threatening to kick someone or just kicking them out of the blue. Same goes for leaving.

To be frank I'd rather be with a poor player who's friendly and willing to work on changing his/her stragity for that party, then a great player with a poor attitude and a stuck-up nature. Generally the friendly ones will get much better when they adjust.

I agree. I'm so sick and tired of people that act like a-holes just because they have rank 10 or one or more jobs at 75. I am always polite and try to /t the person first with advice or questions. If they get nasty to me or refuse to change what they are doing, then I msg the leader and tell him what happened in the /t's. I ask the leader to do something. If the leader doesn't do anything, then I will say something in the pt. If the person still refuses to adapt, then I give them a time limit until I'm leaving. I let them know why I'm leaving also. If they ask me to find a replacement (something I don't believe in doing since its the leader's job), I will refuse to.

I've stayed in pt's where the exp is less than stellar but the pt members were fun to be with. Games are entertainment, not jobs. If I'm not being entertained then its time to do something about it.

[Jei]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Anyone who allows bad players to remain in their parties for the sake of expediency ("Well, SOME xp is better than NO xp...") forfeits the right to complain about such people, as far as I'm concerned. If their performance is so bad that it's hindering your party effectiveness, speak up and say so, and if they don't fix what they're doing wrong, either kick them or go find a better party yourself.

I usually leave myself when I can't stand some members in the group. I got into arguement pretty often (with other Rdm specificly)

Once I was a BRD playing in Yutanga. RDM was meleeing and insist being the puller too. I didn't care at first that we fight mandragora. However once we started to try goblins, it got realllllly hard with only BRD healing. I asked the Rdm to stay back for ballad and that we needed his MP, I got replies like "you're a taru so play like a caster I'm a hume let me melee." "I bought my expensive sword not to let it hang on my side." No question I left the PT.

whem I'm a member it's not much problem, I always leave when such arguement happens. However when im a leader I often got /t in the backgroup "this guy's gear sucks" for example "kick him or I'm out" -_-''

[Hyrist]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Once I was a BRD playing in Yutanga. RDM was meleeing and insist being the puller too. I didn't care at first that we fight mandragora. However once we started to try goblins, it got realllllly hard with only BRD healing. I asked the Rdm to stay back for ballad and that we needed his MP, I got replies like "you're a taru so play like a caster I'm a hume let me melee." "I bought my expensive sword not to let it hang on my side." No question I left the PT.

While there are differances in race shown for rdm (Like the Larger Taru Mana Pool... /envy) I really agree with you leaving that party. The least the Hume RDM could have done was alternate to alow him more MP.

Commonly in a BRD and PLD party I typically stand behind the PLD (untill there is a THF going for SATA) So I catch generally the same Buffs as s/he does. It provides the correct balance when I am meleeing.

Typically with me and a BRD in party I really feel as if its more ok to melee as long as I stay in Range of Ballad and make sure my MP pool is healthy. When there are two scorces of MP regeneration it opens up alot more freedome to play. Of course while splitting the healing duites with a BRD its probley better to sit back and keep healing. (With the exception of my dagger MP maitnence stragity for /blm but thats a completly differnt story all together.)

Seriously though, knowing when to take sugestions from your fellow members really does help everything flow better. But its a two way street, and learning when to make sugestions of your own, granted courtiously, also helps the party better in the long run.

[Killagouge]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

Back when I played a RDM, I would always clear it with the party first if I could Melee/cast, I usually just meleed untill I was capped, then go to just casting. I ran into very few people who complained.

[Zaltana]

Re: Nerfing RDM's sword rating...

i meleed in exp parties all the way to 60. hardly ever had any problems. some can handle it some cant. i'll admit i fell behind a few times (hey im not perfect). but i still did my job and well. even saved the party with a well saved "spirits within". but i would only melee long as it took to keep my sword skill maxed out. i love to solo so, natually, it helps to be at my best at all times.