ninjutsu support question

[Taskmage]

rdm/nin question. How useful are the level 15 ninjutsu spells in helping debuffs stick and enhancing MB damage? Would it make a significant difference, for example, to use a Raiton on an Antica before trying to Slow it?

Similar question for the nin debuff spells. How good are Kurayami, Jubaku, and others at the level you'd get them with a subjob? Do they stack with their MP-using equivalents?

[Jubbermuffin]

I won't get into the big "RDM/NIN sucks in parties" debate, plenty of others here will do that for me.

However from my own observations, playing RDM/NIN in parties, the elemental debuffs DO help with MB damage, not a massive amount but a few extra points of damage, rather like BRD thenodies. You won't be saying "whoa I just nuked for 4000!!!!!" or anything, but you'll probably notice a slight increase in your MB output (and RDM MB needs all the help it can get imo ).

As for helping to stick debuffs, in theory that should work, but it's unlikely you'll need to do that. Keeping enfeebling skill capped is usually enough to land debuffs first try on ITs unless they have particular resistance to an element, and later on in the game you can pick up +enfeebling skill equipment to provide extra help.

However, don't play RDM/NIN just for elemental debuffs. :sweat:

[Apple Pie]

rdm/nin question. How useful are the level 15 ninjutsu spells in helping debuffs stick and enhancing MB damage?

What these -ton spells basically do is lowering the elemental resistance (-30) while they do a little damage (maximum 20 dmg with Ichi and 80 dmg with Ni). Therefore, it just helps your MB to do full damage. It doesn't increase your firepower though.

Would it make a significant difference, for example, to use a Raiton on an Antica before trying to Slow it?

I tried casting Huton before RDM/WHM cast Paralyze while leveling NIN but I didn't see an improvement. I rather used it on MB for fun

How good are Kurayami, Jubaku, and others at the level you'd get them with a subjob? Do they stack with their MP-using equivalents?

They (e.g., Kurayami & Blind) don't stack. Also, subbing NIN means your Ninjyutsu skill is halved. Suppose you RDM60/NIN30 is fighting with EM (=LV60). They don't land since your skill is capped at LV30.

Well, as far as I see, Kurayami is better than Blind. As for Hojo, we can't directly compare it with Slow because the delay caused by Slow is dependent on our MND. Hojo Ichi adds 12-13% delay and Hojo Ni adds 18-19% but Slow does max 30% (min 15%) when MND of caster is 80+. Finally, as for Jubaku, I feel it's almost the same as Paralyze.

[Ruic]

If you're playing a RDM/NIN you should be using two wands, and a lot of other stat adjustment equipment which should nearly remove any chance of resist.

I've never experienced any better performance of my debuffs with ninjutsu debuffs landing first, but at the same time my resist rate is well below 5%, and I haven't experimented with this thoroughly. I'd go out on a limb and say it makes little difference for debuffs, as I have noticed little change in resistance to debuffs while using resists. Perhaps Enfeebling and Elemental work on different resist calculations.

I do have a question for Apple Pie though, since he seems to have great information on numbers and such...

Does Magic Attack Bonus calculate into Ninjutsu damage? Or is there a statistic that determines the effectiveness of it? I am assuming there has to be since my level 30 NIN casting Hyoton = ~20-25 damage, my level 43 RDM casting Hyoton = ~40-45 damage.

I also question because of the few NIN/BLMs I've seen active in Ballista, but they are always Japanese, so I can't ask them anything...

[Apple Pie]

Interesting. I haven't check that yet but basically Magic Atk. Bonus is a multiplier.

Magic Atk Bonus I : x 1.20
Magic Atk Bonus II: x 1.24

Moldavite Earring: Adds +0.05 to the multiplier.

If 43 RDM ninjyutsu spells do twice dmg as 30 NIN, the bonus must affect them but in a different way from our magic spells. I'm going to test that at Ronfaure.

[Patchinko]

I've heard that INT directly affects the damage associated with the elemental jutsu. Since your 43RDM no doubt has far more INT than your 30NIN, I think it's definately a possible explanation.

One of you could test it out for yourself and find out if that's true once and for all (I'm looking at you, Grendel...^^).

[Apple Pie]

Just came back from some experiments. I used Hyoton Ichi and casted it on Wild Rabbits on Eastern Ronfaure with various job combos.

RDM66/NIN33 without INT boost: 52 damage
RDM66/NIN33 with +22 INT: 52 damage
RDM66/NIN33 with Ice Staff: 57 damage

NIN37/THF18 without INT boost: 37 damage

BLM34/NIN17 without INT boost: 47 damage
BLM34/NIN17 with +1 INT: 48 damage

Well, both RDM66 and BLM34 has up to Magic Attack Bonus II (RDM40 and BLM30) and it seems to me that Ruic's guess is correct.

Patchinko's info seems to be correct, too. I don't know why RDM66 with +22 INT does the same as the one with no INT boost but I think max. damage is capped at 52 for me.

So, NIN60+/BLM30+ combo doesn't sound weird in Ballista.

[Prefect]

The regular Black Magic Elemental nukes have an INT cap based on how much your INT exceeds the target's INT, as explained in the damage formula thread over in the BLM forum. So I wouldn't be surprised to see Ninjutsu to behave the same way.