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**Ruic** · 07-10-2004, 01:25 AM

Re: Some specific RDM questions

Originally posted by Drezial

I'm confused on several things that aren't really touched on.

First, having been reading, I understand bio and dia do NOT stack.

Correct.

So, which is more useful? And also, why is it not common knowledge amongst most the rdm's I play with on my server, who insist on casting bio after I dia? Is it something I'm not understanding? And why, when I tell them to not cast bio as per it's not stacking with dia, do they blink slowly and cast bio?

Dia I and Bio I are nearly worthless... Go with Dia for it being cheaper to cast. When you have Dia II and Bio II, you'll almost exclusively want to use Dia II when you have 3 people doing melee damage or more, and Bio II if you're relying on mages or 2 or less melees. People don't learn because they're lazy. I know a level 50 RDM who didn't know paralyze and slow were white magic, and that MND actually affected those debuffs. I couldn't believe it.

Also, what sorts of equipment should I be going after as a rdm? Does it depend on what level I am?

Hairpins, armored chests, gloves with stats not defense, armored pants, boots with stats. You want a sword AND a wand. This is for earlier levels, for 30-50 read the post Gear Question on this forum.

Should I bother with mind up gear? Since healing caps are really low anyways? Or should I pump all my stats into int if at all possible? Or should I be going for straight mp boosts?

Yes. Mind affects slow, paralyze, and dia effectiveness. Try to balance INT and MND. MP boosts are something to use your personal judgement on.

Staves for the int/mind bonus's, or swords?

Use a wand when casting, sword when meleeing.

Any particular piece of equipment I can get at a low level that I will probably keep for a very long time if not forever?

Yes, the Justice Badge, it lasts until 48. Eremite and Saintly rings also last. Those items are 7, 10, 10 respectively.

Are the bar sleeps worth it?

I'm going to assume you're asking if bar SPELLS in general are worth it. Barelemental spells increase resistance chances and reduce damage. Barstatus spells MOSTLY reduce the duration and to a small extent vulnerability to that status ailment. It does not make you invulnerable, simply quicker to recover.

What spells aren't worth buying?

I hate when someone asks a question like this. Spells are like tools. Sure you may use that standard sized screwdriver most of the time, but sometimes you get that tiny little screw that just won't work and you wish you had other tools. If you're really strapped for cash then you can get away without buying a single barelement or barstatus spell. You can also get by entirely on Enthunder and Enblizzard. Aquaveil sticks out as another low level spell that you may not want. Read what a spell does, and then use your best judgement.

**SharMarali** · 07-10-2004, 05:43 AM

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on Aquaveil not being a useful spell. Granted, in the context of a low level character who doesn't participate in a lot of "difficult" battles (BCNM, HNM, etc) it's not the most valuable spell to have. But if you skip aquaveil now, you'll want to be sure to pick it up at a later level. When you're participating in a battle where seconds count and your spell fails.. You have a lot of friends to answer to when everyone's dead. Using a few MP before entering the battlefield on aquaveil increases the chances of your spells succeeding. In my experience, this works even if you've been hit, which normally tends to interrupt casting about 90% of the time.

One other spell you can live without (FOR AWHILE) would be deodorize. To be honest, in my 75 levels as a RDM, I think this spell may have come in useful for me 2-3 times. But you'll be glad you had it when one of those times rolls around. And again, at lower levels, it's really not so critical. At low levels, you're less likely to get lost in a dungeon or fall in a hole in a dungeon and find yourself directly on top of an active enemy that you must sleep, run away from, and cast deodorize on yourself.

While we're on the subject.. Just a little secret.. I never bought Aero2 for my RDM. Never bought it. At the time, I was saving money for Refresh, which at the time, cost 420k instead of the mere 5k it costs now. That was more money than I had ever seen in my career at that point. So I skipped out on a lot of spells. Aero2 was the one I never bothered to go back and buy once I had purchased Refresh. And you know, it really never came up. The MB was never air, and I don't really use a lot of elemental magic outside of the MB. I did finally wind up buying Aero2 when I was raising my BLM from 37-40. But I never bought it for my RDM. ^^

**bonovoxpsu** · 07-10-2004, 06:53 AM

spells make an rdm. there are some that can wait, but you should keep it in your mind that you are going to want them all eventually.

otherwise, i don't really disagree with the other posts here.

i would emphasis you use bio as much as you can early in the game, that way your dark skill stays somewhat high. i cannot emphasis how nice drain/aspir are. but that would be the rdm/blm path...

gl

**Patchinko** · 07-10-2004, 10:54 PM

For bar spells, I would definately pick up barfire and barsleep, because in leveling other jobs I've noticed an exceptional number of WHMs in the jungles don't have barfira or barsleepra, which is atrocious. I wouldn't count on them having it, and cutting bomb damage and sleep time down in these places is pretty important, so they'd probably be worth it.

I still don't have Diaga or Enwater, though I'll get them eventually. Just use your best judgement and make sure to get the important spells (enfeebling/enhancing, Stoneskin, Phalanx and especially Dispel and Refresh)

**Viev** · 07-11-2004, 05:00 PM

poison II. you can get by without it. I never bought the expensive bar status spells and I've rarely been in the situation where I'm like "Damn, I wish I had bought bar(insert status)"

Equipment wise, it really depends on your style and how your work your equipment macros. If you want to be a perfectionist. Buy absolutely all the +int +mnd +mp gear you can possibly get/afford. You'll need to equip the neccessary stat for each enfeeb. Like wear all your int gear for gravity, and wear all your mnd gear for paralyze.

**Drezial** · 07-11-2004, 07:51 PM

Thank you all VERY much for the answers and help.

I want to apologize, I did NOT mean to sound like I wasn't ever going to buy those spells. I just wanted to know which I should prioritize my saving gil for, so that I didn't go "Well gee whizz, I don't have refresh but I AM resistant to several forms of enfeebling magic!"

How do you increases your inventory slots so I can afford to carry about more gear and switch between it?

Should I melee? Or should I stick to not fighting so I can med back mana if I need to?

Another I'm going to look into is the whole RDM/NIN thing. I know normally that subbing a non-mage with a mage is kind of a poor choice, but Ruic really has me thinking about this.

I'm going to go check and see/read if their are any existing RDM/NIN topics, as well as RDM/DRK (I don't think RDM/PLD will be worth while...) to see what's on the up and up with them, but if Ruic would like to talk about it, I'd love to listen.

-R

**ifandbut** · 07-11-2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by SharMarali
At the time, I was saving money for Refresh, which at the time, cost 420k instead of the mere 5k it costs now.

WOW

When did Refresh cost 420k? Before the NA ship? Before Rise of Zilart? When?
And to think that at 40 I was saying that Refresh should cost more and Phalanx should cost less just because of the usefullness of Refresh.

About the RDM/NIN combo, it is verry intresting. Being Elvaan I dont think I could lose the mp that a BLM or WHM sub gives me, but when I get nin to 30 I might have to give it a try. Ruic...If you could I would like to see a post about your experience with NIN sub. I could see the advantages of having 2 of the best int and mnd up clubs on...I dont think enfeebs would ever be resisted.

**Ruic** · 07-12-2004, 02:03 PM

Well... I'm really flattered, and I'm sure a lot of people are very flustered by the interest in RDM/NIN...

I'll work on a comprehensive post over the next few days, to explain the rationale, mechanics, benefits, and detriments of a RDM/NIN... Or maybe just to post a general guide with insights as to the RDM job.

I can also do the same for RDM/WAR, and I have a levelled RNG sub I can experiment with. But since the question was RDM/NIN, I'll talk about it. RDM/WAR I won't be able to fully test out until the day I have an earth staff, and a kraken club. (Kraken club + Moonlight Spam = New Age Refresh? XD)

Oh... and let me simply say a little bit about RDM/NIN. I am currently level 43 RDM. My RDM is wearing close to 1.3 million gil in equipment. On top of that I have spent hundreds of thousands of gil on shihei, arrows, food, and juices in some cases. This doesn't even count the value of my spells, whether they are red, white, black or ninjutsu. (I know every single spell for RDM and every single Ninjutsu up to 43 RDM and 28 NIN)

I do this to achieve effectiveness. If you're not willing to make such a large investment then you're going to have a lot of trouble with RDM/NIN.

That aside, I'll get to work on it, since it was requested. Odds are I will post a list of questions that some RDMs can help me with to make the guide better...

P.S.: Inventory capacity is increased through a series of quests called Gobbie Bags. There are four of them, and each grants 5 more capacity.

**Patchinko** · 07-12-2004, 04:59 PM

ifandbut, I posted much about my experience as a RDM/NIN for the greater portion of my playtime in this thread:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...4&pagenumber=1
It includes what I thought when I was a lower level RDM/NIN and how my opinions changed as I progressed through the 40s.

Originally posted by Ruic
I do this to achieve effectiveness. If you're not willing to make such a large investment then you're going to have a lot of trouble with RDM/NIN.

It's almost scary how much you sound like I did here.

I posted this on March 21 when I was lvl41 RDM/NIN:

And that brings up the most important thing about the /NIN sub. It is not for the lazy or poor. It will cost you a great deal of money, it will take up a fair amount of you inventory, and it will require you to keep the sub fully leveled. In addition, you'll want to keep your Ninjutsu, Sword and any other weapon you'll be using fully leveled. If you're not interested in keeping your skills up to date, spending a lot of money, and filling your inventory with Ninja Tools, forget it.

On the next page of that thread I explain why I'm no longer a RDM/NIN in a party.

I believe you'll come to the same conclusion on your own since you seem to have the goal of maximum effectiveness much as I do.

When it comes down to it, RDM/NIN only has one equipment advantage over any other RDM and it's an extra wand. The extra wand is in exchange for missing out on all the benefits of a mage sub, which are exceptional, especially post-50.

**Ruic** · 07-12-2004, 06:12 PM

I've read your insight into the issue before Patchinko, and I can understand where you're coming from. Maybe it is the people we level with, but I have not only had no problems with my sub in PTs, I've only been encouraged.

I party within my linkshell only... Which are similar to myself in that they're all well equipped, well educated, and we utilize voice communication to make our parties impossibly efficient compared to a normal FFXI party. Furthermore a lot of them are my real-life friends, and we simply have a blast playing this game together.

You say that RDM/NIN loses efficacy in a party. I say it depends on your party. In my current party, I've made it exactly what we need. A RDM who lands his debuffs in one shot, and then helps kill things faster. Chain #6 is your friend.

But if you want to chat about RDM/NIN sometime, then let me know Patchinko. I'd like your insight and information when writing about it.

**Patchinko** · 07-12-2004, 07:47 PM

For reference, I've been in a set PT since the late 30s on my RDM, and they never complained about my subjob either when it was /NIN because much like you I kept my INT and MND as high as possible and didn't have resistance very often.

It was my own decision to level up BLM and try it as a sub since I am the burster in our PT, and I'm very glad that I did because it made me realize that the /NIN sub was offering literally nothing to me in our PT.

I think especially after 51 when you get elemental staves you'll find even the dual weild advantage of /NIN cannot match up to the benefits of a mage sub to a RDM. I honestly don't think a RDM/NIN can be the best RDM in most circumstances from my experience of improvement after switching subjobs.

**Drezial** · 07-12-2004, 08:12 PM

Well, here's my theory on it:

As a rdm/nin, you're basically saying you are going to tank. That becomes your new job. But, you never really give up your enfeebling either. You sort of become a tank who can dispel/enfeeb on their own.

What I'm wondering if, since so much of your mana is devoted to enfeeb/phal/stonesk, do you have time to cast refresh on the party?

Does ninjitsu take mana?

I remember you mentioning how rare it was for your enfeebles to get resisted due to the equipment you use when debuffing, but how do you keep your mana situated so that you don't need downtime inbetween tankings?

One advantage over the nin is that you don't need someone to pull the mob off you once your ninjitsu wears off, since phal/stonesk will make sure you don't get beasted on anyways. And since you can cure yourself, you can obviously keep hate like a paladin can. (Maybe less without provoke, but you DO have a lot of enfeebles to help.)

Also, I'm wondering how much actual damage a ninja tank is dealing anyways. You said you are contributing your 10-15% of the monsters life, and really that seems fairly good considering you're tanking, and not attacking. Leave the damage dealing to the mon/rng/blm. But, what about WS? Don't you lose Red Lotus Blade? What do you use as it's replacement in skill chains?

Also, do you keep yourself hasted? How does this affect your effectiveness in the party?

The mana thing is a big deal to me, since I don't want people waiting on me if I don't need them too. Since you're not a /whm, you can't convert/divine seal cure4 for free mana. How do you deal with that?

Which food do you rock out with? Meat kabobs for attack? The defensive ones? Or mana regenning ones? As a blink tank, I'd figure the defensive ones not being too totally important.

The main arguement I see against rdm/nin is how everyone says your job is to be a caster.

As rdm/nin, that's not really your job anymore. You're a tank.

How does rdm/nin compare tanking wise to nin/war or war/ or pld/war? Damage wise, ability to keep aggro, ability to stay alive while tanking, and ability to contribute to the party outside of taking the hits?

Thanks in advance.

Also, where could I go to find out information about the gobby quests? I'd like to do them as soon as I possibly can. I love inventory space, as I tend to exp for long extended periods of time without returns to town, and I'd like to start carrying items/food.

Also, should I bother with bow skill regardless of if I go rdm/whm, rdm/blm, or rdm/nin?

-R

**Apple Pie** · 07-12-2004, 08:37 PM

There is no way the job without provoke can tank. Just go to Valkurm Dunes with three frontliners who don't have it. You can't pull the hate out of mages at all resulting in mages being killed first.

**AtraposBLM** · 07-12-2004, 10:28 PM

Ruic said that he tanks in order to set up sneak/trick attack onto the real tank.

I would imagine, however, that relatively soon, you won't be able to land ninjitsu debuffs anymore...so the only advantage is the dual wielded club and the temporary tanking you do off the bat.

1 - since you're a ninja sub, your base int/mnd are lower, so the advantage of dual wielding clubs is reduced.

2 - at 51+, you'll want to be using some elemental staves. 2 handed...can't be dual wielded.

3 - You can tank a few hits just by using Blink (spell), Stoneskin, and Phalanx.

You might be dealing 10-15% of the life of the mob worth of damage...but this number is going to get lower and lower as your level gets higher. The reason being is your damage won't really change (if anything it'll get lower), but mobs will continue to have more and more HP.

Anyways, I'm still rooting for you to at least make it to full AF as rdm/nin.

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Some specific RDM questions

Some specific RDM questions

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