RDM > BLM , WHM in skill

[neosoul]

RDM can easily play white mage and black mage when needed without much effort, so much easier doing only one role
But can white and black mages play the role of the red mage if they were suddenly given the character?

RDM > whm, blm in skill

People just dont give RDM enough credit for what they do.

[Rones]

ROFL, what's the point of this thread? Are you out to start a flame war? And how does someone reach lvl 60 and still make such a neive statement?

[neosoul]

Just pointing out facts, surprisingly a whm replies first. No, my job is not only to refresh you. Which is surprisingly what many whm and blm think these days. I can do your job anyday but can you do mine? This is just to inform your kin of the 6 enfeebles I have to keep stuck on an enemy, and recast when worn, of how i have to make sure I keep an eye on the log for when to dispel, when an opportunity to magic burst comes up, and when to back up heal. Oh yes, also to get refresh up on everyone as well. So yeah, there are the facts. What do you do, heal?

[Tifa]

People like you don't deserve level 60, or any respect.

[neosoul]

Well i have it, so cry you white mage

BTW purpose of this post is to let reinform all those ingorant players of what a red mage's role in a party is, I can't help if you are offended because you fit in the category of who I'm directing the post to

[Tomoh]

We can MB decently, but no where near BLM's -ga MBs. PTs also like Dezone 2 at the end. BLM is necessary to do to do 4~5 skill chains.

As for WHM, having one makes our life easier since we can enfeeble and MB while WHM does curing. Also Protea and Shellga by WHMs are nice. We can do these, but it takes time and MP. Also, Raise 2 and 3 is preferrable to Raise1 that we have.

RDMs are enfeeble and Refresh machines. We can do these better with BLM and/or WHM

I much prefer:

RDM + BLM or RDM + WHM > RDM + RDM

Having said this, my favorite back line set-up is RDM, BRD, BLM.

Why do I get the feeling that I will need to close this thread...

[Tifa]

You seem to be the one whining.

[neosoul]

Tifa is trying to be a whm savior. I'm giving you the bottom line on the roles because ppl like you need it.

White and black mages are funny, they only have one role yet they call it skill. And its even more funny when they suggest how I should play RDM when all they do is heal and nuke.

If you're going to post a smart remark, it better prove my statement wrong.

[Tomoh]

Neosoul, your thread and subsequent posts are certainly flame inducing. I'm closing this and giving you a verbal warning this time.

By popular request by nosoul and others, I'm gonna reopen this. Let the bashing begin.

[Zaleshea]

Re: RDM > BLM , WHM in skill

Originally posted by neosoul
RDM can easily play white mage and black mage when needed without much effort, so much easier doing only one role
But can white and black mages play the role of the red mage if they were suddenly given the character?

RDM > whm, blm in skill

People just dont give RDM enough credit for what they do.

My dear friend.. I think the main problem I see here is, your ego has been inflated by the fact that RDM is priased more than WHM and BLM after say...41..? RDM is not in the least superior to any of the mage jobs. And the skill level is no different from RDM and WHM.

WHM requires *alot* of skill. And *alot* of patience. And curing is not the only thing a WHM is required to do. If no RDM in the party, they should atleast be able to get in dia, and paralyze, or slow, depending on how much "non healing" room they have. WHM's have it rough, even with the -ra and -na spells. It's a stressful job.

Sorry, if you're confused but..

Casting skill > Your jobs role.

You have to know what you are doing.

RDM pre 41 cannot be an effective main healer -AT ALL-, even if your skill with a healer job is excellant.I know this, because I've been forced to be main healer in the last 6 parties I been in. And thats without a BLM and a WHM. Hell I miss both dearly. You NEED thier skill. You CAN'T do it all on your own. I KNOW I wont be able to. Theres always a BRD in the party or some BLM/WHM to backp heal. If you lust for ONE MAN ALL ROLES BY MYSELF Red Mage. Get in a party with no BLM AND WHM AND BRD AND ANOTHER RDM then come back to me talking about skill.

RDM nuking blows hardcore because our spells come so late in the levels. Thus the reason so many usually go /BLM. Wow, you're lv22 and all you can do as far as HARD nuking is Fire. Yea, that's some real skill. Yep.

No.

As for WHM, having one makes our life easier since we can enfeeble and MB while WHM does curing.

Yes being main healer sucks....

RDMs just dont have the mp, that BLMs and WHMs are blessed with.

BLM believe it or not do the most damage period, not YOU. They have to nuke + enfeeb + heal. With all that - requires alot of casting skill on the BLM's part. Later levels when BLM becomes Ancient? It will take mad skill to pull off a Ancient Magic Burst. I have no doubt in my mind.... that even sounds hard to do.

And this is what matters. Casting skill.

You are also level60. At your level it *is* possible to do all that on your own. But I only assure you it is only because 80% of your skill is actually your playing ability as a BLM. In other words, /BLM is saving your ass. To that effect, you're dissing one of the jobs that made you into a effective RDM(if you are) in the first place. Suprizing that you are even like this at such a high level...

I've singled you out from the rest of the RDMs, because you possess a certain attitude that disgusts me, and quite frankly am tired of. That is not a flame.

Yes I was a whm main user. BLM main user too, Im defending both. Took the job of RDM main because I could no longer decide what was appropriate for me. I also wanted to understand RDMs better, as I hated them for so long thanks to those who have attitudes like you. Do change it, it is not neccessary. Those who use BLM and WHM take great pride in thier jobs. Only they know how hard/easy it is for them. To say that you have better skill than them because you can fill in any of thier spots and do thier jobs easier than then because you have multiple roles, is like saying - SE might as well ditch both jobs. What is RDM without..../BLM, /WHM...? This often hurts the feelings of most whm - blms users who experience such attitudes and bigotry towards them. They spend so much money on spells and often have to wear crappy armor as a result, just to maintain thier job. This lack of respect FOR THEM is uncalled for on your part.

People just dont give RDM enough credit for what they do.

RDMs have alot of my respect and it grows each time I pt. RDMs are cursed with no -na and -ra spells. Skill comes with knowing when to convert and LIVE and proper usage of refresh and enfeebles. The rest is just learning to have patience. Casting SHELL on a 6 man pt is alittle frustrating.

And many people like RDMs in general. Even if it is just because the "after 41" bandwagon. It's enough to feel appreciated for all the non group spell casting hell.

Just pointing out facts, surprisingly a whm replies first. No, my job is not only to refresh you. Which is surprisingly what many whm and blm think these days. I can do your job anyday but can you do mine? This is just to inform your kin of the 6 enfeebles I have to keep stuck on an enemy, and recast when worn, of how i have to make sure I keep an eye on the log for when to dispel, when an opportunity to magic burst comes up, and when to back up heal. Oh yes, also to get refresh up on everyone as well. So yeah, there are the facts. What do you do, heal?

You're supposed to do all of that.

As for your question.

Yes. I'm doing it. Part of it. I will be doing it fully, when I reach 41.

As for last question.

Again no.


On a side note.. dont try to use my characters levels against me with the old statement of "You're just a low level, who thinks they know everything". What you're getting is what I know up to 20-40. Those RDMs who are higher or at your level, can prove you wrong in thier own way.

Because I know what they have to do. Because I been down parts of thier roads. Never will I say, I'm better than them cause they have one role, etc. And never will I place myself above them because of the abilities I will aquire in my leveling. They can do it better than I can, and if they play thier ONE ROLE jobs according you right, my life as a RDM will be all the more easier. RDMs make BLM and WHM jobs easier, by being backup healer, and act as another nuker. Lots of MP management. We three depend on each other for our skills and abilities.

This is all I wanted to say.

I'm gonna reopen this.

/bow ^_^

[Kilgraw]

Pfft, this was the thread I missed out on? I was hoping for sort of intelligent rant. There's nothing of the sort in here... I'm rather disappointed.

[Drynavere]

Neosoul...this is coming from a fellow RDM of yours, and I must say....Learn to shut your mouth when you need to!

Nobody gives a rats ass whether or not RDM has more to do than WHM or BLM.... Hell, PLD does dick all in parties cept heal himself and attack things, and provoke at necessary times. Thats what...3 things to do right there....does that mean PLD are useless and are easy to play? NO! NOW STFU!

I'm so glad this thread was re-opened.....

But can white and black mages play the role of the red mage if they were suddenly given the character?

Excuse me?... Can you even name more than 3 spells that a RDM can use, that a WHM or BLM CAN'T use in battle to simply replace us?.... The only useful 3 that I can think of are Gravity, Dispel, and Refresh of course. Anything else either someone else can cast, or someone else can replace us with. example: BRD's have a dispel and refresh. It may not be as entertaining as a RDM's, constantly refreshing ppl....cuz he only has to 'sing' it once....but regardless, RDM are MORE than replaceable.

The real question here neosoul, is if YOU... playing a whm or blm could replace a RDM. Without all those fancy spells that RDM get, and the handy dandy convert that Im sure you spam within every 5 seconds its recast time allows you, you would find yourself running low on mp VERY fast.... Therefore being like most other mages, and having to beg for refresh over and over.

Just because you play the class that supports other mages Neosoul, does NOT mean that you can replace the other mages. If you had just a RDM in a party, with no other mages.... (| Take Care. |), because you would be so fucked in battle, you wouldn't have a clue what to do. While you'd be casting paralyze or something with a fairly longer cast time, the tank would get smacked for 300 dmg, and you'd be scrambling to land ur debuffs faster so that u can heal. And while all this would be going on, The melees would be starting the SC, so you'd have to hold on the heals to get ready to time the magic burst.

Let's face it, as all of us mages can realize (except neosoul it would seem).... nobody can REPLACE another mage.... and if ANYTHING is replaceable...its a RDM, with a BRD.

/end of quote. Keep the change....

[LockeCole]

hmm... Black Mages nukes, enfeeble, back up heal, stun(if possible), magic burst, control hate, do status cures. No a [competent] black mages job isn't just to nuke~ contrary to popular belief.

[Karinya]

If you had only one mage in any party above level 10, you'd be screwed no matter what job that mage was. No one character can cover the responsibilities of an entire backline. You need at least enfeebling or enhancing (both is better but you can get along with one) and healing, and if you want to kill at a reasonable rate, you need some MBs too.

Two people can *maybe* pull it off - if they're rdm and whm, rdm and blm (MUST have whm sub in this case but potentially the best if the melees have 2 skillchains), whm and blm, rdm and bard, or maybe whm and bard (would kill very slowly but might be able to stay alive).

Whm and bard is marginal and blm and bard just doesn't have enough healing power vs most mobs - and you can forget smn and anything, even rdm.

However, if you actually have a 3 character backline (no, rangers don't count, even though they may stand far from the monster they don't have any versatility or fill support roles) then there are plenty of workable combinations.

Is it harder to be a decent rdm than to be a crappy blm? Sure. And the crappy blm can still delude himself and maybe even his party into thinking he's doing well. But when you see a *good* blm, hopefully you'll notice the difference (if you're paying attention). I wouldn't say that it's easier to be a good rdm than a good blm.

The same goes for whm too - a half assed one can get away with it somewhat easier than other jobs, but a really good one is still quite a bit better and it isn't easy to do.

No backline job is easy - they all have a wide variety of tools available to them and you have to know what you're doing to make the most efficient use of all of them. No tank job is easy - you have to use all your hate keeping tools to keep things away from your party. Pulling isn't easy - I hope I don't have to explain why. THF isn't easy - you not only have to position yourself but often herd your party into position as well. The only jobs you can really consider easy are non-pulling attackers with no magic and few JAs they actually use. That's monk and, um... maybe dragoon, if you see any of those around anymore.

[Uroboros]

This thread's irrelevant.

It doesn't matter. It's a team game. Doesn't matter if NIN is more complicated than MNK to play, they both have to do their jobs and if one of them doesn't the party suffers.

No one cares about your Refresh/Haste/debuff/heal workload, no one cares that it's a lot. They care if you do it.

As for credit for RDMs, when I'm playing melee I'd rather have a bard. On that note, no one cares if that job is running back and forth from point A to point B and repeating 4 macros. They care that it works so well, and parties will take them over you juggling all your oh-so-difficult duties anyday (this is assuming they can't get both of you, hehe...agreed with Tomoh, best backline is BRD, RDM, BLM).

Neither here nor there, just it doesn't matter if jobs are harder to play than others, whether people think they are or they aren't, none of this makes any difference. Just makes a difference if you do your job in a party, regardless of whether it's a little or a lot.