RDM > BLM , WHM in skill

[Rones]

I think a lot of people are misreading what neosoul's basic argument was. I'm not pointing this out to defend her but rather to see her get burend even worse than she is. This thread isn't a rdm > whm+blm. She is attempting, without any support/evidence, to argue that the players behind the rdms characters have more game skill than the players behind the whm + blm characters. This argument that neosoul suggests is so illogical I have no idea where to even begin, and unfortunately she offers no evidence to even counter.

[Nassa]

This thread isn't a rdm > whm+blm. She is attempting, without any support/evidence, to argue that the players behind the rdms characters have more game skill than the players behind the whm + blm characters. This argument that neosoul suggests is so illogical I have no idea where to even begin, and unfortunately she offers no evidence to even counter.

Yeah sorry but have to agree. This thread is kinda stupid and should be closed.

People who do not know the RDM job thinks all we RDMs do is refresh. Similarly, people who do not know the WHM and BLM jobs thinks that all WHMs do is heal and all BLMs do is nuke.

Nassa

[Karinya]

Sadly, even some people who *have* those jobs don't know them.

I have actually seen the whm who casts nothing but cures. He had to be reminded several times to cast protectra, and didn't cast any bar spells, any na spells, regen, haste... it was horrible. The difference from a competent whm was huge.

When you go to fight Explosures in Garlaige for your bomb coal, you'll appreciate the whm who knows enough to cast Barfira (as opposed to the crappy one who doesn't even have it - yes, I've seen this too ), and the blm who has Stun macroed. And when you go to Eldieme for your papyrus, you'll appreciate the rdm with Silence and Dispel, the whm with Blina, Paralyna and Viruna and, again, the blm with Stun (not even counting spells that these jobs can get through their subjobs).

Of course, those aren't the *only* other things those mages can do. But they're among the most noticeable. Most people won't really notice something like Burn or Choke, but the effects will be there whether you notice them or not.

[Trogdor]

Navy Seals > RDM in skill.

[jenovabldrb]

i don't like whm's go rdm's and blm's they rule and how comes when i was a main healer the rest of the paryt didnt let me fight i mean i am a rdm i have attacking skills too considering i did 6 more damage then everyoen else in the party.

[midnilux]

Re: Re: RDM > BLM , WHM in skill

Originally posted by Zaleshea

RDM pre 41 cannot be an effective main healer -AT ALL-, even if your skill with a healer job is excellant.I know this, because I've been forced to be main healer in the last 6 parties I been in. And thats without a BLM and a WHM. Hell I miss both dearly. You NEED thier skill. You CAN'T do it all on your own. I KNOW I wont be able to. Theres always a BRD in the party or some BLM/WHM to backp heal. If you lust for ONE MAN ALL ROLES BY MYSELF Red Mage. Get in a party with no BLM AND WHM AND BRD AND ANOTHER RDM then come back to me talking about skill.

Um, at your level a whitemage has like 30 more mp than you... and thats it.

Though it can get tough, You *CAN* heal fine on your own, if you're too poor to have decent equipment like Astral Rings then yeah you may not be able to, that's just cause you suck though, not cause it isnt possible. If you're equiping any +ACC, +STR, + DEX, pretty much ANYTHING thats not MP/MND/INT then you're an idiot and of course you wont be able to main heal without mage gear if you're wearing melee gear.

Furthermore, WHMs also have a tough time healing on their own without RDM, SMN, BLM, etc. to back them up, ESPECIALLY if there is no paladin. Liek I said at your level the difference between you and a whm is 30 mp, so wtf? You think their 30 extra mp gives them the ability to heal with no help whatsoever?

[Synbios]

Re: RDM > BLM , WHM in skill

Originally posted by neosoul
RDM can easily play white mage and black mage when needed without much effort, so much easier doing only one role
But can white and black mages play the role of the red mage if they were suddenly given the character?

Yes. Me.

[Tukka]

Furthermore, WHMs also have a tough time healing on their own without RDM, SMN, BLM, etc. to back them up, ESPECIALLY if there is no paladin. Liek I said at your level the difference between you and a whm is 30 mp, so wtf? You think their 30 extra mp gives them the ability to heal with no help whatsoever?

I've played main healer as a Red Mage (pre-41... after 41 I'm sure it only gets more difficult really). Heck, I've been the main healer in groups as a Black Mage. Depending on what you're fighting, all you need is Cure and enough MP.

Anyway, Red Mages do have more to keep track of than probably any other class. Bards are close, but more of what they have to do is following a set routine rather than reacting to what's happening. Most people who know the game will agree... in fact, there was a "Who has the most difficult job?" poll/thread a while back, and more people said RDM than any other class.

So what though? It's not rocket science. It's not as if the job we do as RDMs is unappreciated or underappreciated. Most people recognize the skills. Some people may be ignorant about just how much we have to keep up with, but posting a confrontational message in the Red Mage forum (where other mages probably won't even see it... and if they do read this forum, they probably are already familiar with what playing a good RDM entails) is silly.

Edit: finished the last sentence, heh

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Tukka
I've played main healer as a Red Mage (pre-41... after 41 I'm sure it only gets more difficult really). Heck, I've been the main healer in groups as a Black Mage. Depending on what you're fighting, all you need is Cure and enough MP.

Anyway, Red Mages do have more to keep track of than probably any other class. Bards are close, but more of what they have to do is following a set routine rather than reacting to what's happening. Most people who know the game will agree... in fact, there was a "Who has the most difficult job?" poll/thread a while back, and more people said RDM than any other class.

So what though? It's not rocket science. It's not as if the job we do as RDMs is unappreciated or underappreciated. Most people recognize the skills. Some people may be ignorant about just how much we have to keep up with, but posting a confrontational message in the Red Mage forum (where other mages probably won't even see it... and if they do read this forum, they probably are already familiar with what playing a good RDM entails.)

Agreed.

[Laehn]

Rdms are missing out on many key healing/nuking spells including the entire -ga and -ra series of spells. Theyre also missing regen 2 and 3, raise 2 and 3, reraise, cure V, high lvl status cures (which are used) ancient magic. You also learn spells significantly later than whm and blm and your healing and elemental skills both cap lower than whm and blm. Rdms can do both jobs to a lesser degree, true, but not better. Whms are healers, born and raised. Blms are nukers, born and raised. No one is better than whm at healing. No one is better than blm and nuking.

[Tukka]

Rdms are missing out on many key healing/nuking spells including the entire -ga and -ra series of spells. Theyre also missing regen 2 and 3, raise 2 and 3, reraise, cure V, high lvl status cures (which are used) ancient magic. You also learn spells significantly later than whm and blm and your healing and elemental skills both cap lower than whm and blm. Rdms can do both jobs to a lesser degree, true, but not better. Whms are healers, born and raised. Blms are nukers, born and raised. No one is better than whm at healing. No one is better than blm and nuking.

You're right, but nobody ever said otherwise.

The topic of discussion in this particular thread (mostly) has been the amount of player skill that is necessary to effectively do the job of a Red Mage, not the "overall power" of the Red Mage class.

[Laehn]

Ooops, ignore my previous post, i completely misunderstood.

Rdm> whm and blm in skill? I think youre just thinking highly of yourself. People just push rdms a little further than people push whms or blms. People dont really care what a blm or whm do as long as the blm is MBing and the whm is curing. But to make a generalization like that is a bit of an overstatement i think.

[Selba]

white mages have plenty to do in battle besides heal. we have to watch for the party status effects. know which bar-spell to use against certain mobs. cast regen. we can cast buffs. so don't underestimate us please i do not think any mage job is above another we all have our part

[Hopkins]

Can this male organ measuring contest be closed?

[Coinspinner]

Eh... WHM and RDM basically do the same things in battle. RDM is just tend to take over certain duties that would otherwise be the WHM's job leaving them to "just Cure", maybe that's why some feel they have more responsibilities. Enfeeble, Silence, Regen, Haste, Barspell, MB, Cure... add one more debuff (Gravity), one more buff (Refresh), and Dispel and that's the difference between WHM and RDM. More skill needed? Maybe, not by much though. Put a good WHM behind the RDM's character and in 10 minutes or so he'd have it down.

BLM though... I'm failry sure a monkey can be trained to play this class. We're mostly just simple folk, we like to see BIG numbers in the "You deal such and such damage to so and so" line. :sweat: