What's so bad about RDM/WHM??

[Vinen]

I Erase

[Jaggywaggy]

Just reading through rdm forums here, thf's my main but I play many jobs incase you're wondering why I'm strolling through :confused: Also I research many jobs and their combos so I can make the best possible parties if I'm constructing one with the available people.

I've seen the use of /wm vs exo's and this is only at mid 40s, for silena, quite useful if your tank is pld. I've read every post here so far so I'm not going to repeat what everyone said. But I've also seen the life saving use of /blm during adds. When you're the the only party in crawlers nest in the secert room, it's extermely hard to not get adds pulling beetles once in a while. That elemental seal+sleep working along with a brd's lullaby, was life saving.

Now that I said that, one more off topic thing

Unless someone wants to claim SMN BRD RDM is a good backline - in that case there really is a good reason for the RDM to sub WHM, because neither of the other two can bar worth a damn. I haven't partied with summoners enough to know if their abilities can make up for giving up a WHM or BLM in that slot.

There are times, it's actually quite good with a ninja tanking. No need for wm, blm might pull hate too easily, even with thf maybe if they're average or worse. Not me though :spin: I got +19 dex, +16 agi,+16 attack, I alternate equip between SATA and attacking, and saving for my Dex+3s.

To sum up, rdm is about being flexible, having several leveled subs can only aid you at your many possible roles, like many other jobs in which having several subs leveled makes you better.
"If" you have some time, there is no reason to not have at least wm and blm available fully subbed. And as a earlier poster mentioned, it's nice you guys are arguing over 2 good subs, not something retarded like a melee sub for xp. "Omg samurai sub is viable damnit, U don't understand, I get mad TP from tp store" :

[Mantronic]

as rdm/whm i burn threw mp so much faster it actually hurts my feelings to sub /whm but lately been fighting spiders that poison is damn strong and to see the whm or blm just resting mp because they think its like crawler poison is such utter crap i started subbing whm. when i hit 64 and get erase i doubt my static group will let me roam free with out /whm. sigh mp conserve is so missed!!!

[neosoul]

I agree if you have time that two subs are good to have. But if you must choose one I would go with blm because that is the sub that JP parties also prefer and generally better. You SHOULDN'T be the main healer anyway unless your party likes downtime, so there is no reason to have whm subbed. I want to know how all you rdm who play main healers do your job to keep the mob enfeebled, everyone refreshed and still have enough mp to heal, wihout downtime. Get a real whm. On the other hand, a blm abilities also help your rdm, like elemental seal, and conserve mp, aspir in case you run low on mp, and magic attack up never hurts for bursts...I dont see why ppl still debate this.

[Jaggywaggy]

Neo I don't think most people are debating that. Almost everyone seem to agree /blm is overall the better sub. And not every 4-7k per hour party needs WM depending on the setup, but no one but you may have /wm available when it happens to be the better sub for that situation do mainly to status cures.

In some setups you don't need need WM, yet you still need at least the status cures just not the heavy healing, rdm/wm> /blm is those times. And sometimes there simply isn't a wm/ online that's available maybe because it's a level range with few people have reached. I don't have a mage above 31 but I assume unlike melee, mages if they don't like a party setup they can just leave or wait for a better one. Not us melee, we try to make the most of what we get alot of the times. So maybe you can wait for that group with a primary WM for 30minutes-1hr. Not me, one invite a day is considered lucky.

Think of it more like this

It's really status cures and elemental group buffs>everything else that's better, but if you're the only one that can do them, it's darn importent. And when the mob does group status attacks, you may need two people with the ability to help patch everyone up, so the WM can get back to healing faster, and the blm can return to nuking, etc. I doubt anyone going to go "ehhhh a rdm/blm-rdm/wm with a leveled sub, don't invite him." So I wouldn't worry too much.

If it was me personally, I'd level blm wm, and brd just to be ultra flexible. And if one can get a job to 60+, it should feel like a small fraction of the time to get to 37, especially a mage since they get more invites. And the cost to lvl a mage to 37 shouldn't feel too bad if you have a 60+ already. By 60 you have faster farming methods available, and preheps you have a main craft that can rake in gil. Unless of course you do nothing but power-game so therefore don't farm much and/or don't craft at all, which totally ruins the fun IMO.

Edit: By the way

I want to know how all you rdm who play main healers do your job to keep the mob enfeebled, everyone refreshed and still have enough mp to heal, wihout downtime.

You know I've wondered that too, I can only imagine. I'm sure they have to drop a task or two to focus mainly on healing and refreshing, if it's busy some people want...it's busy they get. Once again though, you could probably get away with it with the almighty ninja tank They give healers more time to do other things than they know what to do with it, unless they really suck at tanking. I've also been in a party with brd/wm rdm/blm with pld tank for mp users, the rdm actually had enough mp to keep on going almost all the time, we were fighting beetles, with no trouble. And this guy wasn't exactly the brightest rdm I've met either.

[Apple Pie]

because that is the sub that JP parties also prefer and generally better.

This may be opposite from LV65 to 70, especially from LV71 to 74. Even among our people, /WHM is popular around this period (I'm 100% Japanese.).

I don't try to say /BLM doesn't work at all. We still get invites with /BLM. However, against creatures with group stats anomalies, /WHM iventually gives "our PT" better performance. I of course know /BLM gives "me" better performance.

For example, skeltons have area blind attack and all three frontliners are blinded. If there's only one person with Blina, it takes 29 seconds to cure them all. This significantly slows us down. However, if all three mages are able to cast it, it only takes 3 seconds.

We're going to where /WHM sub is preferred by your other members as we go further. I know I'm lazy and I even start to raise RNG for Ballista (RDM/RNG) lol but I'm sure I will work on my WHM ASAP because I purchased Erase. I know it's boring but I don't want to compromise my RDM

[neosoul]

you guys made some good points, thanks

[Vinen]

hehhe, /WHM IMHO is the better of the 2 at higher levels. Why you may ask? Well. First off 65+ you will almost 90%+ have a BLM in your group and they can handle the Elemental Based Debuffs as well there skill makes yours look pitiful.

Secondly, no longer are you fighting crabs, which you can freely aspir off of. From 70+ I can think of one monster you xp off you can Aspir off of. That would be RDM type Weapons. The rest of them are either, Undead (King Ranp Tomb) or dont have MP (Everything in Kuftal / Golumns in Ru'Aviteu).

But from RDM/WHM you gain, Paralyna (remove paralyze from Oviinkis and Ladons), Silena (Help out with those Pesky Cocktrices), Erase (remove stun from people when fighting Weapons, Bind from Fighting Golumns), -na Bars for increasing resistance to Palalyze (think Oviinki and Ladons)(Yes its very noticbly stronger from me RDM with max Enhancing and WHM with max Enhancing), AoE Heals(Think Weapons).

This in turn helps WHMs out a LOT and your group a lot because the BLM/WHM, WHM/Whatever, and RDM/WHM can all remove these status effects from one of the 3 melees (this is how i set most groups up), thus cutting the time down that these highly detrimentale effects are on the melee, Palalyze at 70+ is absolutly crippling as it pretty much goes off every round.

And what do BLMs get? ... ... ... Conserve MP!, and Elemental buffs (which I wouldnt do anyhow since I have a BLM in my set PT)

But it really comes down to your PT, if no BLM then /BLM is better but Post 70 no way in hell I would form a group without a BLM, they are far to needed.

[Patchinko]

Grendel makes good points that I think are generally true for those levels, but a RDM/WHM still doesn't replace a WHM for a lot of those things, lacking Stona, so I'd imagine RDM/BLM could still get invites.

Regardless, having both subs leveled up is still best.^^

[neosoul]

perhaps the mob additions in the expo will make an offensive rdm more viable again, but ill have to level my whm in case, thanks for input

[dirtyclown]

i leveled whm out of circumstance rather than preference at first. i had alot of the white magic spells up until lvl 20 or so and decided to use whm as my sub because it was cheaper. i'm glad i did too, because it seems like the mages i party with either have alot of filters on, or don't pay attention. alot of times i see our melees get hit by paralyze or poison or blindness. i use the appropriate status heal spell immediately and go back to debuffing/refreshing and the occasional cure and regen to the tanks.

[Zaleshea]

I quit WHM for various reasons. But it is my sub because it is to signify that I am still loyal to my first true job since I started playing*. I will level BLM and WHM to 37. I want to be able to suit whatever needs to the party. With my 5 month experience as a whm, I'm fully oncfindent in my abilties using this job when in RDM/WHM configuration. RDM/BLM might be a bit tricky - nuking isn't really my style -yet- but blm is an awesome job within itself.

*Also I would like to use my -na spells. This configuration makes it all the more easier if there is a whm present in the party. Thier mp would soley be used for healing, while I enfeeble and status cure(and backup heal of course). I'm sure rdm/whms dont play like this, but I will and this is the purpose I've made for this combination. At high levels, by request from party, I would switch subs accordingly.

[Chucklez_1]

All I can say is /whm is VERY important and you MUST have it leveled up enough to cast silena and paralyna at lvl 60-64. You don't know how many times I'm thanked by the whm in onzozo parties when my job mainly in the group is to cast those, refresh, debuffs and of course the usual MB (providing that the WHM does most of the haste). I also like the fact that DS + Cure IV is enough to fully heal my HP after convert

With Dark staff becoming really cheap (dang...i bought mine for 450k and now it's down to 370k), whm is becoming as good as a sub as blm. But by no means that it is way better than blm.

I really prefer blm sub because overall, you'll need the spells of blms more than you would from whm's spells (i.e. aspir, stat debuffs, etc.) and you just can't deny the importance of chainspell + escape.

Sigh...if only rdms get those important spells we only get by subbing blms...I'll rather sub SMN.

[Azael]

I'm RDM/WHM,

Honestly, i feel naked if i sub blm (it's underleveld atm but will be full lvl soon) I however just don't justify the whole one sub is better than another. I have learned to conserve my mp through other ways than a job trait. You can learn to play either sub effectively. and the simple fact that you don't know how to use a sub effectively or haven't tried (which i think could be the case for a lot of people here) isn't a reason to trash one sj or another.

i have never once in my 63 lvls of rdm been asked to sub blm, nor have I ever had a situation in xp pt where chainspell escape would have been needed. Honestly, i feel like i speed up the entire pt when i'm /whm. Basically I can make it so /whm only has to focus on heals.

I refresh, I haste, I -na, I do bar-ra spell, I can help cure but not generally needed, and often times, I can take over as whm if i'm pting with an Elvaan whm.

Bottom line is, both have awesome capablities when played right, there are crappy /blm, rdm's and there are crappy /whm, rdm's, the sub doesn't make the player.

Obviously having both leveled is best, take your pick if you can't lvl both, just know, there is no "prefered" sub job, there is a "majority" sub job, but that doesn't always make the majority right.

just my take.