RDM in BCNM40

[ifandbut]

I just recently entered the level 40 range and I have been wanting to do a BCNM. A person in my LS just recently started doing them with other people, he's a blm btw. He was telling me tonight that the only way that works is if you have 2 blms, 1 pld, 1 brd, 1 rng, and 1 whm.
No matter what I would tell him he said that RDMs are just usless in BCNMs...mainly 40s.
I toled him about using chain spell to nuke the hell out of the mobs then converting and continuing to nuke. But he would not listen.

The thing that has gotten me upset about this (yes...I know...its just a game....but I have nothing else to do so I put all my energy into this...no comments) is RDM is the only job I have that is above 30. I dont want to take the time to get whm or blm up to 40 because I REALLY want my AF, and I'm getting hard pressed for cash...I want to lev some crafting skills but between updating my spells every week, some I'm still behind on like Bio II...not to mention all the level 2 spells that I need to get soon, and trying to save a little bit for phalanx (yes...I know it's over rated..but besides Dispell and Refresh..what other spells do we have that makes us different from a want-to-be whm or blm) I just don't have enough money. If I can get phalanx to drop 2 times...I get the spell for free and I make 170k at the same time.

So...have there been any other RDMs that have helped win a BCNM40 out there...if so...what role did you play?

P.S. I use whm as my sub but I'm thinking about getting blm up to 17 or 20 for warp and -ga spells. Also..if the above sounds like a rant...I'm sorry....I'm just really pised to be toled that a job that I like so mutch cant earn money a slightly ezer way then farming and the like.

[cnick]

I've heard this to, and I don't quite understand it. Doesn't convert push rdm over whm?

[Jakco]

RDMs really help in BCNM for backup curing and convert, I don't see how you think they can't be good =].

[Patchinko]

Your friend is off his rocker. Ideal BCNM40 PT contains a BRD, WHM, RDM, and PLD plus two damage dealers.

The BRD keeps the crowd asleep with lullaby, the WHM keeps him alive and backs up the RDM. The RDM is main healer for the fighters (Convert is key).

[DM337]

And the quote about RDMs being useless in all BCNMs is BS as well. There's a topic on this forum by Apple Pie about BCNM50, where you NEED two RDMs to Gravity marathon the sheep. Also, RDMs would surely be useful in the later BCNMs as well for Refresh.

I also hear RDMs can tank fairly well in BCNM 20 or 30, just buff yourself up with Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Blink beforehand.

[Rael B.]

This is my usual BCNM party:

- Taru WHM/SMN
- Hume RDM/BLM (me)
- Hume BRD/WHM
- Elvaan SAM/WAR
- Elvaan PLD/WAR
- Elvaan DRK/WAR

I always play the Bard Healer on these fights, since I can heal without resting for a longer time than the WHM can, he takes care of the debuffs and heals the melees.

As a RDM I have the potential to stop Flood, either I use Silence or Sleep on him, we've only got hit by flood one time (and we still won), that was because it was our first time, and I wasn't targeting the Black Mandy, which I should have.

We are very handy in BCNM parties, just like in any other.

[ifandbut]

Thanks for the info...I'll be talking to him latter today.....maybe he will listen.

One question...what is Flood. I did some looking around for BCNM40 info last night, about 3 AM here, and I saw it mentioned several times. It also seems that the only one that most people do is the Windy BCNM...why dont you do the San or Bastok one?

[DM337]

Originally posted by ifandbut
Thanks for the info...I'll be talking to him latter today.....maybe he will listen.

One question...what is Flood. I did some looking around for BCNM40 info last night, about 3 AM here, and I saw it mentioned several times. It also seems that the only one that most people do is the Windy BCNM...why dont you do the San or Bastok one?

Flood is Ancient Magic. Heavy-damage Black Magic with long cast time. The black Mandragora in BCNM40-Giddeus casts it.

As for other BCNM40s-the one in Ghelsba is against multiple rabbits, and the one in Palborough is against multiple worms. I can't say that I've tried either of them.

[AtraposBLM]

flood is a lv58 black mage spell of the type called Ancient Magic. A black mage can land it for ~900 or more damage. Luckily, the black mandra tends to get it to land for ~600-700 damage. If you get real lucky, sometimes your paladin will live through it.


As far as RDM's being useless....that's just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard lol. I'd argue instead that BLACK mages are almost useless...we don't have anything better than cure III, no regen, not enough endurance to nuke the whole fight, not good enough to silence or sleep without elemental seal (to stop flood)...so basically, we're like a gimped whm. RDM, on the hand, has all of that, and has convert as well. Convert basically means a red mage never has to sit down...so as long as they convert smartly (one time a rdm converted right as the mandies woke up, one decided to hit him, and he took 30 damage and died ; , they're one of the most valuable mage jobs to have in a BCNM. Personally, my favorite setup is BLM/RDM/BRD/MNK/RNG/RNG
That party dominates bc40's...but were I a bst, Bst/bst/bst/bst/bst/bst is actually the best set up you can have.

[Rawls]

RDMs can be quite useful in BCNM40s even though the 2 times I have done it with the RDM in my LS failed (our LS's BRD was doing his first 2 BCNM40s so he messed up a couple times.. he'll get better though).

And your friend who mentioned...

the only way that works is if you have 2 blms, 1 pld, 1 brd, 1 rng, and 1 whm

should see other groups fight them. I've been in..

BRD
PLD
WHM
WHM
BLM
DRK

With various substitutes.. RDM for a WHM, SAM, RNG, and THFs for the melees/BLM (including taking the PLD out of the PT).

Actually one of my most skilled (or plain lucky) setups was the one outlined above. Our BRD died 1/2 way through but the BLM just used Sleepga and we pulled it off with literally 1 second to spare :sweat:

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by DM337
I also hear RDMs can tank fairly well in BCNM 20 or 30, just buff yourself up with Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Blink beforehand.

BCNM20 has a lvl20 cap, and 30 has a lvl30 cap. A RDM wouldn't have Stoneskin or Phalanx for either, nor Blink for BCNM20.

Having heard about 20 and 30, it seems like RDM might be a good mage for it, though he certainly wouldn't be tanking. They're both supposed to be fairly easy in any case.

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Bst/bst/bst/bst/bst/bst is actually the best set up you can have.

I second that. Not because I'm a bst, but because bst just pwn in BCNM40s, and perhaps beyond. It might be a little bit weird using this tactic against the worms, but it could work *)

[Rawls]

Lord, yeah BSTs do quite well for themselves in BCNM40s, I even remember seeing a pic of several BSTs taking on a HNM Wyvren (forgot which one :sweat: but the pic looked like it was in a tunnel, Kuftal maybe) by spamming jugs.

They can also solo some of the weaker HNMs (Serket comes to mind) with decent ease.

This thread has gone so far off topic in the last few posts.. the end of my previous one included : /

[Digital]

Originally posted by Patchinko
BCNM20 has a lvl20 cap, and 30 has a lvl30 cap. A RDM wouldn't have Stoneskin or Phalanx for either, nor Blink for BCNM20.

Having heard about 20 and 30, it seems like RDM might be a good mage for it, though he certainly wouldn't be tanking. They're both supposed to be fairly easy in any case.

He said to buff up beforehand. I dont think BCNM20 or 30 will remove any buffs you put on before entering the cricle, so therefore you can have them up.

[AtraposBLM]

buffing with blink/stoneskin might give you like a minute of tanking...maybe that's enough. I've never done a bc20 or bc30, but I'd imagine you'd need to be able to survive more than 6 hits (2 from blink, 4 from stoneskin) to be an effective tank.