Rdm Enfeebles and Elvaan

[Cakosama]

I heard some of my friends in the game said that some of the most important enfeebles by the rdm are determine by mind, so does that make elvaan a better rdm b/c of the high mind?

[FFXI-FREAK96]

not Nessesarly.. Taru have pretty good Mind To.. Wat Makes a Elvaan Better is his ability to hit harder with swords and have a bit of mana for Healing and Few Minor spells and the Convert Ratio is pretty good.. cause your Not losing Massive amount of health to Fill up Mp..


(plz dont flame me if that dosnt sounds totaly and compelety Right im new to Elvaan Rdm's But Overall that What it seems like)

[Deodorant]

That is so wrong.

Elvaan convert ratio is the second worst of all the races (only Galka are worse). They do have quite a bit more mnd than tarus, but as a mithra rdm I have never once wished that I had more mnd and less mp. Tarus are, hands down, overall the best rdm's in most situations; however elvaans, humes and mithras are very, very close behind.

[DrMrLordX]

Elvaan strength isn't much of an asset for rdm. Or at least, not in my opinion.

Taru don't have "pretty good MND". Theirs is the worst in the game. I believe they're tied with Mithra for the worst, but eh, I don't have any on-hand to make comparisons.

That being said, Slow and Parlayze definitely perform better in my hands(Elvaan rdm) than in anyone else's that I've seen. I have a +MND set that gives +26 MND, and I eat Witch Kabobs that give +4 more MND(and some other nice bonuses. +3 mp per tick resting? yay). I have considered switching to Goblin Mushpots that add a whopping +10 to MND, or maybe Mushroom Stew(+6 MND) or Witch Stew(+7 MND) if I can get it.

Up until this point in my career, MP hasn't been a problem, and keep in mind that I only recently got convert and refresh *) I'm more jealous of Taru INT than Taru MP. My nukes suck out of MB, and I have something like +23 INT on my +INT set.

[Vinen]

With Gear both my MND and INT are over 100 at level 72... god I love Errant.

[Zempten]

I'm going to say this pretty much on my own expereince ( is it enough? ^^ )

For RDM's Race does not matter, you play what race you want because it will be cool ^^ Hell I'm a Elvaan RDM atm and I'm loving it, just cause the hat is making me look great ( even when I'm dead ) ^^

MP, INT, MND, are hardly an issue with the wide array of equipment selections out there, the only question is if your going to work hard at the gil to get some of those items ( they are pretty expensive up here ^^ )

Yes, our convert ration is pretty bad. I'm at about 960 HP and 532 MP, BUT ( look at the "BUT" - word , not the area of the human body - please ) if I can really get the equipment I have in mind ( which is in another thread) I will have the following...

I am taking them off all items in the slot of shield, rings, belt, and gauntlest leaving my HP and MP at 1010HP , 465MP

Astral Shield - 980 HP , 495 MP ( Convert 30 HP ~> MP)
Wood Gauntlest - 950 HP , 550 MP( +55 MP , - 30 HP)
Forest Stone - 950 HP , 590 MP ( +40 MP)
Serkest Ring 1 - 900 HP , 640 MP(Convert 50 HP ~> MP)
Serkest Ring 2 - 850 HP, 690 MP (Convert 50 HP ~> MP)

If I eat a Apple pie it will be - 850 HP, 715 MP ( +25MP )

BTW, I'm ignoing a few stats only concentrating on the HP and MP

So now my HP is around 850 HP to 732 MP, which is a convert that is 84% efficient ( 732 / 850 ) meaning I lose 16% of my HP in a convert. That is not bad at all. In fact for an elvaan who is only ranked 2 to lowest on the MP ladder, that is not bad at all , BUT ( keep this in mind) this gear that I have listed is incredibily expensive so that is the only downfall.

Now, someone tells me that Rolanberry Pie gives about 50 MP, so if this was true my HP and MP would be somewhere around 850 HP and 740 MP, which is a convert of 87% efficient meaning I lost 13%.

Now the downside is that the equipment I listed is around 5 million gil on my server. So basically us Elvaans are not bad, we can basically do as much as any other, so please remeber to NEVER let a race determine the RDM who you will become

[Altruist]

Serket ring is rare you can only have one, other 50hp to 50mp is vivian ring which is rare/ex drop from Volutuous (sp?) Vivian (it's a low probability drop too).

[Zempten]

Ack totally forgot about that! I'm sorry ; ;

[Gman]

Originally posted by FFXI-FREAK96
not Nessesarly.. Taru have pretty good Mind To.. Wat Makes a Elvaan Better is his ability to hit harder with swords and have a bit of mana for Healing and Few Minor spells and the Convert Ratio is pretty good.. cause your Not losing Massive amount of health to Fill up Mp..


(plz dont flame me if that dosnt sounds totaly and compelety Right im new to Elvaan Rdm's But Overall that What it seems like)

Hehe...ironically, you couldn't be further from the truth, but oh well, gotta learn somewhere.

Like was mentioned, Taru have pretty crappy MND. That's why my RDM has more +MND equips than +INT equips, despite the fact that I'm a RDM/BLM...I'm no good to a PT if I acn't land Paralyze, Slow, etc...

Also I do almost as much damage as Elvaans do when meleeing, and hit more often. My RSE has +STR, and +HP so my stats are actually very respectable for a Taru. My VIT could be better, but I'm not a tank, so I won't stress over it.

HP: 541
MP: 416
STR: 29+5

[kyle5547]

Its kind of a delicate subject when it comes to what race is best for RDM. As an elvaan RDM i find that the high MND elvaan has really does help out a lot. Most of my enfeebling will stick and last a while.

As for STR I dont think its as useful as most want to put it since i dont melee in XP parties. As a high level RDM your melee will not really help that much and you will have quite a hard time hitting the mobs.

With the convert ratio, I think its rather good since I will always have more than enough HP to get my MP back to full when i convert. This is not the same in a taru's case since they have much lower HP, so if they get hit at all they risk not being able to get all the MP back without having to cure to full. I think that a "convert ratio" is kind of a moot point, since the purpose of converting is to get all your MP back, and I dont think any race has much of a problem doing this.

Pretty much all races have their strong points for RDM. A taru will have a better edge at doing more damage when doing a MB due to the high INT they have. While an elvaan RDM will have an easier time enfeebling a mob.

Now with the little MP elvaan get, this can be helped with the gear you use to balance this out. In reality your MP count will pretty much only dictate how often you will need to use convert, but keeping refresh on all the time, this will help out a lot. RDM pretty much endless pools of MP because of refresh and convert. And having a dark staff will help tons on getting your MP back.

Ive found my enfeebling spells to get resisted a lot less and be more efficient than other races and even higher level RDM that arent elvaan.

Basically, elvaan RDM are good at enfeebling and make very effective healers as well. Also your melee damage is pretty good when you actually do engage a mob so I think that elvaan make a very good choice for RDM.

[MMan530]

As its already been noted, what the "best Red Mage race" is.... really comes down to preference.

Tarus have a great convert ratio and good int, but they lack mind.

Elvaan have great mind.

Humes/Mithra have a good balance of the Taru int/mp and the Elvaan mnd without having a real deficit.

I prefer hume or mithra, but looking cool is important- so pick your favorite out of the bunch. I'm still not a big fan of elvaan red mages (their lack of mp comparatively is bothersome to me).

[Uroboros]

Any race can be a passable RDM but if there was any way to do it I'd go Taru in a heartbeat, being able to have 800+ MP without trying makes me weak at the knees, instead of tons of MP gear for 600+ as hume and sometimes feeling strained. They should have some quest that costs something ridiculous like 500k-1 million gil or something where you can transmogrify your race or something. ; ; I'd do it. But pick whatever race you like best, you'll enjoy the game more.

Also I'm not sure Astral Shield/Serket Ring/RSE2/racial belts etc. are reasonable to justify racial choice, if you have all that gear listed you likely have a job over 70 already so that you have methods of making that money that don't involve months of farming or fishing. Or you can then just get the stuff yourself. The taru advantage is that they don't have to care about millions of gil in MP gear, and if you consider the time it takes to make millions of gil in gear before you can actually fight good NMs and HNMs and BC60s, it's an enormous advantage. Also their mind deficiency becomes not a big deal when they can just put +MND gear on every slot another race would have +MP gear on, and the further I get the less convinced I am that +MND and INT make a giant difference past about +20 anyway. Half the time it seems like a dice roll, +15 or +30 MND, on +27 macro Paralyze resisted three times in a row, switch to melee macro and +13 MND or whatever, it sticks. Thanks Square, for making sense. AF chest, Enfeebling Torque, Master Caster's Bracelets, etc. make way more of a difference than +MND does.

Don't get me wrong, +MND/INT is really important. But too big a deal is made out of inherent racial differences regarding stats. By far the most important racial differences are HP and MP pools. Everything else kind of doesn't matter that much, gear and food can make up for it. You definitely know a Taru melee is a Taru melee when a Recluse Spider decides to Sickle Slash him. You definitely know a Galka or Elvaan mage is a Galka or Elvaan mage when their MP pool is half the Taru mage's. No other differences come close to mattering as much.

[scheme]

I couldn't imagine being any other race but Taru. My high +MND equipment (which costs infinitely less than purchasing millions of +MP equipment and STILL having lower MND and INT than a Taru who has good +INT and +MND swapping sets) means that I've never had a problem sticking Slow/Paralyze, I really never have. I also cure for the cure cap, and then some without a problem. With Errant stuff it will only get easier and only make me better, as whether or not Enfeebles stick will probably never be a problem afterwards. However, that is level 72, not levels 1-71, which are arguably far more important.

Now, the #1 reason as to why I love being a Taru RDM is the MP, above all else. Sure, I'm the only race who can effectively Magic Burst without worrying about being resisted or doing low damage. I'm the only race of RDM who can effectively do all of his other jobs AND MB twice or more in a single fight, and then keep doing it without stopping ever. I'm the only race of RDM who has a near-perfect Convert ratio, and on top of that, I'm the only race who can Convert every 10:00 on the dot and maintain a ridiculous amount of MP-over-time used. Not only that, but I don't have to use three or more Cure IVs, I just put a Cure IV macro in my Convert, Regen myself, and then Drain the monster until I'm back to full. The amount of MP I'm able to use over the period of 4 hours vs. that of an Elvaan is amazing, I completely blow them out of the water when it comes to my ability to reduce downtime via using my own MP.

Let's look at some real statistics, without armor and +MP because a Taru can pretty much get every +MP that an Elvaan can.

Level 59 RDM/BLM:

Taru -
715 HP
625 MP

Elvaan -
982 HP
385 MP

Now, without factoring in Refresh (considering both races will have the same MP regen if in the hands of the same player), this means that every 10 minutes I'm able to use 625 MP, and the Elvaan is able to use 385. So every 10 minutes I'm able to use 240 more MP than an Elvaan.

240x6 = 1440

So I'm able to use 1,440 more MP than an Elvaan in a single hour if we're both using as much MP as possible and timing our Converts down to the second so we can minimize downtime as much as possible.

1440x4 = 5760

In a four hour party, I am able to use nearly SIX THOUSAND more MP to minimize downtime than an Elvaan RDM is. Now, in reality, this number is actually bigger considering I need only Cure IV myself once and I've seen Hume RDMs Cure IV themselves 3 times to get back all their MP. But I will not factor in such things considering that other players may very well do what I do and just continually Regen themselves back up. Either way, it factors in to where I can at the minimum use nearly six thousand more MP in a four hour party than an Elvaan can. Not to mention that the damage over time I am able to add to a party through multiple MBs per fight that are not resisted, the damage added due to my INT, and the healing over time I am able to do with that MP far outweighs that of any other race.

Is there any other race that can look at your Convert timer with 2 minutes left and tell your WHM "Heal your MP to full, my Convert's almost up and I'll handle healing"? Absolutely not, there have been SO many times where the extra MP I have that a Hume, Mithra, Elvaan, or Galka RDM wouldn't have was able to completely fill my mages back up to full MP on Chain #5 to where I could then use Convert and we could keep going as if we had just gotten to the spot.

Not that I'm saying that Elvaan, nor any other race of RDMs cannot work, I'm just saying that the MP lost and MP-over-time used difference is substantial, and it adds up tremedously. Over the course of playing as a Taru RDM from 61 levels, I would estimate that the amount of MP I've used vs. that of what I could as an Elvaan would be over one million.

Do you think that that affected my party's downtimes throughout? Absolutely. The job of an RDM is to reduce downtime, and quite simply put, Elvaan is the second worst at doing that. Players make a job, not race, but an Elvaan's innate limits will stop you from being able to take it as far as I can with my Taru. There are things you will not be able to do, times you feel inadequate, and many times that people will not invite you because you're an Elvaan RDM.

Even with all those items listed, you're still not going to have as much MP as a Taru RDM, and you will certainly not match his INT and MND because you will not be able to put any +MND or +INT in those slots, whereas a Taru can go full into MND and INT to guarantee his job is fully realized.

[Alcueid]

>Not that I'm saying that Elvaan, nor any other race of RDMs cannot work, I'm just saying that the MP lost and MP-over-time used difference is substantial, and it adds up tremedously.

Yet another arrogant Tarutaru who thinks he is better than all the other mages.

Mithras and Humes can easily end up with more of both HP and MP than a tarutaru of the same level, even if both are using the same class of equipments.

At higher levels, with the Zenith set, Elvaan's low mp is not a great factor.

It is easier for Tarutarus to have more mp. But that means more of the power-players who only worry about stats choose tarutaru for mages.

At higher levels tarutaru rdms have the problem of having too much mp compared to hp because they simply have too little hp.

In the end what matters most is not the race of the character, but the skill of the player inside the character.

[Uroboros]

Scheme, I agree with your MP sentiments as MP is an issue, however

Now, the #1 reason as to why I love being a Taru RDM is the MP, above all else. Sure, I'm the only race who can effectively Magic Burst without worrying about being resisted or doing low damage. I'm the only race of RDM who can effectively do all of his other jobs AND MB twice or more in a single fight, and then keep doing it without stopping ever.

As hume RDM I do not get resisted on nukes or bursts and if I'm not busy doing something else (like I just started a Refresh cast when melees start renkei) I always burst. I only get resisted if the mob put up Shell IV or Bubble Curtain or Water Wall or something and I missed Dispelling it (meager filter options for chatspam and buffs/debuffs/enfeebles are easily my least favorite part of the game). But then, if that stuff is up, even a Taru BLM gets resisted.

Anyways like I said I agree with your point about MP but other races can still play RDM just fine. It's not as easy though, as hume there are points in a chain where I don't Bio II/Dia II when I'd like to simply because of the MP cost. Like I said above I'd love to be able to go Taru. But like Alcueid said, player skill is the most important thing. The best NIN I've ever seen was a Taru, I don't think anyone will argue that's the best inherent NIN race.

Also, on healing after Convert, haha, I don't. I'll burn the last of my MP on Stoneskin, but that's it. If the WHM wants to Divine Seal Cure III/IV me that's fine, but all I ask for is Regen II. I'm not getting hit, after all.