Rdm Enfeebles and Elvaan

[K0h]

heh

This thread is a joke, right?

You -honestly- believe an Elvaan RDM can compete with a Taru RDM in your average XP party? That an Elvaan RDM can take care of every duty that a RDM can?

The idea that a 15% increase in Paralyze effectiveness makes up for the MP pool, which is by far the most important stat for a RDM, is absolutely ridiculous. RDM, by far, relies on max MP the most out of all the mages and the only reason it's -acceptable- not to be a Taru is because of Refresh+Convert. Do you think anyone would invite your Elvaan red mage if he didn't have those? I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Do you realize that RDM can -never- have too much MP? If you're not at a 1:1 ratio for your Converts, you're losing so much. Not using Convert every 10 minutes? Talk about a waste... RDM always has something to cast because so many of their duties are stat independant and mana heavy. Why do you think BLM is the best RDM sub unless you -need- the -nas from WHM sub? Conserve MP. If any non Taru RDM can honestly say they wouldn't want more MP, they aren't doing their job correctly.

Let's run down your list of duties:

Keep everyone refreshed-Yeah refresh tends to pay for itself for the most part over time. But it negates that bonus right there, if you have to refresh 2 other people, the actual MP gain from Refresh for yourself is negligible-Refresh is causing you to spend more MP than it's giving you. Right off the bat, one of your MP "advantages" is negated because your first duty costs just as much if not more MP (party dependant) over time than Refresh will give you.

Keep everyone hasted-Yeah, that other 40 MP spell you probably leave to the WHM. Why should the WHM have to do it when you could take that strain off him? Oh, that's right, because you're Elvaan. Why not ditch the WHM and get a Bard and main heal+haste+refresh+enfeeble+MB? Yeah, cause you're Elvaan. More MP=more Hastes=more efficient RDM. There is -always- something you could be spending more MP on.

Keep the enemy enfeebled-yeah, this part's not MP intensive, and Elvaan's have high MND-so you're on par with Tarus (maybe your Paralyze is a little better, []Congratulations![]) here, for once. Unfortunately, on par in 1 out of 10 million areas doesn't make this "personal preference", it makes "Tarutarus are the best".

Magic burst-Tarus are easily the best here as nukes aren't exactly MP free and their INT blows you out of the water. This isn't a big deal, but it's just yet another issue that Tarus blow you away in.

Dispel-whatever. Ever seen Dispel resisted? Me either.

Backup/main heal-Cure caps kill the Elvaan here again. Same heals, Taru can throw out way more of them. Are you seeing a pattern here?

Do you honestly believe there has ever been a time in your Elvaan Red Mage career past level 48 where you didn't have a single thing to cast? Red Mage is the only mage class who can -always- benefit from more MP. If your White Mage has 3000 MP, noone cares because you only need so much to keep the tank topped off and everyone hasted. If your Red Mage has 3000 MP, he becomes so much more, because there's never a time when a red mage -couldn't- do something useful with his MP-Refresh on every PT member, Haste on every PT member, tank topped off, spamming nukes, anything. A Red Mage is, by far, the most MP intensive class in the game and anyone who firmly believes that Elvaan are even equal to Tarus is out of their minds. If you've ever main healed with a non-NIN tank while keeping everyone Refreshed, all melees and the tank hasted, the enemy fully enfeebled while hitting the MB twice with little more than a Bard backing you up every now and then with a Cure III or two, hats off to you but you're not an Elvaan or you're a liar. Tarus don't have enough MP, how can you say Elvaans do? Would you say an Elvaan BLM is on par with a Taru BLM? No, you wouldn't, because you would sound stupid. To completely refute the Paralyze argument, 200 extra MP at any moment in time is 5 Refreshes, 5 Hastes, 800 extra HP in Cures or 600 damage in nukes-take your pick, because a Red Mage with MP can do it all, and 1 more "The Robber Crab is paralyzed." will never make up for it.

Let me clarify my stance here though. I do not care what race a Red Mage is. I know many, many Elvaan Red Mages who do a great job. I would party with them in a heartbeat, as they keep their primary duties done and know what they're about. Any race can do RDM effectively, but to honestly try to pass it off like Elvaan RDM will ever do just as good as a Taru RDM is an insult to my intelligence.

[Deodorant]

I did some research, and unfortunately I came to the conclusion that Elvaan beats Tarutaru!

Here's the Proof!

[xcalibur2k]

Originally posted by Deodorant
I did some research, and unfortunately I came to the conclusion that Elvaan beats Tarutaru!

Here's the Proof!

WRONG!

[DrSerpico]

Wanna play it that way?

Don't go around misspelling "red mage". Check the forum name and/or the ingame translator function for spelling, and thus:

Ta-daa!

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by scheme
Now, the #1 reason as to why I love being a Taru RDM is the MP, above all else. Sure, I'm the only race who can effectively Magic Burst without worrying about being resisted or doing low damage. I'm the only race of RDM who can effectively do all of his other jobs AND MB twice or more in a single fight, and then keep doing it without stopping ever. I'm the only race of RDM who has a near-perfect Convert ratio, and on top of that, I'm the only race who can Convert every 10:00 on the dot and maintain a ridiculous amount of MP-over-time used. Not only that, but I don't have to use three or more Cure IVs, I just put a Cure IV macro in my Convert, Regen myself, and then Drain the monster until I'm back to full. The amount of MP I'm able to use over the period of 4 hours vs. that of an Elvaan is amazing, I completely blow them out of the water when it comes to my ability to reduce downtime via using my own MP.

anything else youd like to brag about yourself?

[scheme]

I'm sorry, I think you were looking for the DRK forum. This is the RDM forum.

It's alright though, I forgive you. You're an Elvaan melee and, as such, are expected to miss.

Have a nice day pal.

[DrSerpico]

Say it with me now:

I'm the only race of RDM who can effectively do all of his other jobs AND MB twice or more in a single fight, and then keep doing it without stopping ever.

I'm the only race of RDM who has a near-perfect Convert ratio, and on top of that, I'm the only race who can Convert every 10:00 on the dot and maintain a ridiculous amount of MP-over-time used.

The amount of MP I'm able to use over the period of 4 hours vs. that of an Elvaan is amazing, I completely blow them out of the water when it comes to my ability to reduce downtime via using my own MP.

Hmmm. If you don't want to sound HUGLEY overconfident, I'd use the word "we", since you're not the only taru in the world. "I'm" seems to imply that only you are the sole god of rdm-ness, but this "hidden message" may have other grounds.

"I'm the only race of rdm..." Just sounds wrong. "Taru is the only race..." is less "hey look at me!"


So please, sing it with me now!

What you want ~
You know I got it ~
What you need ~
You know I got it ~
Oooooo, all am askin' for ~
Is foooor a little respect when you get home ~
Hey baby ... ~

R-e-s-p-e-c-t, ~
Find out what it means to me ~
R-e-s-p-e-c-t ~
Take care, TCP ~

(1:1 ratio? /equip yada yada)

[midnilux]

Originally posted by scheme
I couldn't imagine being any other race but Taru. My high +MND equipment (which costs infinitely less than purchasing millions of +MP equipment and STILL having lower MND and INT than a Taru who has good +INT and +MND swapping sets) means that I've never had a problem sticking Slow/Paralyze, I really never have. I also cure for the cure cap, and then some without a problem. With Errant stuff it will only get easier and only make me better, as whether or not Enfeebles stick will probably never be a problem afterwards. However, that is level 72, not levels 1-71, which are arguably far more important.

Now, the #1 reason as to why I love being a Taru RDM is the MP, above all else. Sure, I'm the only race who can effectively Magic Burst without worrying about being resisted or doing low damage. I'm the only race of RDM who can effectively do all of his other jobs AND MB twice or more in a single fight, and then keep doing it without stopping ever. I'm the only race of RDM who has a near-perfect Convert ratio, and on top of that, I'm the only race who can Convert every 10:00 on the dot and maintain a ridiculous amount of MP-over-time used. Not only that, but I don't have to use three or more Cure IVs, I just put a Cure IV macro in my Convert, Regen myself, and then Drain the monster until I'm back to full. The amount of MP I'm able to use over the period of 4 hours vs. that of an Elvaan is amazing, I completely blow them out of the water when it comes to my ability to reduce downtime via using my own MP.

Let's look at some real statistics, without armor and +MP because a Taru can pretty much get every +MP that an Elvaan can.

Level 59 RDM/BLM:

Taru -
715 HP
625 MP

Elvaan -
982 HP
385 MP

Now, without factoring in Refresh (considering both races will have the same MP regen if in the hands of the same player), this means that every 10 minutes I'm able to use 625 MP, and the Elvaan is able to use 385. So every 10 minutes I'm able to use 240 more MP than an Elvaan.

240x6 = 1440

So I'm able to use 1,440 more MP than an Elvaan in a single hour if we're both using as much MP as possible and timing our Converts down to the second so we can minimize downtime as much as possible.

1440x4 = 5760

In a four hour party, I am able to use nearly SIX THOUSAND more MP to minimize downtime than an Elvaan RDM is. Now, in reality, this number is actually bigger considering I need only Cure IV myself once and I've seen Hume RDMs Cure IV themselves 3 times to get back all their MP. But I will not factor in such things considering that other players may very well do what I do and just continually Regen themselves back up. Either way, it factors in to where I can at the minimum use nearly six thousand more MP in a four hour party than an Elvaan can. Not to mention that the damage over time I am able to add to a party through multiple MBs per fight that are not resisted, the damage added due to my INT, and the healing over time I am able to do with that MP far outweighs that of any other race.

Is there any other race that can look at your Convert timer with 2 minutes left and tell your WHM "Heal your MP to full, my Convert's almost up and I'll handle healing"? Absolutely not, there have been SO many times where the extra MP I have that a Hume, Mithra, Elvaan, or Galka RDM wouldn't have was able to completely fill my mages back up to full MP on Chain #5 to where I could then use Convert and we could keep going as if we had just gotten to the spot.

Not that I'm saying that Elvaan, nor any other race of RDMs cannot work, I'm just saying that the MP lost and MP-over-time used difference is substantial, and it adds up tremedously. Over the course of playing as a Taru RDM from 61 levels, I would estimate that the amount of MP I've used vs. that of what I could as an Elvaan would be over one million.

Do you think that that affected my party's downtimes throughout? Absolutely. The job of an RDM is to reduce downtime, and quite simply put, Elvaan is the second worst at doing that. Players make a job, not race, but an Elvaan's innate limits will stop you from being able to take it as far as I can with my Taru. There are things you will not be able to do, times you feel inadequate, and many times that people will not invite you because you're an Elvaan RDM.

Even with all those items listed, you're still not going to have as much MP as a Taru RDM, and you will certainly not match his INT and MND because you will not be able to put any +MND or +INT in those slots, whereas a Taru can go full into MND and INT to guarantee his job is fully realized.

The problem with all that and reason I will NEVER be a taru, is you are a fucking midget. No offense.

Part of the reason I quit my 45 Galka monk is I couldn't stand his fat ass. My female hume RDM is hot

Its been said before if they made an alternative to tarus with the same exact stats but weren't so pathetically looking all the hume/mithras, etc in the game would switch to it.

[Uroboros]

They may only stand three apples high, but they also have /panic, which is nearly reason enough to be Taru, and as mages they scan stick it on spells to do the Five Year-Old Needing To Pee dance allll party long. And I don't know about anyone else, but if it hasn't gotten old for me yet, it's not going to, and it hasn't. |Tarutaru| |Power| !

[midnilux]

They're just terrible looking

Some Galkas look bad ass, specially The Ninja and Dark Knights IMO, so while they're fugly they can still look cool with armor... but taru always look like toddlers, I see little taru Dragoons running around and just laugh, they are really cute in melee AFs I must admit though. But I wouldn't stand be an adorable little thing.

But besides that, I learned from my galka that "Specialized" races are bad. It killed me when I had to make a Hume cause my Galka mp is garbage, but it was also a relief cause that galka is fugly. What bothered me most wasnt getting levels again, I enjoy xping, it was doing those damn missions all over again but I got her to Rank 5 in a couple of days at level 20 with my LS help. So now it's all good.

So if I was a taru it would probably annoy me to have to make a new char for melee (I wont be a total gimp and do a taru melee or a galka mage, but I can stand be just normal with everything on hume).

That's just my reasoning. On everquest I *deleted* my 55 Rouge because he was a Gnome, not cause he sucked but cause I couldnt stand his midget ass, just remembering my gnome is painful.

[Alcueid]

>I'm sorry, I think you were looking for the DRK forum. This is the RDM forum.
>It's alright though, I forgive you. You're an Elvaan melee and, as such, are expected to miss.

The reason there are a lot of taru haters is because people like you play tarutaru.

The fact that the poster is a dark knight bears no relevance to the fact that your entire first post was bragging about how awesome your character was, and how your character is better than an elvaan rdm could ever be.

Your entire defense to my argument that an Elvaan redmage can be just as good as a taru redmage with proper equipment has been
a) "But the taru redmage has more mp"
and
b) "You only think taru is not the best redmage because you are a redmage"

Stop making empty boasts, because there are tons of elvaan redmages who are better than YOU.

[Gman]

Personally, I think WHM AF looks adorable on a taru, but pretty ugly on every other race. Especially the hat...

Tarus are supposed to be mages, so naturally the mage AF looks pretty good on them.

[bonovoxpsu]

i don't understand why there is race bashing in a video game of all places.

who freakin cares.

that's not to say some races aren't better at certain jobs then others. that's just logical. taru blm > all other blms, all things being equal. elvaan mnk > all other mnks, all things being equal. etc, etc.

this doesn't mean a race can't be good at any specific jobs, if the person spends the gil to cover up their weakness. so really... lets drop this, k?

[K0h]

Originally posted by Alcueid
>I'm sorry, I think you were looking for the DRK forum. This is the RDM forum.
>It's alright though, I forgive you. You're an Elvaan melee and, as such, are expected to miss.

The reason there are a lot of taru haters is because people like you play tarutaru.

The fact that the poster is a dark knight bears no relevance to the fact that your entire first post was bragging about how awesome your character was, and how your character is better than an elvaan rdm could ever be.

Your entire defense to my argument that an Elvaan redmage can be just as good as a taru redmage with proper equipment has been
a) "But the taru redmage has more mp"
and
b) "You only think taru is not the best redmage because you are a redmage"

Stop making empty boasts, because there are tons of elvaan redmages who are better than YOU.

OK, this post is ridiculous.

The reason there are a lot of Taru haters is because people are morons. Oh, look at me, I'm standing by a generalization! I am so smart! All Tarus are arrogant! All black people eat KFC!

Now, you're sitting here arguing with fact. Can an Elvaan RDM ever have the same MND, INT and MP as a Taru assuming both are decked out in the best EQ that they would wear?

The answer is no. They can't. Can the gap be lessened? Sure. Can an Elvaan RDM work, and work effectively? Sure. But you are absolutely lying to yourself if you think an Elvaan Red Mage can be just as good as a Taru RDM of equal skill.

Which is why, instead of making any sense, you insult the "arrogant Taru" and then go on to make baseless claims about his player skill when you don't even know him. I've never played with the guy either, and for all you know, he could be the best Red Mage in the game. But assuming, just because he brings his viewpoint to the discussion with himself as an example and it conflicts with yours, that he isn't a good player and that there are "tons of Elvaan Red Mages that are better than him" makes YOU the arrogant one. Why can't people just accept that sometimes, your race isn't the best for a job? Especially an Elvaan Red Mage, jesus. It isn't arrogance, it's common sense, and frankly, I'm tired of the blatant disinformation running around that pollutes the game's community. If you want to play Elvaan Red Mage? Awesome. The gaps CAN be lessened, and you CAN do it effectively. You don't like being a midget? I understand completely. When I stop understanding is when you give a blatant lie here like Elvaans can be just as good as Tarus, then start personally attacking the people who ARENT pulling lies like that out of their ass. The best Red Mage is and will always be Taru, and until you show me an Elvaan RDM who can go from 40-75 with a perfect Convert rate on par with the best Taru RDM's HP/MP, you're just talking out of your ass. Thanks.

[Alcueid]

>The reason there are a lot of Taru haters is because people are morons. Oh, look at me, I'm standing by a generalization! I am so smart! All Tarus are arrogant! All black people eat KFC!

Just how stupid are you? You are supporting my point.
Do you even know how to read?
I said there are taru haters because of tarus like him.
Do you understand what that sentence means? That means there are people in vana'diel who tend to dislike tarus because they generalize the taru population based on jackasses like him.

That sentence says nothing about whether taru haters are idiots or not. It doesn't say anything about taru players in general, and it doesn't even say anything about my stance on tarus.

All it says is that scheme is an arrogant taru.

>Which is why, instead of making any sense, you insult the "arrogant Taru" and then go on to make baseless claims about his player skill when you don't even know him.

If you read my posts carefully from the start, the only reason I am posting in this thread is because this guy scheme is an arrogant idiot. I don't give a damn about whether elvaan make better redmages or taru make better redmages. I am only arguing that an elvaan can make a better redmage than him.

But anyone who is actually good would not feel the need to come to forums like these to brag about their character at length.

>Why can't people just accept that sometimes, your race isn't the best for a job? Especially an Elvaan Red Mage, jesus. It isn't arrogance, it's common sense

I AM NOT ELVAAN! That statement should go to the arrogant taru scheme who seems to think that he is the best redmage in the game.

Why don't you actually read the preceding posts before commenting?

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