Rdm Enfeebles and Elvaan

[scheme]

Wow kyle, you must not have read anything we've said.

Did you not read where I said that I'm capable of using six thousand more MP over the course of a 4 hour party than you are as an Elvaan? Do you really think that having 6,000 less MP over that long of a time means nothing when it comes to reducing downtime?

READ the posts before you say anything please.

[AtraposBLM]

I think it's funny that the proponents of elvaan red mages don't bother to read the arguements.

Everything we've said about Taru vs. Elvaan is assuming EQUAL PLAYER SKILL. How many times do we have to say this? TAKE SKILL OUT OF THE EQUATION FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

<sarcasm> So you mean to tell me that an elvaan red mage played by someone who's done their homework and knows about the job is better than a taru who doesn't have a clue what to do in a party? Wow, I would've never thought about that. You really opened my eyes. </sarcasm>

Have we ever said that if you pick elvaan, you won't possibly be able to play red mage? Quote where I said that, please. But you're trying to insenuate that if you have two equally skilled players, one playing taru, one playing elvaan, they'll both be the same thing. Not true - the taru WILL be able to chain better and longer. Say what you want to say, a taru simply has more MP to work with then you do. That means more cures, more enfeebles, and more MP left over at chain 4 and 5.




To back up what scheme said - let's have a little fun with math. Say you have a a lv60 taru rdm and a lv60 elvaan rdm.
Elvaan:: Base HP: 1,016 - Base MP: 377
Taru::::: Base HP: 700 --- Base MP: 620
--The taru stats are guestimated, seeing as the calculator is very, very wrong. I may be slightly off, but that's what I remember seeing for taru rdm's around lv60. Someone feel free to correct me and I'll correct the math below.

The difference between the MP pools is 243 mp. Note, after the first ten minutes, both mages will have converted. That means the elvaan has used a minimum of 754 mp. The taru will have used 1,240 mp. Note that both will be regaining MP at the same rate, and if both rest, regaining MP at the same rate (assuming same gear). Therefore, you can discount the rest of the MP used. Assume both mages convert every 10 minutes on the dot, and use every bit of their MP before converting. That means with 6 converts, the elvaan has used: 2,262 mp. The taru, on the other hand, has used 3,100 mp. Note, this is like getting 3 full converts from the elvaan for free. Extend that amount over the course of a 4 hour party, and the difference in MP used between a taru and an elvaan is 3,352 mp. Can you imagine getting 3,352 mp for free every time you go to party with players? How much gil do you pay for 50 mp? And that comes at the cost of 50 hp...this is FREE mp that you get just because of the race you picked.


So is a taru a more effective rdm? Clearly (assuming EQUAL SKILL) the taru has an advantage just in the sheer number of spells they can use. So pick another race if you like. You can play the job all you want, just realize you're at a disadvantage. It'd be the same scenario if you had a taru melee - yes, they work. Yes, they can be effective. But assuming equal skill, a taru melee will always be inferior to another race playing the same job. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's the best choice.


That being said, I have lots of love for all red mages, whatever your race is. Your job is demanding, you have tons of things to be doing at all times, and you never really get to slack off. I truly respect any person that plays rdm, even though you do get sort of a free ride from 41+. Those that do it at a disadvantage...even more love and respect to ya. Just don't try saying you wouldn't be better with more mp

[Zempten]

Um....my HP helps me a lot when a Crawler Hunter uses his Scissor something on me and rips my Stoneskin off and takes off 500~700 of my HP.

I personally don't want to debate on the Supreme RDM Race issue. I just want to play my best and never run out of MP and I'm fine and happy as can be, other then that I don't give a damn about a tarutaru using 6000 more MP then me in a 4 hour period. I'll admit that sometimes I don't MB because my MP doesn't allow me and my convert is not ready. As far as Dia and Bio is concerned there is usually a DRK, WHM, or BLM there that wants to use it so I don't see a problem letting them do it. Other then that I keep the Slow, Paralyze, and Gravity on the monster at all times and when I Convert I don't heal myself anymore. WHMs knows to give me a REgen 2 and I just use Drain to regain my HP. Getting hit isn't an issue most PLDs and WARs do a good job enough to let me put confidence in his aggro handling. So yeah Tarutarus get to land more spells they are better then me because they can nuke more /joy. I don't care. I play the best I can be and that's find enough for me ( Yeah I know, I need to level up my BLM )

{Edit}

Oh and having a BRD in the PT helps me do more as well ^^

{/EDIT}

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
I think it's funny that the proponents of elvaan red mages don't bother to read the arguements.

Haha what I noticed is that mostly it's Elvaans who are too proud to admit that they are not the best mages. And it's not rdm's only, either, I can think of a particular elvaan blm who is just as defensive of his race *coughkiraracough*.

I dunno, Elvaans in-game are the mighty and the proud, so i suppose they're subconsciously role-playing that Elvaan pride on forums, too

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Deodorant

Haha what I noticed is that mostly it's Elvaans who are too proud to admit that they are not the best mages. And it's not rdm's only, either, I can think of a particular elvaan blm who is just as defensive of his race *coughkiraracough*.

I dunno, Elvaans in-game are the mighty and the proud, so i suppose they're subconsciously role-playing that Elvaan pride on forums, too

Agreed on all points (particularly about the elvaan blm *cough*kirara*cough*). They just refuse to admit taru's are better at anything. I don't understand it - some people just really really hate on taru's and refuse to believe that what they aren't good at what they're MADE to do. Ah well.

[kyle5547]

ok...first...scheme...I do read the posts and all i read is about how much having more MP is better how taru are hands down the best mages bla bla bla.

If we go by numbers...yes taru can use more MP and have more MP at the end of a chain i am not going to deny this. But, this only means you burn more MP. More enfeebling? ok you can throw more enfeebling, but given my higher MND mine will stick easier and last longer. With a BLM sub and my +INT gear my INT based enfeeblings stick very efficiently and last quite a while. So while you burn more MP I use less MP more effectively. I have compared this many different times in many different ocassions versus all race types. So pretty much what I'm saying is that sometimes less is more. So say all you want about elvaan and their low MP and whatnot, I have had no trouble with it and I have been very effective on buffing, healing, enfeebling and nuking on MBs.

With gear, I have the same gear any RDM uses. I go by what I need for my job and what I think is necessary to use. So if I spend a lot on 50 MP odds are that a taru has used the same amount of money on buying the same thing I have. I get the gear that will make my spells do more damage, heal more and stick easier and longer. Yes more MP would be nice, but I know that the MP that I have will do more and cost less in the long run.

I have never felt that im at a disadvantage because of having lower MP, its just made me a more effective mage and I think I do a very good job at what I do. So if you want to compare that players of the same skill level, comparing elvaan with taru, given that the taru has more MP to use during a fight, and as you say that that gives the taru an advantage...wouldnt that make the elvaan player better since he has a "disadvantage". I think that it also applies for taru melee (gotta love good taru PLD...specially if they have spirit taker ^^). They obviuosly struggle with HP but they do a great job. The HP disadvantage will make them more aware of what they do and how they do it. So once again we come across SKILL. If you know what your job is and how to do it you can do a great job no matter what race.

All Im trying to say is that whatever race you chose does not dictate if youre a better mage or not. Its the player who makes the mage. So for me its all about your skills and how you play the game, not what race you are or how much MP you have. It has nothing to do with elvaan pride or whatever you want to think.

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by Gman
^ I will however admit that RDM can get away with having lower MP because of convert and refresh. Sure Tarus will always have more, but they wont always need it. I've seen very efficient Elvaan and Hume RDM's so skill plays a huge part.

There's more to it than just that. In an xp party(which seems to be the setting discussed here), stop and think about how pulling works and how MP regen works.

Fight happens, a fairly static amount of MP is used by each caster, and the puller waits until the caster has that amount of MP(or more) and then pulls again. Or the puller just pulls and expects the casters to have that amount.

Stop and think about how this plays out.

Let's say you have a non-caster front line(war, nin, thf for example) and rdm, whm, blm in the back row. For this example, I'll ignore the effects of Convert, though I'll address that later in this post.

rdm has 400 mp, whm has 550, blm has 650. These are just made-up numbers.

The puller notices that the rdm burns 200 per fight, the whm 250, the blm 250-400 depending on how crazy he gets(blm are funky like that). He decides he wants the rdm to have 200, whm to have 250, blm 250 before the monster actually gets back to the staging area.

In the first few encounters, the rdm becomes the first "obstacle" to chaining because we have to wait for him to get to his operational MP level(200) while the whm and blm have some to burn. Let's say this happens after two fights. However, the rdm rested at the right time and is back to 200 MP to get chain #2.

After chain #2, the puller notices that the whm and blm are finally tapped out, and in the same position as the rdm, for the most part. They're about 150-200 mp away from the observed "operational" level after the fight, so the same wait time applies to all three. As the puller keeps pulling and chaining(let's assume that there is no real down-time here and that the puller does not run out of targets), from this point forwards, the whm and blm are always in the same position as the rdm in terms of the difference between their current MP levels and their operational levels. Their higher maximum MP ceases to be an advantage, without even taking the rdm's Convert into account.

The only way the whm and blm in this scenario will enjoy ANY advantage from thier higher max MP is if the puller gives them enough time to /heal it all back. If the puller waits that long, it amounts to lost xp, no matter how you look at it.

If the RDM in this scenario had had 500 or 550 MP(same stats, just for the purpose of this example) instead of 400, the results would have been the same. Chain #2 and #3 would have been easier to reach, but none of the subsequent chains would have been easier. Once the higher-MP RDM hit 0 or near-0 MP and had to rest up for the next chain, they'd have no advantage over the 400 MP rdm.

Conclusion up to this point: without taking Convert into account, no caster benefits from higher max MP provided that their current max MP exceeds "operational" levels. Only Galka could possibly have such a low MP that they could fall under "operational" levels, and most smart Galka avoid that scenario. Given this fact, +MP per tick while resting effects/equipment become much more important than max MP. The mages that use the right food and gear to gain +MP per tick while resting will beat the others out, given uniform casting stats.

Now let's throw Convert into the mix.

First off, the 400 MP and 550 MP RDM will both make monkies out of the WHM and BLM in the MP department because of Convert. Every ten minutes, boom, full MP. They can break the "/heal from minimum to operational" cycle, and they can start "over-casting" to limited extents, burning up more MP than they might otherwise, with the full knowledge that they can compensate for the loss after awhile with Convert. The 550 MP RDM can do this a bit more because he'll have a larger max MP-to-0 buffer(150 MP) than the 400 MP one.

To take this to extreme levels, let's assume the higher MP RDM has a "6000 MP per party" advantage over the lower MP RDM. The above max MP levels were, after all, just for show.

How much good do you think the higher MP RDM is really going to do burning up an extra 6k MP per party? My contention: very little.

Paralyze is the big factor here. If the lower MP RDM just happens to be hume or galka, they'll get a higher trigger rate on Paralyze provided they're using as much +MND gear as the higher MP RDM who might just happen to be Taru with lower MND.

If the lower MP RDM happens to be Elvaan, the trigger rates will be even higher compared to those of Taru. The Elvaan, Galka, and Humes will also enjoy longer durations from Paralyze, saving them from wasting time recasting the spell so often. This is assuming that the Taru rdm will "have no trouble sticking Paralyze", which is not always an accurate assumption.

So, while the higher MP Taru RDM can burn up 6k more MP per party, they'll HAVE to do so to meet or exceed the raw efficiency the Elvaan RDM introduces by gutting enemy offensive output with a stronger Paralyze. According to

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...884&perpage=19

an 8 point difference in MND can increase Paralyze trigger rates by 15%. A level 58 Elvaan RDM/BLM has a 9 point MND advantage over a 58 Taru RDM/BLM. Assuming that the 9-point MND advantage provides that 15% increase(it probably does more, around 17-18% I'd assume) in trigger rates, that's fewer standard attacks that the Elvaan rdm's party has to deal with. The party whm has to heal less, and has more mana at the end of each fight. The Elvaan just doesn't have to cover healing, ever, period. He lets the WHM and PLD handle it.

I won't mention Slow as a big factor here, because after 81 MND everyone Slows the same, and even Taru and Mithra RDM can achieve 81 MND eventually(with the right gear). Resist rates are uniform, but effects are(duration, dunno, but it's always pretty long if it sticks).

How much efficiency does the Elvaan rdm bring to the table this way? Hard to say. The efficiency of Paralyze increases dramatically vs the necessary healing magic to compensate for prevented damage because the monsters keep hitting harder and harder, and the spells necessary to heal that damage cost more and more. Paralyze, however, always costs a piddly 6 MP.

Currently, at 48/49, I am able to get around 2-4 triggers from Paralyze per fight, unless it goes down to renkei + MB quickly(this isn't always possible). These monsters are hitting the party pld for around . . . 80-100 hp per swing, often times. Let's assume 80 per hit, with 2 paralyze triggers per fight(best case scenario for PLD, worst case scenario for Paralyze). That's 160 damage prevented per fight, or around one Cure III. Cure III is 48 MP. I'm essentially "spending" a free 42 MP per fight because of this, and that's in a "worst case" scenario. I'll frequently prevent upwards of 400 HP in damage per fight. That's more than a Cure IV, or 96 MP, prevented. In such an instance, I'm doing the work of 90 extra MP just by having such a strong Paralyze.

How does this make me compare to a Taru rdm of the same level?

A level 49 Elvaan has 52 base MND, while a 49 Taru has base MND of 44 . . . 8 point difference. I'm getting 15% higher trigger rates off Paralyze, plus longer durations(less recasts = less wasted time) and better success rates when casting it initially. But let's focus on the trigger rate alone.

Using my numbers from the above example, let's assume the Taru has the same +MND I do(I have +35 at the moment after using food), and is in the same party(PLD is getting hit for 80-100, 90 average). I'm getting an average of 3 triggers per fight, vs 90 damage per hit, or 270 HP damage prevented. That's an average of a Cure III + Cure II, or 48 + 24 MP(72 MP) per fight prevented, or a "free" 66 MP spent per fight.

The Taru gets fewer triggers, so he gets approx 2.6 triggers assuming my 3 triggers per fight is 15% superior.

The Taru is getting 234 HP prevented per fight. Thats one Cure III plus two Cure Is, or 48 + 16 MP(64). That's a "free" 58 MP spent per fight.

I'm beating the Taru by about 8 MP per fight, just off Paralyze, and that's not taking into acount the reduced resist rates I'd enjoy and the longer durations I'd enjoy(fewer recasts). Now, how many fights do you think you'd have in 4 hours of constant party play? And how much MP am I saving per fight at level 58?

Also take into account that while our Slows would be equal, I'd beat the Taru on resist rates, and I'd beat the Taru on Silence resist rates when applicable. People told me I couldn't silence Anticans in Quickand Caves, especially not the PLD ones. I did it anyway. Usually, I didn't have to do it more than once.

ALSO take into account that, at level 49, my +stat-oriented gear + food(I use Witch Kabobs, which are geared towards +MND and +MP while resting, NOT +max MP, unlike, say, melon pies) gives me 396 MP(this is my +int set, which is what I Convert against and what I use at the start of fights). I can't really convert to anything less unless I opt to make myself naked or do something retarded like switch to meleeset.

So compare this to a 49 Taru rdm(base MP 522) wearing a strict +int set. Using the same +int gear that I am(where applicable, some of my "best +int gear" is RSEs which the Taru can't wear), the Taru wouldn't be gaining as much latent "unexpected" MP realistically, thought for the sake of argument, let's say the Taru gets the same +MP boost from his +int set as I do, and is using the same food. Taru gets . . . 522 base + 74(the MP boost I get with intset + kabob) = 596 MP. 200 point advantage(more than you'd realistically have under real-life circumstances).

(cont.)

[DrMrLordX]

(continuation)

Taru is getting 200 MP extra every 10 minutes, minus what he's losing to me on Paralyze, minus what he's losing recasting resisted Slows or resisted/half-resisted Silences . . .

Also realize that I'm gaining MP by being able to rest at moments when the helpful Taru rdm starts standing around casting Cures to cover for the WHM in anticipation of Convert(something I neither need, nor want, to do).

That advantage that a 49 Taru RDM should supposedly have over a 49 Elvaan RDM isn't looking so impressive anymore, is it? Given the nature of Paralyze, the advantage would only narrow at higher levels, because the Elvaan is still spending the same dinky 6 MP for his Paralyze, and the Taru is spending more and more MP(which, admittedly, he will have at his disposal). That advantage the 58 Taru RDM should supposedly have over a 58 Elvaan rdm isn't looking so impressive either, is it? I hope you Taru get an extra 6k MP per party, 'cuz you're gonna need it.

Now, let's look at this in a different light: what if the fights aren't so protracted? What if you've got some pld/mnk/mnk front line beating down "bones" in record time as mentioned

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...9&pagenumber=1

here by Uroboros? Then Paralyze, Slow, and Silence won't matter so damn much, throwing favor into the Taru's corner, and giving the Taru the opportunity to burn up that "extra" MP per 10 minutes from Convert on a task more suited to Taru stat allocation: nuking.

The REAL asset that a Taru rdm has is the ability to hit harder with magic. In an aggressive party that is lining mobs up and knocking them down quickly, the Taru gains an edge by being able to throw that extra MP per hour into offense rather than defense/healing. That's something Elvaan can't do, or at least, not as well, though the things I can do with Cure spells vs undead . . . ehhh, a different discussion for a different time.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I am not jealous of Taru MP. I am jealous of their INT. Taru INT probably makes Shock/Choke/Burn more reliable(I use them all), and if Blind suits you, Taru can probably make it stick more often, too. I must note that I haven't noticed huge advantages when casting any of these spells with +intset as compared to +mndset, but some advantage must exist(or so I would assume). That advantage does not seem to be as dramatic as the advantage gained when using Paralyze with a high MND.

I must also note that marathon-fights against HNMs or such-like that shrug off enfeebles always make high max MP desirable, and again, that's where Taru RDM will shine over everyone else.

In conclusion, stop beating the "Taru are the superior rdm" drum. I call bs. My Paralyze is better than yours, and yes, it matters. I can finesse my way around your MP advantage, even with Convert, and even while making few attempts to bolster my own MP above and beyond what I'd gain using strict +stat gear sets(fyi, I do toss on Astral Rings for Convert, but so can a Taru, so that's not highly relevant to this discussion). I may not be able to overwhelm your advantage completely, but I also don't have to spend so much time burning up all that "extra" MP you get from your wonderful Convert ratio. Has it ever occurred to you that there are some times when I just don't have to Convert at all? When it's unnecessary? When I, and the rest of my party, are so efficient that they don't need me patch-healing to reduce downtime? +MP gear be damned. I want +MND/+INT/+enfeebling/+elemental gear! I have Astral Rings for Convert, and later, I'll pick up a Serket Ring. I don't think I'll even bother with an Astral Shield or Zenith Gear, except maybe for certain key fights where I'll be doing nothing but Refreshing and healing over the long haul.

Taru are clearly the superior BLM(no contest) and 99% likely to be the superior SMN. In protracted battles where max MP really matters, taru WHM are superior as well(I would contend that max MP is not an issue for WHM in xp parties. They don't convert! See my example earlier in the post). With RDM, it's less obvious who is superior.

Notes on methodoligy: I convert to +intset because I start my fights with it; I do this by leading off with Shock and, typically, Gravity. I have less max MP with +mndset(the set that provides me with +35 MND after food), but after using Shock + Gravity, I've burned off enough MP that I'm not losing anything by making the switch. I'm assuming the Taru RDM in this comparison would be doing the same, and would gain no MND advantage with a +mndset over the Elvaan given the fact that I, the Elvaan, am using Devotees Mitts +1, Magic Cuisses, and Bishop's Robe, all of which exceed the +MND offered by the equivelant Taru RSE items(Wonder Mitts, Wonder Braccae, Wonder Kaftan). If you don't like my use of Witch Kabobs in this example as a "food not geared towards boosting max MP", go ahead and substitute in Goblin Mushpots and you'll find the comparison to be intact.

[Deodorant]

Can someone summarize the above two posts for me? I mean seriously ... it's not even an essay, it's a fucking dissertation ...

[Hopkins]

I read it all in a couple of minuites /shrug. You could infact proof read it and appreciate and understand it.

Seems to me he just showed with evidence that having more MP doesn't always make a better RDM...and showed it objectivly with evidence.

What the above poster has presented cannot really be summarised.

If you carry on the argument without taking a few minuites to read it then your not really being objective.

Interesting reading indeed.

[Gman]

While I see your point DrMrLordX, I have to disagree with your senario that WHM and BLM will drain as quickly. They get 3mp/3secs back with no MP cost to themselves, and they get to rest either during or after fights. This is more than enough to maintain constant operational MP levels, even if the chain gets to 4 or 5.

Also, there is never a "static" amount of MP burned. MP usage varies in every fight. Buffs need to be cast upon running out, dispel might need to be used 3 or 4 times in one fight, or none in another. When fighting AOE mobs, the WHM will spend more MP to regain everyones life than just curing tank. So many factors are involved that make your senario just not work.

Although I believe all races can make an effective RDM due to smart use of convert and refresh, Taru's are ultimately the best because they can last from convert to convert with much more ease than any other race. Even as a Taru in some parties, I find myself below 100 MP and convert still 1:30 away. This RARELY happens, but it has.

Spells are expensive. You have 3 mages and a PLD, that's 40 mp for refresh x 4, plus haste on at least one or 2 melees, since WHM can't be expected to Haste everyone. Another 80 MP there, 1 or 2 nukes at 60+ mp each adds up, as well as gravity, dispel, and other spells.

I will admit now that I havent read your whole post, so maybe you addressed some of these issues. Frankly its very long and I don't have time right now. But I will read the rest when time permits and adjust my post accordingly.

[DM337]

Originally posted by Deodorant
Can someone summarize the above two posts for me? I mean seriously ... it's not even an essay, it's a fucking dissertation ...

He's saying that the Taru MP advantage is negated by the sole reason that Tarus sucks more than he does at WHM enfeebles. Yet he forgets the BLM enfeebles, which he'll be spending more MP and time on, as well.

Now, to DrMrLordX:

Why list your equip that's better for MND than Taru RSE? If a Taru is wearing his RSE over those things for MND, then he's an idiot.

Let's see some advantages Taru INT gives:

-Longer lasting elemental enfeebles. Can stick their enfeebles better with Shock, Burn, and can keep the evasion down with Frost longer.
-Gravity lasts longer. Melees hit more. Gain more TP. Do WS faster. This leads into the next point.
-Higher MB damage. Mobs die faster, so less MP is needed to be spent.

The point of the Taru's higher MP is to do more. With Convert, a good RDM can have infinite MP. The more he does with his near-endless supply is the less that other mages have to use, as they don't have Convert to save themselves if they run out. Tarus can take the Haste burden off the WHM sooner, help the BLM kill things faster, and help the melees hit more, and they can do it better than the other races.

In your example, you cited pullers having to wait for MP. If the RDM is doing an excellent job, the puller shouldn't need to wait for MP! The WHM and BLM should have relatively full MP. I tell the puller to not let my MP ever hold up a pull. If I'm running a little low before Convert, then I'll just hold off on Magic Bursting in the next fight to make sure I make it to when Convert is back up.

Convert is one of the key abilities of a RDM. There's no reason not to use it! You stated that there are parties that you don't need to use Convert. Why? If you find you have plenty of MP without Convert, then why not start using more MP? Convert is free MP! had you be using Convert in those parties, then you could've been doing so much more than what you were doing!

Yes, max MP matters. You say there's no difference between a Taru at 200 MP and an Elvaan. There is. The Taru did more for the party than the Elvaan did! He spent more MP, which means more spells, which means more benefit.

[Apple Pie]

I'm just curious if additional 10 MND dramatically increases landing rate of enfeebling spells belonging to white magic. I should run FFRep between +27 MND and +17 MND to prove this if I have chance.

Well, I as well as other 65+ RDMs know additional 7 skill points from Enfeebling Torque help them land better in fact.

It is stated as if tarus always had hard time but I don't really have any problem now. When they don't land, I just choose wrong ones whose LV is just too high (12+ higher than mine or something) or they have high resist on corresponding attributes. In this case, noone can make it regardless of their race.

I know MND will increase the time they are "actually paralyzed" and the delay caused by Slow. Therefore, I don't mean to say increaseing MND do nothing.

[Discordian]

I've done my own tests on Cockatrices in Kuftal. Not having a Mythic Wand is very different than not having it. You could easily test this by using a test group and timing how long it takes to get 3k with a wand then 3k with a sword. The longer downtime will be shown as needing more heals, resting, and recasting of enfeebles.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

well
the fact is rdm elv > rdm any other race
(tarus have shity MND and high INT) elv have the highest MND from all other races and shity INT)

i love how dispel got resist sometimes vs carbs we will do 0 damage till they use dispel again ok who care if you have alot of mp when your spells get resist your job is suppert you need to think alot about how MND is useful

rdm need MND more than MP cuz if your spells get resist and there effect dont last long your useless

ask yourself why rdm AF quest you see elv not taru

from talking to random npc in the game
best ninga is mirtha in vana'diel (i think she is dead or something cant remember)
best darkknight is galka in vana'diel
best rng is mirtha in vana'diel
best pld is elv in vana'diel
best sam is elv in vana'diel

dont know about others :p
what npc say is what sqaureenix say they know everything about there own game