Rdm Enfeebles and Elvaan

[scheme]

Yea, funny Aluceid, I picked the best race for mages and somehow I think I make the best mage, who'd have thought?

I already said player skill was the #1 factor, that will never change. The reality here though is that if you take two great players, one Elvaan and one Taru, the Taru will STILL be better at reducing downtime. His race is BUILT for doing that, why argue it?

Can you honestly say that with you as a Mithra, that if you were a Taru you wouldn't be any better than you are now? Of course you can't, there's a reason why SE made different races have different stats.

As well, what are you talking about HP for? I wasn't aware that I ever had to worry about being hit. I mean, you'd think with Sleep, Gravity, Bind, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Blink, Warp, Escape, and Chainspell I wouldn't have much of a problem if I got hit. Where would HP ever come into play?

As far as your MP comments are concerned, fantastic, you now have more MP with the Zenith equipment you will never get. What's even more fantastic is that Tarus can wear Zenith as well. What's even more fantastic is that if you wear all of the HP->MP equipment you're talking about having, you'll have just as much HP as a Taru would anyways. So sweet, you're spending millions of gil just to turn yourself into a Taru, all the while saying that you're better than a Taru? Please.

I never said that a Taru was a better mage than anyone else, I will always adhere to player skill first and foremost. But let's be honest here, Taru is built for being a mage, and any mage in any other race would be that much better if they were a Taru. As a 61 RDM I've never felt I had "too much MP", nor that I would ever have too much. In an EXP party, the more MP I have, the less everyone else has to use, thus the less downtime we see. That's really the whole idea of being an RDM.

Although I'm not really sure why I'm trying to debate with you a simple fact, and the simple fact is that Tarus were built for being mage classes. Sure, I could go Galka RDM and I could be extremely good at it, but I would still have a glass ceiling that I could never overcome. Any player with the same skill level as me who was a Taru would still be better at their job than me because they are given more tools to do their job.

I will never adhere to the notion that more HP makes a better mage, I think that's such an excuse it's laughable. I think that anyone who thinks it's better to have HP is just making up for their shortcomings as a player by being able to screw up more. No thanks, I'd rather have the best ability to fully realize my potential as a mage and know that if I screw up, it's my ass.

It seems most people think that playing a Taru mage is playing the game on "easy mode", whereas I see it as the exact opposite. We have the lowest HP in the game, and there will be monsters in the future that can kill me in one shot. This means that I have to play as smart as possible with my massive MP to ensure that I don't become (|monster|) (|food|).

Tarus are like Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility.

[scheme]

Originally posted by Alcueid
Mithras and Humes can easily end up with more of both HP and MP than a tarutaru of the same level, even if both are using the same class of equipments.[/B]

Wait, so you're saying that with the exact same equipment, a Mithra/Hume can have more HP and MP than a Taru of the same level? Uh...please re-read what you posted, that makes absolutely no sense and it's impossible.

Originally posted by Alcueid
At higher levels tarutaru rdms have the problem of having too much mp compared to hp because they simply have too little hp.[/B]

False, my HP actually grows higher than my MP at any level. I'm estimating that once I'm 72 and able to wear the Errant equipment, it will actually perfectly balance my HP/MP, considering with my equipment around 55 I had a perfect 1:1 ratio and now it's going back in favor of my HP even with more AF at 61. I would also assume that considering I've played a Taru RDM from 1-61 I would know our HP/MP/INT/MND growth better than you, assuming of course than 61 is a "higher level".

[Kilgraw]

... I like being Hume... But then I don't have Convert yet, so who knows.

As a side note, I'm partial to more INT/MND gear then MP gear myself. I find if you only have to cast a spell once during a fight, you use up a lot less MP. That's just my personal preference though.

[Alcueid]

>Can you honestly say that with you as a Mithra, that if you were a Taru you wouldn't be any better than you are now? Of course you can't,

Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not arguing that Tarus are bad at being redmages, I am arguing that other races can be just as good as Tarus at being a redmage, and I'm also arguing that you are an arrogant tarutaru mage who has no idea what he is talking about.

>As well, what are you talking about HP for? I wasn't aware that I ever had to worry about being hit.

"We have the lowest HP in the game, and there will be monsters in the future that can kill me in one shot."

>As far as your MP comments are concerned, fantastic, you now have more MP with the Zenith equipment you will never get.

That statement just proves my point that you are an idiot. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get Zenith equipment? No, you don't. You are talking about something you know absolutely nothing about and acting like you know everything about it.

>Wait, so you're saying that with the exact same equipment, a Mithra/Hume can have more HP and MP than a Taru of the same level?

Learn how to read, and stop putting words in other people's mouthes. I said CLASS of equipment.

Taru -
715 HP
625 MP
Total: 1340

Elvaan -
982 HP
385 MP
Total: 1367

Tarutaru RSE belt +30mp
TT RSE Legs +21HP
Elvaan RSE belt +60mp
Elvaan RSE legs +12HP +12MP

Need I explain more?

>I've played a Taru RDM from 1-61 I would know our HP/MP/INT/MND growth better than you, assuming of course than 61 is a "higher level".

Let me just say that at level 62 you have gained exactly half of the total experience for a single job. (i.e. if you bring a job up to level 75 half of the experience you gain is for levels 1-62, and the other half for 62-75)

>Tarus are like Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility.

ROFLMAO

Once again I reiterate, you are just another arrogant powergaming taru mage who does not know what he is talking about.

There's enough equipment in the game that race differences do not matter very much. Don't make stupid statements like

"Is there any other race that can look at your Convert timer with 2 minutes left and tell your WHM "Heal your MP to full, my Convert's almost up and I'll handle healing"? Absolutely not"

or

"an Elvaan's innate limits will stop you from being able to take it as far as I can with my Taru"

You can go ahead and make statements like "I love playing a taru mage because of the mp". Or even "Elvaan mages that I have partied with have very little mp"

But don't go around making stupid comments like those. And realize that other races can have stats that are just as good as yours, or even better with proper equipment. It is just not as easy for them.

[scheme]

Okay, so you agree that Taru RDMs are built to be the best mages, and every other class has to spend a ton of money to make up for their differences.

Glad we could get that cleared up. Have a nice day.

Also, if the Zenith equipment was easy to get, everyone would be running around with it. But I'm sure it must be a walk in the park, having to find a level 91 Goldsmith, 92 Leathercrafter, and 100 Clothcrafter to make you all the cursed items. It must also be easy to kill Byakko or Genbu for the crown abjuration, Nidhogg/King Behemoth/Aspidochelone for the dalmatica abjuration, Fafnir/Genbu for the mitten abjuration, Seiryu/Suzaku for the slacks abjuration, and Fafnir/Nidhogg for the pumps abjuration. Yep, easy as pie, anyone could do it.

I've seen maybe 2 or 3 JPs with ANY piece of any of the Rare/EX Cursed items walking around Jeuno/RuLude, but it's easy as hell right?

Ohnoes, he knows what he's talking about, you can't just claim he's ignorant and watch him bow down!

Perhaps YOU should learn a thing or two before you spout off things you know nothing about.

Oh, and that RSE vs. RSE thing? That's hilarious, but who in their right mind wears RSE as a Taru RDM? Are you kidding me?

You like to make up these scenarios and things like "Yea well if the Taru RDM is wearing a physical and Cassie earring and I have all the rarest stuff in the game that almost no one has, I'm a lot better than him."

Sure you are, but what happens when I'm wearing the same stuff?

Let's also point out that the Zenith equipment (if you even get it) is level 73, meaning that for 2 entire levels, you are equal to a Taru. Fantastic, give yourself a gold star.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Alcueid

Yet another arrogant Tarutaru who thinks he is better than all the other mages.

Urm ... he's right, though ...

I don't understand why non-taru mages are so reluctant to admit their racial deficiencies. Given the same player skill and equipment, taru wins hands down, this shouldn't even be open to debate.

[Alcueid]

>Okay, so you agree that Taru RDMs are built to be the best mages

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. I said it is easier to have mp with a taru redmage than any other race. With white mages and summoners and blackmages, I would not argue that tarus are best at these jobs.

But what I am trying to say is that Elvaan, Mithra, and Hume can also achieve the 1:1 ratio starting at around level 61 if they spend the time getting the right equipment.

And because of the higher number of +mp only equipment available to them (such as Elvaan RSE) if they achieve the 1:1 ratio, their hp and mp pool are slightly greater than that of the Tarutaru.

>But I'm sure it must be a walk in the park, having to find a level 91 Goldsmith, 92 Leathercrafter, and 100 Clothcrafter to make you all the cursed items

That's what an auction house is for moron.

>It must also be easy to kill Byakko or Genbu for the crown abjuration, Nidhogg/King Behemoth/Aspidochelone for the dalmatica abjuration, Fafnir/Genbu for the mitten abjuration, Seiryu/Suzaku for the slacks abjuration, and Fafnir/Nidhogg for the pumps abjuration. Yep, easy as pie, anyone could do it.

All of the four gods are trigger pop NMs, and pretty easy to defeat.

>Oh, and that RSE vs. RSE thing? That's hilarious, but who in their right mind wears RSE as a Taru RDM? Are you kidding me?

That's exactly my point. No one wears RSE as a Tarutaru rdm, but Elvaans have godly RSEs that they can wear as a rdm, that boosts their hp/mp totals above that of a tarutaru.

[scheme]

I'll no longer direct any more replies to you, you're apparentally not worth my time Aluceid. If you can't even recognize that Tarus are built to be the best mages, then you're blind. Think about this:

Why else do you think that you're saying Tarus can make the best WHMs, SMNs, and BLMs, but not RDMs?

Haven't figured it out? Here's a hint:

BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE.

If you were a WHM, SMN, or BLM, you would say that Tarus aren't better suited towards that as anyone else either. You're just like everyone else, you're programmed to say that anything you're doing is automatically the best possible thing. You're just being a puppet with a pull-string, can't you see that?

I'm playing THF and NIN with my Taru as well, and I readily admit that I'm not the most well-suited to being either of those classes as a Taru. Do I care? Nope, I know that I'm skillful enough as a player that I can overcome (to an EXTENT) my racial differences. However, I also know that if I stand toe-to-toe with a player just as good as me who is wearing the same equipment and only race is seperating us, they will be better than me. They have to be better than me, their race is DESIGNED to be better than me. No way in hell will I ever make a better RNG than a decked-out Mithra, or a better DRK than a decked-out ANYONE else, I make up for that by being better than anyone else at RDM, BLM, WHM, and SMN.

It's amazing how many people have to have their cake and eat it too. You chose to be great in some things and mediocre/bad at others, why can't you deal with it? When I chose Taru I accepted I would make a fantastic mage but that I would never be the best melee, it's how the game works.

Pity you can't accept something as common knowledge as that. Oh well, ignorance must be bliss.

[Hopkins]

Taru RDM scare me with their MP. I will join a PT with an equal lv Taru RDM and basically they have a ton more MP.

Sure I have more HP, but it's only made a difference once when I had to take a dragons AoE and the Taru died.

I didn't pick my race to be good at red mage since I know one day I may want to change anyway. I picked my race because I like way Elvaan look. Racial differences can be overcome and perhaps one day my racial strength over Taru will save me.

Who knows one day when soloing my couple of hundred or whatever more HP will save me. But i don't count on it or worry about it.

People need to quit moping about racial advantages and just play. When i started Everquest I statred as a Dark Elf Cleric. Not the wisest choice for a cleric since the wisdom wasn't as high as dwarves, high elves blah blah blah.

I'm now a lv 65 cleric with 240 AA points. My wisdom is capped with no buffs. My racial disadvantages are nothing now. My gear more than makes up for any disadvantage.

My point is in time it's easy to learn to play with the shortcomings of any race and sometimes it's even fun. But stat wise, Taru win hands down. It's like 4+4 = 8.

As for the convert ratios stated above:

Taru -
715 HP
625 MP
Total: 1340

Elvaan -
982 HP
385 MP
Total: 1367

Erm...looks to be the Taru has the better deal? Since when convert hits the Taru will have 625 MP and the Elvaan 385?

Seems the Taru has almost 1:1 ration and the Elvaan closer to 2.5:1

/shrug

[Gman]

^ I can attest to the difficulty in playing a Taru Theif

I've been trying to level it to at least 15 for Sneak Attack and Treasure Hunter, and it's been anything but easy. With Ranger subbed, at level 11 I have 137 HP...you know how quick a decent challenge can take that away? ; ;

Also, the argument between Alcueid and scheme is pointless. No one can deny the distinct advantage Tarus have because not only do they have more MP than any other race, they have MUCH, MUCH more. Compare the MP difference between Taru and Hume/Mithra (they have the same), then compare the difference between Hume/Mithra and Elvaan. Difference is quite a bit smaller.

As a Taru RDM myself, I can see where scheme is coming from. I always feel like I have an advantage, and I'm not playing Taru because I am trying to make up for lack of skill. I played an Elvaan RDM till 40, and it was often a struggle, but after aquiring the full RSE set, my MP was at a respectable level. I think it was 330 at level 40.

Bottom line, scheme is just telling it like it is. Sure if you want to spend millions upon millions converting HP->MP (with the end result being Taru-like stats) then you can, but it would be expensive, and it would mean not being able to load up on MND and INT gear. Tarus are designed to have high MP and INT by nature, so they have a significant advantage as a mage,all other things being equal.

I will however admit that RDM can get away with having lower MP because of convert and refresh. Sure Tarus will always have more, but they wont always need it. I've seen very efficient Elvaan and Hume RDM's so skill plays a huge part.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Alcueid
>Okay, so you agree that Taru RDMs are built to be the best mages

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. I said it is easier to have mp with a taru redmage than any other race. With white mages and summoners and blackmages, I would not argue that tarus are best at these jobs.

But what I am trying to say is that Elvaan, Mithra, and Hume can also achieve the 1:1 ratio starting at around level 61 if they spend the time getting the right equipment.

And because of the higher number of +mp only equipment available to them (such as Elvaan RSE) if they achieve the 1:1 ratio, their hp and mp pool are slightly greater than that of the Tarutaru.

>But I'm sure it must be a walk in the park, having to find a level 91 Goldsmith, 92 Leathercrafter, and 100 Clothcrafter to make you all the cursed items

That's what an auction house is for moron.

>It must also be easy to kill Byakko or Genbu for the crown abjuration, Nidhogg/King Behemoth/Aspidochelone for the dalmatica abjuration, Fafnir/Genbu for the mitten abjuration, Seiryu/Suzaku for the slacks abjuration, and Fafnir/Nidhogg for the pumps abjuration. Yep, easy as pie, anyone could do it.

All of the four gods are trigger pop NMs, and pretty easy to defeat.

>Oh, and that RSE vs. RSE thing? That's hilarious, but who in their right mind wears RSE as a Taru RDM? Are you kidding me?

That's exactly my point. No one wears RSE as a Tarutaru rdm, but Elvaans have godly RSEs that they can wear as a rdm, that boosts their hp/mp totals above that of a tarutaru.

So basically, your argument boils down to:
"Using highly sought after and rare hp->mp equipment, at high levels (read: lv73+), an elvaan red mage can have 'more' mp than a taru at the same level."

First of all - false. No matter what you do, you will not have more MP than a taru who wants to have mp. It's as simple as that. If a taru choose to focus on MP, there's simply no way in hell that you could possibly have more mp. A taru will have around 200 more mp than you to start with...so basically, you could have a vivian's ring, a cassie ring, and 2 peices of zenith gear... guess what - you just got what a taru has BASE. But by wearing this gear, you lose out on wearing +int/+mnd rings, and you lose out on wearing the errant gear. All in all, you'll lose somewhere around 20 (12 from errant, 8 from rings) int or mnd in gear. So congratulations, in order to reach the base level of taru MP, you have to give up 20 points in the two most important stats for your job. Some people might argue that stats aren't the most important thing in the world (myself being one of them), but a 20 point difference isn't something you can just ignore. Add that the taru will probably have about ~10 int more base, adding up to a 30 point difference, can mean the difference between a mob living or dying when you try to kill it.

So basically, what it comes down to is that no matter what you do, a taru will be a better red mage than you. Even if you wore full zenith gear (doing so means you give up wearing any of the gear that's better suited to being a rdm). If you don't believe me...here's a rundown peice-by-peice of why using the Zenith set is stupid, and even if it equalizes the MP difference it means you sacrifice a lot.

::Head::
Errant Hat: Def: 28 STR: -2 DEX: -2 VIT: -2 AGI: -2 INT: 3 MND: 3 CHR: 3 Enmity: -5
Zenith Crown: Def: 30 INT: 3 MND: 3 Convert HP to MP: 50 Enhances "Resist Silence" Effect
Difference: Zenith adds -50 hp +50 mp, Errant gives -5 enmity. I'd rather wear the rdm AF hat:
Def: 23 MP: 20 INT: 3 Elemental Magic Skill: 10 Enhances "Fast Cast" Effect
Difference between AF and Zenith:
-30 mp, +50 hp, 0 int, -3 mnd, +10 elemental magic skill, enhancing "Fast Cast". For a difference of 30 mp, I'd much rather wear the AF hat. Not only does it look cooler, it performs better.

You could also go with the crimson head peice:
Def: 34 HP: 20 MP: 20 Adds "Regen" Effect Enfeebling Magic Skill: 10
Difference between the two:
+70 hp, -30 mp, +10 enfeebling magic skill.
Note, an elvaan wouldn't neccesarily want to wear this, as it will negatively affect his ability to get the 1:1 convert ratio. However, this is nearly ideal for a taru rdm - keeps the same convert ratio, and adds to the thing they look for most - 10 enfeebling magic skill. Most important thing imo for a rdm.

::Body::
Errant Houppelande: Def: 42 STR: -7 DEX: -7 VIT: -7 AGI: -7 INT: 10 MND: 10 CHR: 10 Enmity: -3 MP Regeneration While Healing: 5
Dalmatica: Def: 45 Magic Defense Bonus: 5 Enhances Resist Paralyze Effect Convert HP to MP: 50
I'd definately pick the houppelande. Important difference between the two:
+10 int, +10 mnd, -3 enmity, +5 mp recovered while healing, +50 hp, -50 mp.
Only thing you gain with Dalmatica is 50 mp, while I gain 10 to both of my important stats, -3 enmity, and +5 mp recovery.

Or, as a taru, you could pick to wear the Crimson body peice instead. Stats:
Def: 52 HP: 40 MP: 40 INT: 10 MND: 10 Breath Damage Taken: -10%
Difference between it and zenith:
+90 hp, -10 mp, +10 int, +10 mnd.
Personally, I'd pick this over the dalmatica any day. It's not good for an elvaan though, as it doesn't help their convert ratio any, while this keeps a taru's convert ratio identical...just gives more HP and MP.

::Hands::
Zenith Mitts: Def: 23 Magic Attack Bonus: 5 Convert HP to MP: 50
Crimson Finger Gauntlets: Def: 26 HP: 20 MP: 20 Ranged Accuracy: 10 Ranged Attack: 10 Dark Magic Skill: 10
Errant Cuffs: Def: 20 HP: -20 MP: 20 INT: 5 Enmity: -2
I'd give the nod to the Zenith Mitts here. +50 mp and 5-10% damage on nukes is more important than anything offered on the other peices. Keep in mind, however, that this slot on a taru can be used to get very close to 1:1, and not lose anything to an Elvaan also wearing it.

:ants::
Errant Slops: Def: 38 STR: -5 DEX: -5 VIT: -5 AGI: -5 INT: 7 MND: 7 CHR: 7 Enmity: -3
Crimson Cuisses: Def: 43 HP: 25 MP: 25 Vs. Fire: 20 Vs. Water: 20 VS. Lightning: 20 Vs. Dark: 20 Movement Speed: 12%
Allakazham doesn't have the stats on the zenith pants, but I'm fairly sure they're -50 hp +50 mp and some other useless stat.
Bottom line is, I'd wear Crimson Cuisses unless I really needed the mnd/int.
Difference between the two:
+75 hp, -25 mp, 12% movement speed is handy

::Shoes::
Errant Pigaches: Def: 18 HP: -20 MP: 20 MND: 5 Enmity: -2
Duelist Boots: Def: 15 MP: 15 MND: 4 Dodge: 5 Magic Attack Bonus: 4
Zenith Pumps: Def: 20 INT: 2 CHR: 2 Convert HP to MP: 50
Def: 24 HP: 15 MP: 15 DEX: 3 AGI: 3 Vs. Ice: 20 Vs. Earth: 20 Vs. Wind: 20 Vs. Light: 20
Here I'd have to give the nod to the Duelist Boots. Magic Attack Bonus +4 will give a much bigger increase in damage, as well as a reduction in resists, than 2 int. In addition, you gain some MND over the zenith set.


Note, that not once was Zenith really "ideal" for a rdm, other than granting +mp.

Basically, I'll say what I think a taru would wear at 75, and we'll see how an elvaan in full zenith stacks up to him.

Taru:
Head: Crimson Mask
Def: 34 HP: 20 MP: 20 Adds "Regen" Effect Enfeebling Magic Skill: 10
Body: Crimson Scale Mail
Def: 52 HP: 40 MP: 40 INT: 10 MND: 10 Breath Damage Taken: -10%
Hands: Zenith Mitts
Def: 23 Magic Attack Bonus: 5 Convert HP to MP: 50
Pants: Crimson Cuisses
Def: 43 HP: 25 MP: 25 Vs. Fire: 20 Vs. Water: 20 VS. Lightning: 20 Vs. Dark: 20 Movement Speed: 12%
Shoes: Duelist Boots
Def: 15 MP: 15 MND: 4 Dodge: 5 Magic Attack Bonus: 4

Totals:
+35 hp, +150 mp, +10 enfeebling Magic Skill, +14 mnd, +10 int, Magic Attack Bonus: 9, and 12% movement speed (always handy )
Note, a taru will probably have about 100 or so more hp than mp...so this setup will put him at just about 1:1 convert ratio. Note, he doesn't lose ANYTHING significant at all.

Elvaan wearing full zenith gains the following:
-250 hp, +250 mp, Magic Attack Bonus: 5, +5 int

So the difference between the two is the following (for a taru wearing his gear as compared to full zenith):
+285 hp, -100 mp, Magic Attack bonus: 4, +5 int, +14 mnd, +10 enfeebling magic skill, and 12% movement speed.

So in 5 peices, not only have you NOT managed to get 1:1 convert ratio, NOT managed to get the same amount of MP as a similiar level taru, you also lose out on many *significant* advantages that the taru will have gained. You think 14 mnd and 10 enfeebling magic skill won't make a differene in landing paralyze/slow? You think +4 Mgc.Atk.Bonus and +5 int won't make a taru (who already has higher base int) able to nuke better? You think 12% movement speed wouldn't be handy?

Do you really think 100 mp is worth losing all the rest?
Rest of response in next post.

[AtraposBLM]

I was so busy owning your arguement that I didn't realize how long the post got. Here's the rest of my response, without interruption:

SO - given all that, explain to me how gear means the races are equal. Yes, an elvaan in full zenith gear would be better than your average taru without any abjurations, without any expensive gear, etc. However, a taru has the option to use more rdm-suited gear that you sacrifice by choosing zenith. And yes, getting the abjurations might not be that bad once you're in an established HNM ls. If you try to tell me that that same HNM ls would be willing to get you TWO sets of abjuration...either you're in New Company (JP ls on midgardsormr), or you're a lucky son of a bitch. Most people consider themselves lucky to get one or two peices, let alone entire sets.

So, once again, given equal player skill, a taru rdm will be simply *better* than an elvaan rdm. Debate over, discussion over, you're done. No more spouting shit about how zenith makes it all better - zenith gear is mostly for non-taru blm's in the first place (and even then, it's not that great). In the second place, I just showed you what happens when an elvaan goes full out +mp, and a taru balances his choices. You have a gimp to make up for - your lack of MP. A taru has no such crutch, and as such, can tailor his gear to do his JOB the best, without having to worry about a limit that his race places on him.

And just because I have to - you've been thoroughly owned. Please stop spouting your crap.

[DrSerpico]

Hehehehe

<Insert funny picture with owned message here>

Not to be prejudice, but I feel that these kinds of things happen more often wiht elvaans (being unable to see racial deficiency) than with other races, but then again, maybe I'm just biased.

Taru will always have an edge, simply due to the lack of impact from mnd on healing ^^

They kick everyones ass in int, so landing a bit higher dmg nukes and intbased enfeebles are a cinch. Then they have the extra mp for one more nuke/heal/gravity/escape/<insert other partysaving spell>

That being said, I'm still a mithra rdm. Mithra Rdm + Frog Pants + Savage Blade > ALL! It's just like being a taru mnk (also in my set, lol!) although not THAT gimped... When we hit 71 (72 for savage, no?) Taru mnk and Mithra RDM become only partially gimp.

I'm still happy with my mithra tho. It would be to easy otherwise ^^

Sum up: Face it, you = pwned, rdm taru is better than rdm <any race> if it's the exact same player behind the keyboard. And the same gear. Or same amount of gil worth of gear. (if you're not stupid and give taru enhance sword, and elv stuff WORTH the gil.)

Sorry, but this time elvaanity wont prevail. Give it up ^^

[MMan530]

Nice arguments to everyone. I love playing a Hume red mage and I would never, ever, ever, ever change that. Perhaps they aren't the best, maybe they are? I honestly don't care- because hume works perfectly for me. I have no MP trouble, no Int trouble, no mnd trouble, but I've put a lot of time into my stats and know how to play a hume red mage effectively.

Tarus are great for their int and mp, but it all boils down to your personal ability. The worst mages that I've ever seen were tarus, believe it or not. They had no idea how to effectively use their mp and even their excessive pool couldn't save them.

The point is: this arguing will always end in a stalemate. Why? Because you're comparing perfect conditions (effective taru players vs. other race players) in a perfect situation (similar/equivalent eq, same day, same random calculations, etc). That situation is completely unfeasible. The arguments that people are giving aren't fallable, but the argument topic itself is.

It always amazes me that such a good forum can spend so much time arguing over things like this (or the classic JP parties vs. American parties argument, etc.).

[kyle5547]

Ok....I want to say 2 things:

1. It really doesn't matter what race you play as RDM. Pretty much it boils down to SKILL. Ive partied with all different races as RDM and I've seen horrible taru RDM's and I've seen really good ones, hell Ive seen awesome galka RDM's. Basically its all about skill and knowing how to play RDM. So just thinking that by being taru you are set to be the best mage or have it easier or whatnot, its pretty much worthless if you suck at RDM.

Race might dictate on what gear you might need or how you will play in a party, but I just think that if youre a good RDM thats all that matters.

2. Convert ratio? WTH? who cares if your convert ratio is 1:1 or 2:1 or whatever. The purpose of it is: you run out of MP....you convert and get MP to full. Simple as that. I dont care if I use up more HP to get less MP, I just care that I can keep doing my job in a party.