So RNG got stiffed (again)?

[Hyrist]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

All I have to say for all the jobs currently 'falling behind' due to this is that hopefully this means you're next on the list of adjustments.

RNG, MNK (thanks to the HTH adjustment.), RDM, WHM, BLM, SMN all could use a boost right now in one way or another. I'm sure this hasn't passed SE's attentions at all, but they figure they can handle one major adjustment at a time, weigh in on how it shifts the balance, and accommodate that in the next adjustment wave.

With at least 2 new jobs coming to add to the 18 already out, we really don't know how things are going to be impacted. BLU mage was a rather large impact when it first came out, and now Corsair has it's spot in the limelight. We've yet to determine how much of an effect the new Puppemaster Additions/Adjustments will do for them, but the game has defiantly taken several major shifts in the legacy of ToAU. I expect WotG to be the same, if not more so.

[Mhurron]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

All I have to say for all the jobs currently 'falling behind' due to this is that hopefully this means you're next on the list of adjustments.
RNG, MNK (thanks to the HTH adjustment.), RDM, WHM, BLM, SMN all could use a boost right now in one way or another. I'm sure this hasn't passed SE's attentions at all, but they figure they can handle one major adjustment at a time, weigh in on how it shifts the balance, and accommodate that in the next adjustment wave.
With at least 2 new jobs coming to add to the 18 already out, we really don't know how things are going to be impacted. BLU mage was a rather large impact when it first came out, and now Corsair has it's spot in the limelight. We've yet to determine how much of an effect the new Puppemaster Additions/Adjustments will do for them, but the game has defiantly taken several major shifts in the legacy of ToAU. I expect WotG to be the same, if not more so.

No ones going to take you seriously.

[Skoal]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

skoal: sorry your i pay for dmg on drg by leveling parry and evasion on nin doesnt work for me. how is parry and evasion helping your dmg on drg? it doenst. its a GIVEN that you have to pay for your job to get it up to date in gear. thats not what kitty was saying. its after you cap out and gotten all the gear you want, you STOP PAYING for that job. everytime you go out all you need is food and power/oils: just like everyone else. I have nearly all the gear I want on rng but I stilll need to shell out 100k for a stack of arrows each time I go out. I highly doubt you do that on drg or any other melee.

Whhhhoooosssshhhh.

Please reread my statement. NVM I will spell it out for you. My parrying and evasion ARE NOT DUE TO THE FACT THAT I LEVELED A JOB THAT IT IS EASY TO SKILL THESE ON. I do not have nin @ 75. I got both of these leveled from soloing while I was seeking party. This is how I paid for my road to 75. I didn't level the coolest job in town. Not every rng has leveled rng just because its the cool thing to do. All I hear is "I pay money to play my job so it should be the best.". Its no surprise that rangers have to buy arrows. Its kinda known when you first start playing the job.

I will never stop paying for my job, no one will unless they quit. Sure you pay more than I do but you get benefits I don't. My initial post wasn't a drg vs rng like OMG made it out to be. She finally made a good point about rngs that other dd's couldn't do. That was my goal of that post and it worked.

Its easy to look down on other jobs that were beneath you in damage and other capabilities. It seems really easy to say that other dd's were jealous and now its your turn to not be top dog.

Please if you are gonna insult me make sure you read what I wrote. I try to do that for everyone I am having a discussion with.

The thing I am still hearing is that the more money you have the better a rng will be. Is rng such a braindead job that all you have to do is through money at it?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I will never stop paying for my job

Explain this because, with the exceptions of food, sneak oils and prisim powders, you will eventually hit an end at your spending for a melee job. Tonko and Shehei don't even really count.

Its easy to look down on other jobs that were beneath you in damage and other capabilities. It seems really easy to say that other dd's were jealous and now its your turn to not be top dog.

There shouldn't be any "turns," only balance. If you think there should be a "turn" you're haboring some resentment toward RNG, WAR, MNK, BLM and some others. And other DDs were jealous, other DDs did complain. But they did not realize the staggering difference in the investment RNG takes and what they bring to the table.

Its not that we think we should be outdamaging you by a wide margin, but we should be a couple steps ahead because we can't simply take that arrow and resell it.

The original problem with RNG is that Slug Shot and Sidewinder ignored all defense penalties. That meant that there was no real distinction between a RNG that used scorpion arrows and the RNG that used Kabura or Silver bullets.

When the nerf came and mob DEF vs STR/Attack equations were changed, RNG could no longer use Slugwinders to ignore mob defense. By itself this reduced some DD output, but in time RNGs discovered that /WAR made up for the loss. However, the accuracy portion of the new ranged formulas did not account for food and gear, making RNGs a lot less accurate than they were supposed to be.

The Oct 2006 update changed that, not only were positioning requirements made more flexible, food and gear were once again recognized in all damage and accuracy equations for RNG. This meant those that skew to NIN are more accurate than ever, and those that /WAR deal more damage. It didn't bring RNG back to pre-nerf status, but it closed the gap of what was lost quite considerably.

Trends on fighting T and VT mobs made it hard for us to stand out, though, so any WAR or MNK could output similar numbers to a RNG in Damage over time vs RNG's damage bursts. RNGs are like DRK and SAM, we're spike damage dealers, we don't build TP quickly, but we deal our damage in big bursts.

But don't simply equip and weapon in hand and get that damage, we pay for that damage with each and every shot. Not even COR can say that, they can actually get away with a little sword melee here and there between Slug Shots, but they can even collapse into a full support role if they want to.

RNG can't do that. We have our utilities that no other jobs can bring, but we still are defined by our damage in the end.

The thing I am still hearing is that the more money you have the better a rng will be. Is rng such a braindead job that all you have to do is through money at it?

Is DRG such a braindead job that you can hit attack and go AFK? Statements like this do not help people see things your way.

Look at the history of what's been done to RNG and look at what needs to be done to play the job well. At the end of the day, an RNG's ability to do well will be determined by how much he's spent on ammo because once you run out of ammo, you're nothing. And if you invest the millions of gil and countless hours in endgame and now do less damage than an AH-geared DRK, how is that fair?

Let's compare BRD and COR for a moment, because this is a reasonable comparison.

A poorly geared BRD with level 1 RSE and a level 1 flute could output stronger buffs than a COR when they hit a lucky number or 11. SE originally designed COR hoping players would invite jobs that would let CORs HQ thier buffs to be comprable to BRD songs.

I didn't work out.

If I was hitting anything less than 9,10 or 11 on Chaos Roll, a gimped 75 BRD could outpace my on Minuets. Granted, "luck" is supposed to be COR's theme, but if I hit a 7 on Chaos Roll, it shouldn't have been like rolling a 2. Since the principle of Phantom Roll is actually blackjack, the higher non-lucky values I hit, the better my rolls should be because Blackjack is all about getting as close to that win as possible without goin over the limit.

And now, Phantom Rolls have been rescaled. Now a poor BRD can't outshine good COR completely.

That's balance.

And lets look at the jug pet adjustment for BST. Longer pet duration means BSTs get some of the reliablity DRGs and PUPs enjoy from thier pets. That's balance.

[Mhurron]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Just because you spend more on a job compared to another does not mean you should do better then any other job.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Just because you spend more on a job compared to another does not mean you should do better then any other job.

Like hell it does. There is no point in creating any consumable items in a game if they don't grant an advantage.

Here LET ME SPLAIN in mage 4 u 2 undrstnd:

BLM consumes vast quantities of mana to deal big damage. But does BLM get to wear heavy armor and carry big heavy weapons? No, they don't. To offset thier great power, they are physically weak and frail. To recover this mana, BLM has to rest for set amounts of time.

RNG consumes vast quanitities of items and gil to deal big damage. Dos RNG get to wear heavy armor and carry big, heavy weapons? To offset this great power, they have weak defenses and low evasion. RNG can make thier ammo last, but to recoup expenses, they must devote large amounts of time to making gil.

DRK, WAR and SAM all get heavy armor, heavy weapons and now get to do heavier damage. They don't have to rest to restore their big damage or go out and farm to replace it. They just keep swinging that two handed weapon and get TP back.

To clarify, yes, a DRK or SAM may spend time farming to get a new weapon, but they can use that weapon infinitely. RNG cannot, resources must be replenished. As beautiful as a Vali's Bow is, its all kinds of useless without ammo.

[Mhurron]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Like hell it does. There is no point in creating any consumable items in a game if they don't grant an advantage.

Unless thats how the job is played.

That is, unless you just play whatever job the bandwagon is behind.

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Skoal: Every single one of your points are based on the bitter drg mentality. I dont blame you, I really dont.

I dont care about being top dog, because last I checked, rng hasnt been top dog for quite some time. I dont care for your insecure epeen comments about rng vs drg vs drk vs wtfever. Just dont tell me I'm not entitled to dishing out some good numbers because I pour 100k just to play my job every time I do a sky/sea/dynamis run. While you on the other hand have been using the same equip you have been for the past months even years.

You still dont see the point me and kitty are trying to make. Equip upgrades are STANDARD. everyone has to deal with them however, consumables are not. Only a few jobs deal with consumables to actually be effective.

If you'd like to continue putting your foot in your mouth with statements like:

The thing I am still hearing is that the more money you have the better a rng will be. Is rng such a braindead job that all you have to do is through money at it?

then be my quest. This thread was never really about oh no, we arent top dog dd anymore because we havent been ever since the nerf a couple years ago. You're just making this into another drg vs everyone who has done more dmg than us ever.

I will never stop paying for my job, no one will unless they quit. Sure you pay more than I do but you get benefits I don't. My initial post wasn't a drg vs rng like OMG made it out to be. She finally made a good point about rngs that other dd's couldn't do. That was my goal of that post and it worked.

Its easy to look down on other jobs that were beneath you in damage and other capabilities. It seems really easy to say that other dd's were jealous and now its your turn to not be top dog.

You just contradicted yourself. You say its not about that but yet, thats how you feel...

If you can just get off your bitter drg rant for 1 second, you might see what we are talking about.

taru edit: i dont mean to insult but if you tell me again that you're paying more to go do a run in sea with ur drg than it is for my rng im going to give up on you

[Skoal]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Is DRG such a braindead job that you can hit attack and go AFK? Statements like this do not help people see things your way.

You are the only one that made this about drg. My question was more a rhetorical one then a stab at rng like yours was. My question was meant to be answered by someone who knew that my obvious question was an open door for a flood of reasons why people should still use rngs. Instead I get attacked for being a drg because I am not spending money all the time.

If some people would stop going into these rages and take a step back and look at this discussion we would get more done. I come here and give you a softball on how rngs still shines and all I get in return is (like every other time) drgs don't deserver damage. Maybe someone with a level head will give us some reasons why rngs still shines instead of attacking people who ask questions.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Unless thats how the job is played.

That is, unless you just play whatever job the bandwagon is behind.

Quiet, damage dealers are talking right now, maybe when you grow up and become one, you'll understand.

we arent top dog dd anymore because we havent been ever since the nerf a couple years ago.

Bolded for Truth. Its not exactly like RNG has had a hideous advantage in the EXP/Merit scene - which is all anyone seems to care about these days - DRG, SAM and DRK have been about even with RNG in that regard.

The ranged attack cap for ranged weapons is generally higher than that of the standard forms of attack, but now the two-hander adjustment makes it seem like even that small advantage doesn't exist.

If some people would stop going into these rages and take a step back and look at this discussion we would get more done. I come here and give you a softball on how rngs still shines and ...

"He speaks so well."

[Skoal]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

You're just making this into another drg vs everyone who has done more dmg than us ever.

I really don't want to insult you but its clear how one sided you are. You have put me into a stereotype because drgs were looked down upon for many things. My first post had nothing to do with drgs. I understand it gets confusing seeing Cid as avatar and a drg in my sig. Maybe you got all that crossed up. There is no bitter drg rant. I come here and have always tried to be helpful with all my posts. They are two ppl making this into way more than it should be, Omni and OMG. I promise if you read everything I have written with a level head, you will understand what I am saying.

I could care less about the update, all I really want from it is a new grip. I understand you guys are fighting mad. I just would appreciate you two not attacking me for what job I am. I understand that you are bitter for spending trillions of gil on your job to be good everytime you go out and play. ONCE AGAIN, I was trying to open up a discussion. Insulting people for what job they play is pretty pathetic. Putting someone in a category just because they play a certain job is probably one of the dumbest things you can do. To you drg=bitter. Stereotyping people in a game is pretty LOL worthy.


I just read what what OMG wrote about Mhurron. Here we go again with talking down to people for what job they play.

Edit:

taru edit: i dont mean to insult but if you tell me again that you're paying more to go do a run in sea with ur drg than it is for my rng im going to give up on you

Lol at you guys and your editing. I never and will never claim that I spend more money than anyone. It may have come out wrong but my intentions weren't to claim I am better than anyone. I hold no ill will towards anyone whether I was insulted or not. I just ask to not be labeled as something because of the character I play in a video game.

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I'll stop. I think this isnt going anywhere because we dont see eye to eye on things so instead of continuing this ever so pointless argument i'll just try to go back on topic.

BTW: I didnt label you skoal. I know completely well what drg are capable of and why they werent picked up in pts. I've said before that its great they get this boost along with every other 2h job. However, if dropping a 3000+dmg penta in northern thickets isnt a bit overboard and borderline ridiculous then i'm not sure what else to say. No other job has been able to drop 3000+ dmg like that on xp mobs before this update... I think the update was in the right direction but just a tad bit too much.

Has anyone tried going /war on rng since monday to see how hate is shared now? The only place i was able to go /war was in mire because shit there dies so quickly. I'd be able to take 50% of a mobs health with slugwinder. Anywhere else, like northern thickets, I'd be eating dirt with my 900 taru hp.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I really don't want to insult you but its clear how one sided you are. You have put me into a stereotype because drgs were looked down upon for many things. My first post had nothing to do with drgs. I understand it gets confusing seeing Cid as avatar and a drg in my sig. Maybe you got all that crossed up.

No.

There is no bitter drg rant. I come here and have always tried to be helpful with all my posts. They are two ppl making this into way more than it should be, Omni and OMG. I promise if you read everything I have written with a level head, you will understand what I am saying.

Did you ever read the original post? I don't think I could be more levelled headed about the matter, I'm just noting the disparity between what has changed and what hasn't. You don't even care about the change or what it does, so you don't bother to take notes.

I could care less about the update, all I really want from it is a new grip. I understand you guys are fighting mad. I just would appreciate you two not attacking me for what job I am.

There's a difference between using something as an example and interpeting something as an attack because something you identify with was used in said example. You fired the first shot there, I fired back showing you were setting a poor example for your argument. Hitting auto-attack isn't all your job does and neither is mine all about spending gil.

All we have does try to make you understand investments and returns. Explain why I should pay more than other jobs to do less damage output. You can't do that and make any sense.

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

All we have does try to make you understand investments and returns. Explain why I should pay more than other jobs to do less damage output. You can't do that and make any sense.

odd, im agreeing with what kitty has to say for once.

[Callisto]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I honestly don't see how RNG is 'nerfed'...maybe I missed something, granted I don't have a great knowledge of what the S-E implemented 'RNG nerf' back in the day entailed. I do routinely see RNGs dealing out a whole shit-ton of damage, firing 1500+ weaponskills like it's nothing at all. I only played RNG up to 37 so I don't know how it is endgame, but it really doesn't seem too far behind any other DD jobs when I watch them in merit parties. Yes, you don't get extra damage relative to the amount you spend on ammo...but you also aren't shelling out for Haubys, Scorpion Harnesses, Bomb Cores, Speed Belts, Black Pieces, Sniper's Rings, Forager's Mantles, Haguns, Barone/Hydra pieces, and Mezraqs. Your consumable costs are certainly much higher, but gear-wise RNG gets off pretty easy, as most of the best pieces are rare/ex, or not more than a couple hundred thousand gil.