So RNG got stiffed (again)?

[ifandbut]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Oh, so it's okay for 2handers to do a shit load of damage, with buffs for free, while rangers have to pay out of our pocket to do our damage that's now only a fraction of what 2handers can do? I'm sorry but that's BULLSHIT.

I completely agree. And it does not have to be a damage advantage, it could be acc or something. I remember leveling my Hunter in WoW and having near 100% acc while my melee friend would be lucky if he had 50% acc. It was not because I had better gear or was lucky, it was because I had to pay for gear/weapons/AMMO while my friend only had to pay for gear and weapons.

Besides, if you think that using consumables should not give you an advantage then I think Utsusemi could use a big nerf, also nerf Ninja enfeebles so they stop overwriting RDM's. Hell, without the consumables advantage we would only have one real tank job in the game.

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Yet another meager justification of price relation versus combat performance.

It's becoming extremely kitsch.

How much time/money you dedicate to a job is not near equivalent to the damage, accuracy, etc, that your job should get. It's just not going to happen. You should practically accept the responsibilities of your job and do it to full completion, without necessarily expecting a WHM to outdamage a SAM (because that's not necessarily the purpose of the job, but I'm sure deep down WHMs want to DD as well...Kinda like Freud's theory of male vs female genitalia)

On that scale, is it effective when you have people of the same job, and one job is buying|accumulating more than just gear, while the other is just whoring an AH?

Please. Seriously. That's not even a tittle of reasonable argument to think that you're the only job that has to constantly spend gil for items that enhance your performance.

[Taskmage]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Turns out the discussion is pretty moot for now: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/new...-aug-30-a.html

2-hander damage at the moment is "incorrect." Possibly best to wait and see how the balance actually turns out.

[Sevv]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

So wow this thread was ummm constructive. I couldn't read past page 2 because I wanted to find and slap half of you. Let us look at the update in whole ok.

Your primary 3 big jobs were War, Mnk, Nin for dd's.

mnk-> had pdif screwed over now really can't keep up with the best gear, and yes this means Black belt, shura, haidate, osode, etc.

nin-> Still a good tank doesn't out parse most of the melee at this point.

war/nin-> is still good for the high dot and rampage damage, but very easily out parsed by war/sam with gaxe.

War/Ridill-> Has been outparsed fully merited by unmerited drgs, drks, sams.

I remember bbq was one of the people at the fore front of the nerf tp burns, well started as nerf nerf nerf, then moved to on par.

You all feel rangers got the shaft hard, the truth is rangers did not get nerfed. They stayed the same as before, you may be thinking why didn't rangers get buffed along side two handers. Well ranger isn't a two hander, yes they can use staff, I also don't know of any ranger who tested it out. You have to test with a staff looking at ws and per hit damage, because ratt is not a stat you can see.

Ranger pre-update was still one of the most lethal damage dealers in endgame. This is mainly why they didn't get a big boost along side the two handers. Of course you are going to get shit from 2h about wtf get over it, rng still puts up impressive dot and ws #'s without the boost.

On the pay for ammo part, if you argue you pay more for ammo so you should be the top dd, please quit ranger. You shouldn't be playing ranger because it deals the most damage and you pwnz all the nubs! You should be playing Ranger because it is what you enjoy. Ammo costs where known when you signed up to level the job, if you leveled the job because of arrow burn pts then you are a bandwagon rng, like people who leveled war for tp burns. Rangers did not get hurt by this update, and the two handed weapons are going back into check somewhat the update was far too much, 1.0 instead of 2.0 was insane but so fun.

A small side note:

BBQ if you want to attempt to say drg is a brain dead job again I will call you on it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Yet another meager justification of price relation versus combat performance.

It's becoming extremely kitsch.

The power that Utsusemi gives players in general is hardly something I would consider "meager." Players willingly spend for the defense it provides and if it was taken away from players, the uproar would be much, much larger than it ever was for any particular job.

How much time/money you dedicate to a job is not near equivalent to the damage, accuracy, etc, that your job should get. It's just not going to happen. You should practically accept the responsibilities of your job and do it to full completion

Have you even been reading what the RNGs here have said? We dedicate ourselves to each aspect of this job when it comes to obtaining gear, just as much as any other good player in any job would AND we are willing to spend for our damage. However, we are not willing to spend to do signifigantly less damage than other jobs.

Let's look at the checks and balances of other jobs for a second here

• A NIN's paper-thin defenses exist because of the defensive power they gain from Utsusemi.
• SMN can command the power of gods and they give up a ton of HP for a load of MP to do it.
• RDM is able to do everything decently, yet they excel at nothing but enfeebling and enhancing.
• A PLD must sacrifice most of his potential damage output in order to protect his allies.
• A WAR deals big damage with the threat of taking damage directly in return.
• BRD and COR empower thier allies at the cost of being completely reliant on said allies.

Thusly, RNG and BLM gain power in exchange for frailty, much like SMN does. A BLM is dependant on RDM, BRD, COR and equipment to ensure they can keep those nukes coming. A RNG is dependant on his gil and craftings skills to keep that ammunition coming. This is why they rightly deserve the power they weild and they work no less than other jobs to get thier power.

If a RNG overplay his hand, he's sure to die almost instantly, just like the BLM that overnukes.

BBQ if you want to attempt to say drg is a brain dead job again I will call you on it.

Jesus Christ, upteenth time, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE, M'KAY?

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

...

i dont think op said we got nerfed, just left out. considering that typical rngs drop 1000-1500 sidewinders while penta now does 3000+ on g.colibris. i think that's being left out but not nerfed.

people are mistaking being omitted and being nerf as the same thing. its not.

anyhow, looks like the 2h update -was- off. im sure it'll be better but not ridiculously crazy like it is currently.

what urks me even more is that where the fuck are all the qa people before they released this patch? its not like this isnt something that you cant easily and readily test!

[Taskmage]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

what urks me even more is that where the fuck are all the qa people before they released this patch? its not like this isnt something that you cant easily and readily test!

This thought goes through my head a lot. Hey guys, I've got a deal for you. I could have a job and you could have a game that isn't broken.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

...

i dont think op said we got nerfed, just left out.

It was my mistake, I assumed people had reading comprehension skills. I was wrong.

[Sevv]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

The power that Utsusemi gives players in general is hardly something I would consider "meager." Players willingly spend for the defense it provides and if it was taken away from players, the uproar would be much, much larger than it ever was for any particular job.
Have you even been reading what the RNGs here have said? We dedicate ourselves to each aspect of this job when it comes to obtaining gear, just as much as any other good player in any job would AND we are willing to spend for our damage. However, we are not willing to spend to do signifigantly less damage than other jobs.

Yes the update was needed but it was over done. Rangers still do even with this update great damage. I have seen some amazing slugs/winders/barrages pre this update that would make people go O.o. This update actaully gave rangers more chances to go /war or /sam because with 2h doing alot more damage it evened the playing field of hate. Some of the rangers in my linkshell loved this they can go all out do similar damage to the two handers and stay alive.

Let's look at the checks and balances of other jobs for a second here

• A NIN's paper-thin defenses exist because of the defensive power they gain from Utsusemi.
• SMN can command the power of gods and they give up a ton of HP for a load of MP to do it.
• RDM is able to do everything decently, yet they excel at nothing but enfeebling and enhancing.
• A PLD must sacrifice most of his potential damage output in order to protect his allies.
• A WAR deals big damage with the threat of taking damage directly in return.
• BRD and COR empower thier allies at the cost of being completely reliant on said allies.

Nin-> I can get my defense to 600
Smn-> Any mage willing sacrifices hp for mp.
Rdm-> They still excel at something, a better thing would be giving up specialization of white or black magic for use of both.
Pld-> on point
War-> died 10 times in sandy ; ;
Brd/cor-> More true for brd then cor

Thusly, RNG and BLM gain power in exchange for frailty, much like SMN does. A BLM is dependant on RDM, BRD, COR and equipment to ensure they can keep those nukes coming. A RNG is dependant on his gil and craftings skills to keep that ammunition coming. This is why they rightly deserve the power they weild and they work no less than other jobs to get thier power.
If a RNG overplay his hand, he's sure to die almost instantly, just like the BLM that overnukes.

Pretty much on point but I still see it more of the check of rng's power being gil. Just my opinion.

Jesus Christ, upteenth time, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE, M'KAY?

I didn't read past the 2nd page, this would be why I didn't rant on it.

...
i dont think op said we got nerfed, just left out. considering that typical rngs drop 1000-1500 sidewinders while penta now does 3000+ on g.colibris. i think that's being left out but not nerfed.

If you were talking about e saying nerf, I didn't quote bbq on it saying bbq said they got nerfed. I was talking more in general to the many rangers I have seen post and talk about in general. If i don't quote someone I usually talk in general.

people are mistaking being omitted and being nerf as the same thing. its not.
anyhow, looks like the 2h update -was- off. im sure it'll be better but not ridiculously crazy like it is currently.

Agreed.

what urks me even more is that where the fuck are all the qa people before they released this patch? its not like this isnt something that you cant easily and readily test!

You know that dev team thinks AV is very easy to beat, and can do it in Af. They probably tested it and sai ya it is fine.

It was my mistake, I assumed people had reading comprehension skills. I was wrong.

You have been around long enough to know we don't!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Pretty much on point but I still see it more of the check of rng's power being gil. Just my opinion.

Not all of us just level NIN as sub and call it a day, though. We put in just as much subjob work as most melees do. A "complete" RNG would want /NIN, /WAR, /SAM and even /WHM before calling it a day. I still have /SAM to work out, but only because I find it horrifically boring to level.

Regardless of the re-adjustment, still gonna take a break from RNG to enjoy COR, BST, DRG and PUP changes. I'm extremely burnt out on the sky grind and ground bullshitting. Merged with an LS recently, was only supposed to be sky and Limbus and then they started hanging grounds over us and wanting to fill each hour of each day with an event. Ick. Then they started giving people grief for not logging on for HNMs.

Um yeah, my friends have jobs. I'm looking for a job. Making money to keep, you know, my home is kind of important to me, just like my Taru NIN buddy's wife and his responisilities at the hospital are more important. Boo hoo if I'm not there to help you get your BB, Ridill or Defending Ring.

I might not have been willing to plunk down gil to do less damage, but I'm even less willing to plunk down my gil on people being asshats to my friends. Maybe that's just why I was slightly more pissed about this update to 2H.

[VZX]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I also don't recall any RNG complaining that it wasn't fair when no one could touch RNG damage either, so it must have been fine. As long as you have the advantage everything is fair right?

RNG still got the damage potential
2hander have the same potential, but now they can obtain it easily on top of their haste effect

RNG need more ranged attack and potent haste. And probably accuracy fix. I don't feel my accuracy high enough.
That's it.

[VZX]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

war/nin-> is still good for the high dot and rampage damage, but very easily out parsed by war/sam with gaxe.
War/Ridill-> Has been outparsed fully merited by unmerited drgs, drks, sams.
I remember bbq was one of the people at the fore front of the nerf tp burns, well

Where did you get this news?
The only 2 handers that I see as "broken" is SAM.
It feels slow when WAR switch to GAxe, regardless they can eat 6% of mob HP in 1 hit.

You all feel rangers got the shaft hard, the truth is rangers did not get nerfed. They stayed the same as before, you may be thinking why didn't rangers get buffed along side two handers. Well ranger isn't a two hander, yes they can use staff, I also don't know of any ranger who tested it out. You have to test with a staff looking at ws and per hit damage, because ratt is not a stat you can see.
Ranger pre-update was still one of the most lethal damage dealers in endgame. This is mainly why they didn't get a big boost along side the two handers. Of course you are going to get shit from 2h about wtf get over it, rng still puts up impressive dot and ws #'s without the boost.

We have shitty DoT

[Sevv]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Not all of us just level NIN as sub and call it a day, though. We put in just as much subjob work as most melees do. A "complete" RNG would want /NIN, /WAR, /SAM and even /WHM before calling it a day. I still have /SAM to work out, but only because I find it horrifically boring to level.

Where in all of my posts did I say rng/nin onry, you take no time for subjobs?

I can sub almost any job In the game, because I took the time. I rng/war and rng/sam personally not a big fan of rng/nin.

Regardless of the re-adjustment, still gonna take a break from RNG to enjoy COR, BST, DRG and PUP changes. I'm extremely burnt out on the sky grind and ground bullshitting. Merged with an LS recently, was only supposed to be sky and Limbus and then they started hanging grounds over us and wanting to fill each hour of each day with an event. Ick. Then they started giving people grief for not logging on for HNMs.

Exactly play the way you have fun, cor got such a huge boost along with beast, you should be able to have some real fun.

Um yeah, my friends have jobs. I'm looking for a job. Making money to keep, you know, my home is kind of important to me, just like my Taru NIN buddy's wife and his responisilities at the hospital are more important. Boo hoo if I'm not there to help you get your BB, Ridill or Defending Ring.

I have been to 2 fafnir claims and 2 ridill drops over here, my group has seen like 5 ridills a bunch of n heads and some nidhoggs. They way my ls is if I don't want to go I don't have to it works great.

I might not have been willing to plunk down gil to do less damage, but I'm even less willing to plunk down my gil on people being asshats to my friends. Maybe that's just why I was slightly more pissed about this update to 2H.

You are not doing less damage tho... less in terms of certain jobs but ranger damage remains unchanged.

RNG still got the damage potential
2hander have the same potential, but now they can obtain it easily on top of their haste effect
RNG need more ranged attack and potent haste. And probably accuracy fix. I don't feel my accuracy high enough.
That's it.

Haste doesn't effect rangers delay. So what you are asking for is arrowburn only right?

Where did you get this news?
The only 2 handers that I see as "broken" is SAM.
It feels slow when WAR switch to GAxe, regardless they can eat 6% of mob HP in 1 hit.
We have shitty DoT

All 2h math is broken, sam is by far the most broken tho.
Use gaxe in my tp setup and you can see how slow gaxe isn't.

I forgot holy bolt damage dot is shit, let me piss on rngs while they down right?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Sev, the Snapshot merit ability is Haste for RNGs. The problem is that its just not enough and standard forms of Haste don't affect ranged attacks to start with.

I could pull out my Loxley bow, but that's not quite the haste we're looking for. Not to mention its lower WS damage and eats arrows like cotton candy. Its for sensitive pulls, that's about it.

As for Holy Bolts, maybe your HB damage is crap. I almost proc 35-40+ extra damage per shot now.

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

lol. Doubt w/e;
I go through these things in like a matter of days. I spam bolts for TP, pulling, and hitting things (like Faust) w/ /range. But as one would assume that when you do see THF, they don't use ranged attacks at all while fighting ~ I do, all the time.
And yeah it's very much hyperbole in the sense of making a moot point, but I'm a say that a good majority of my gil goes towards Ammo (Have you noticed the price of Paralysis Arrows, and the other 2 bolt quivers that I do use as well? ), Food, and tools.
I believe strongly that a good player uses every tool that he's given; That's what I intend to do irregardless of what I parse vs other jobs.

Yea i do doubt that. Funny how you pick Faust as your example because who the heck wants to melee on faust? so thats youre only option is to tp with rng atk.

What of in dynamis or merit? you dont tp off rng attack thus you wont be using ammo more than an rng does. Again, quite an exaggeration.

You're right about a player using every tool hes given but thats not the point we are talking about. You made a statement about using just as much ammo as a rng. I just called b.s.

You're also missing another major point about the whole I spend money to deal dmg. For a rng, I need to spend gil to do my best attacks. I cant rely on my dagger or axe skill to do any worth while dmg. For you however, ranged is a choice. You choose to use ranged more than other thfs. great for you BUT, you still have your bread and butter: the dagger.

If I dont spend money on arrows and bullets I'm useless. You arent. Do you see the difference? Yes I chose this job and yes I like it. However, most ppl think ppl who play rng must be rich to just throw gil on consumbles. not really the case. Some rng (and at times I've been in this boat) barely get by on ammo. So you what do you say to the poor rngs that still continue to play their job?