So RNG got stiffed (again)?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm taking it all with a grain of salt for now and assuming there's a bit of overreacting and all the tests haven't been done yet. It seems, though, that the two-hand update now makes RNG look a bit less signifigant and the introduction of Steel Bullets for COR doens't help matters.

With the damage numbers I see flying around, it makes me wonder (yet again) why RNG was nerfed in the first place. Maybe there's something coming in the next update. Maybe SE just likes to tilt the balance of power, but it doesn't seem 1 STR = 1 Attack for RNG like it does now DRK, DRG, SAM and GA WAR.

Not that I'm complaining about other jobs getting those buffs, I'm actually considering picking up DRG again, along with my BST. And I'm not exactly angered by these changes, just kinda baffled why RNG wasn't a factor since we share the high delay issue.

At any rate, I'm gonna take the silver lining side of this and look at it as an opportunity to revisit and level the other jobs I love, and selling some RNG ammo and maybe BRD stuff (while its still has value ) would help get those jobs started again.

I truely do enjoy RNG, but it was always kind of a fallback for my COR and now there's very little doubt COR can ever be grossly overshadowed like it once was. I'd like to devote most of my endgame time to improving it.

So I suppose RNG is on wait-and-see status. Not ready to throw in the towel, but I definately don't mind a break.

[Mhurron]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Oh thank god, I was starting to worry the world was becoming all smiles and sunshine.

[Aeni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

BBQ~

I'm sorry. But I've hated RNGs for a very long time. Through all those "glory days" that they were enjoying their limelight, I for one don't think RNGs deserve anything gewd for several more years.

But that's just a bitter DRK speaking.

[Malacite]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?




1 STR = 1 ATK now?! Is it a safe bet to assume 1 DEX = 1 Accuracy now also for 2 handers?! THAT'S AWESOME!

@. @ Also, my SAM loves this update. Dear god Gekko/Yukki/Kasha are sick now.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

BBQ~

I'm sorry. But I've hated RNGs for a very long time. Through all those "glory days" that they were enjoying their limelight, I for one don't think RNGs deserve anything gewd for several more years.

But that's just a bitter DRK speaking.

Your DRK emo is duly noted.

Its more to the end that RNG had already lost a lot, then gained a little and now seems to lose a lot of ground again. Given the Delay, the slow TP gain and the investment a RNG already places in the job, now it seems almost like we need a K. Club to barely keep up.

Its nothing against DRK, DRG or SAM, I have much respect for those that stuck with it and they deserve thier boost. They should be doing high damage, however, they not should not be exceeding RNG by a noticible margin considering all design factors. This adjustment makes the Oct. 2006 adjustment look non-existant.

Basically, if SE is going to want people to keep playing RNG, they need to address this gap quickly or start dispensing ammo on NPCs.

Again, I'm not broken up by it, I got a major boost in lots of departments on COR and so did my BST and DRG. I'd say I enjoyed all three as much as RNG. I'm not crying over all the spent gil on RNG, either, that just comes with the job. I've had fun as RNG, but its just kinda hard to feel compelled to play it after this update in contrast to my other jobs. I certainly don't mind a break from persuing RNG stuff by any means.

I'm not tossing my gear or anything, can't sell most of it since it's R/E. I got too much pride to toss that Vali's Bow anyway.

[Dymlos]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

It's great that 2handers are doing their damage, but with this update, I may just go back /War to get my damage back again from the old days. I've been meaning to lvl SAM again (currently at lv 53) and I now have a reason to level it again. I just hope in the next update SE will slighly change the formula so RNGs get their damage back (again.) But I seriously highly doubt it since S-E has this thing against RNGs being one of the top DD in the game.

Yea I hear OMG., if SAM and rest of 2handers are outdamaging us RNGs (which they shouldn't), then why the hell should I continue playing my RNG if 2handers are going to outdamage me and out shine me in damage all the damn time? To me that's just nothing but a waste of my time, ammo, and gil.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I don't even know if its just SE. Seems every MMORPG ever starts out with rangers and they think "since they pay to DD, they should get thier money's worth." And they should, ranged attacks are one of the most painful and grisley ways to die.

Then all the other melees come along and cry that RNG does more damage than they do and gets invited/is more desireable than they are. Yet they don't want to put in the effort and raise the funds RNG needs. And the rangers end up getting nerfed to hell. Every MMO I've ever heard of rangers get nerfed, FFXI just seems to be the most notorious for it.

But instead of really fixing two handers, it just feels like they've been given thier turn to be overpowered and will later be obscured by the complaints of MNK, RNG and other DDs.

Its just weird to me how SE seems to make all the right moves with COR and other job-specific updates, yet when it comes to something on a wider scale, they don't look at the bigger picture.

Really, the COR, BST and PUP updates are beautiful - its like every community desire was listened to and weighted appropriately, even if all wishes weren't granted, you can tell they were heard at least. So were all the DRK ones. Even all the little tweaks over time to DRG felt appropriate, even if they were sparse.

But weapons are a whole different story. Grips were a great addtion, but I think DRG, SAM, DRK, WAR and any two hand user should have been tweaked by job rather than by weapon.

Take DRG, they were given a second Accuracy Bonus trait. That's great, that alone means a good deal for their weapons skills. Changing the WS properties was also a good move. But the formulas have gone a bit too far, I think

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

im gonna start going /war on rng and mnk now since other jobs can finally pull their share of hate. i always hated going /nin for everything.

well, i was lurking around the various forums and i saw a screen shot w/ a GM and the guy was asking about the 2h upgrade. After some banter, the GM says that all these updates are to prepare for WotG. So perhaps they're just getting us used to the changes and will continue to change stuff for the new battle system (supposedly) and content in WotG.

** theres an interview on BG forums from last week at liepzieg (sp?) bercus had with the dev team and they mentioned a new battle system.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Yeah, in the back of my head I keep thinking something like that. You can't just make an expansion that takes place within a war without ramping up things like the beastmen quite considerably. This is the CoP team we're talking about, too, they're fucking sadists.

This isn't a nerf to RNG so much as its a boost to front two-handers. Still, SE has never done a direct buff to weapons on such a wide scale. Usually when they do something to weapons on this scale, its a nerf for everyone and not a buff.

If that GM is right, SE could stand to be a bit more forthcoming and assure further adjustments in advance so people don't get too hurt by this update. The don't realize the possible damage they're doing with the ol' japanese silent treatment.

You know how people get. Players like to be spoonfed everything from the endgame scene and fucks with the entire game in so many way. The only "good jobs" for EXP are the ones in endgame. All who were lolDRG or saying "second tier" DD to SAM or DRK are now dropping thier WARs and MNKs to go level these jobs. It never fails to be amusing.

As I said, I'm seeing this more as a reprieve and an excuse to take a break from RNG and endgame in general, perhaps save for Salvage and Nyzul Isle. Just gonna wait and see where they're going with these changes. Its a good excuse to get back to other jobs.

[Skoal]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Yea I hear OMG., if SAM and rest of 2handers are outdamaging us RNGs (which they shouldn't), then why the hell should I continue playing my RNG if 2handers are going to outdamage me and out shine me in damage all the damn time?

Dunno, prolly why everyone else who never did outdamage rngs played a different job. Just jump on the band wagon and go to then next super DD. I see no reason not too since it seems all you care for is damage.

[Malacite]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

im gonna start going /war on rng and mnk now since other jobs can finally pull their share of hate. i always hated going /nin for everything.

well, i was lurking around the various forums and i saw a screen shot w/ a GM and the guy was asking about the 2h upgrade. After some banter, the GM says that all these updates are to prepare for WotG. So perhaps they're just getting us used to the changes and will continue to change stuff for the new battle system (supposedly) and content in WotG.

** theres an interview on BG forums from last week at liepzieg (sp?) bercus had with the dev team and they mentioned a new battle system.

I can believe this, especially given that SE has said the following:

- The old jobs will be tweaked to be balanced with the new ones (meaning they're going to be pretty powerful as well)

- WotG will be 90% high level content.

- They're going to be tweaking the difficulty of mobs soon.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Dunno, prolly why everyone else who never did outdamage rngs played a different job. Just jump on the band wagon and go to then next super DD. I see no reason not too since it seems all you care for is damage.

I really don't have to explain "RNG pays to DD," do I? I've been on both sides of this argument, I can pull out the lame "DRG pays to DD, too" argument, but DRG is paying for a lance and some armor, they're not paying per hit and per weaponskill like RNG does. DRG can turn around and sell said lance toward a new one, RNG never gets his arrows back. One day that DRG will never buy armor or weapons from the AH again, the RNG may also achieve that, but they'll still pay to get ammo or farm/craft materials for it.

Without returns on the investments made, there's totally no point in being a DD as RNG. Those returns should be higher damage. Not just because of pay for it, but because the sheer velocity at which arrows and bullets travel - that is what makes them deadly.

And lets not forget RNG's deeper utility than other melee. RNG has the versatility of Xbow, much like THF do, but DRK and WAR tend to neglect their access. On kited mobs, we can still TP while other melees have to chase it down. I won't mention how painful it is to not have someone with Shadowbind on various occasions. RNGs and even BLM also have the luxury of dealing damage from a distance without taking damage so oftern.

So its not just about the damage, but when people stop valuing a job for its damage, they start devaluing other attributes as well. You can't tell me that DRG/Mage does not stand to gain stronger support and attention as of this update. Its one of the most downplayed sides of DRG, but now if DRG can still put up decent damage numbers with it, it'll gain a bit more respect. And things like Angon will be valued more too.

[Skoal]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

And lets not forget RNG's deeper utility than other melee. RNG has the versatility of Xbow, much like THF do, but DRK and WAR tend to neglect their access. On kited mobs, we can still TP while other melees have to chase it down. I won't mention how painful it is to not have someone with Shadowbind on various occasions. RNGs and even BLM also have the luxury of dealing damage from a distance without taking damage so oftern.

Finally someone gets it. Here is one example why you should keep playing rng. Everybody is in such a blood rage over a few screens they saw of some decked out people doing some crazy numbers.

I don't care if rngs pay for damage. Since you brought drg into the discussion, I will tell you how I pay for damage. Wanna know why my parrying and evasion are capped on my drg? Its not because I leveled nin to 75. I spent my time getting all of my rare/ex gear. According to the rngs, only thing that matters is the arrows you consume. The message I am getting is you are nothing w/o throwing money at the job.

Argue all you want, I know you will. I am happy with the update. Its not so one sided like you want it to be. I have always liked playing drg. Its really no different to me now than it was on Sunday. I did and do my job well. If I get smacked with a nerf this week, who cares. I never wanted to be a glory hog and be the best dd there ever was. I just wanted to play an online game and help people out.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

Finally someone gets it. Here is one example why you should keep playing rng. Everybody is in such a blood rage over a few screens they saw of some decked out people doing some crazy numbers.

Not quitting, I'm just lowering my focus on it for the time being. Only thing I can really get rid of is silver bullets at this point. I'm keeping everything else or storing it.

I don't care if rngs pay for damage. Since you brought drg into the discussion, I will tell you how I pay for damage. Wanna know why my parrying and evasion are capped on my drg? Its not because I leveled nin to 75. I spent my time getting all of my rare/ex gear. According to the rngs, only thing that matters is the arrows you consume. The message I am getting is you are nothing w/o throwing money at the job.

Our utility and damage comes from ammo, our best gear is usually of the rare/ex variety. You'll notice that the best gear for most jobs at EXP and even high levels isn't always R/E, but for COR, RNG and BST, it almost always is. This is to offset the expenses of ammo and consumables as we level up.

Argue all you want, I know you will. I am happy with the update. Its not so one sided like you want it to be. I have always liked playing drg. Its really no different to me now than it was on Sunday. I did and do my job well. If I get smacked with a nerf this week, who cares. I never wanted to be a glory hog and be the best dd there ever was. I just wanted to play an online game and help people out.

My concern isn't the one-sidedness of the update as much as it is how one-sided the community is by nature. Want to know what the first PT I got on my COR after the update was?

DRG x4 and RDM. I wish I was kidding.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Omni]

Re: So RNG got stiffed (again)?

I'd have to say that a lot of the 'i dunno why rng should deserve having high damage' usually seems to come from a lot of dd that are not being objective but just feeling bitter about being passed up in the past.

I'm going to log my ammo purchases from now on just to see how much I really do spend on a regular basis.

Like kitty says, once you reach 75 you dont really change ur gear. most new gear you might get is almost free anyways (abjs, sky, sea, af2, etc) so you're done as far as spending for that job goes.

I've been 75 on rng for a few years now, and I continue to pay to play this job. I continue to pay for nin. I dont have a problem with it because if I did, then I'd stop playing it obviously. Just dont tell me I shouldn't be entitled to some good dmg dealing capabilties and that paying for job is a trivial thing just because you never played a job that requires continual upkeep even after capping out.

It's sort of how THFs feel now with this new 2h update. An AH geared melee job (which imo, is not a decked out player since most of the best equip is no AH-attainable) can now out spike a pimped out THF. Is that fair? Someone who has spent a lot of time to gear in hecta/homan is not nothing more than a glorified lucky rabbits foot.

skoal: sorry your i pay for dmg on drg by leveling parry and evasion on nin doesnt work for me. how is parry and evasion helping your dmg on drg? it doenst. its a GIVEN that you have to pay for your job to get it up to date in gear. thats not what kitty was saying. its after you cap out and gotten all the gear you want, you STOP PAYING for that job. everytime you go out all you need is food and power/oils: just like everyone else. I have nearly all the gear I want on rng but I stilll need to shell out 100k for a stack of arrows each time I go out. I highly doubt you do that on drg or any other melee.