Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I've never been that bad off on my Slugwinders, but I got my paws on Seiryu's Kote and Wyrmal Abjuration last night so Kote for RNG and Crims for my COR, /cheer. This lead my to think about how I could put these to the best possibly use.

I had read up on the Slug Shot and Sidewinder modifiers in FFXIlopedia and I've become very suspicious of the information on that wiki since it gave me the wrong information of various quests leaving me to wander aimlessly until completion.

Sidewinder says 16% STR and 25% AGI modifiers
Slug Shot says 30% AGI modifier.

So that leaves me to consider different builds for both WS if the information is indeed accurate. I have a slew or AGI gear on COR I seldom use for RNG.

I suppose given the correct information it would also make me consider how to apply my last combat merits, I've gone 5 for Marksmanship and 1 for Archery so far. I consider COR/RNG my main and would like to push its Marksmanship to an A+ Rating with Gun Belt since RNG had A+ in Archery and Marksmanship by nature.

I suppose I'd end up being a Gun/Xbow RNG if I completed my merits as such, but I did work for that Vali's bow and I'd be leaving myself with only four merits for archery, which might be a shame.

But if Kote makes a large enough difference for both ranged WS, then it might not be such an issue for my RNG.

[Caspian]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

Actually RNG have an A- in marks and archery.

Both are good, but CFG are better unless you need the extra bit of accuracy or you're fighting something with dragon killer, then they're just annoying.
Plus, the AGI modifier is a secondary modifier so it doesnt do as much as you'd think. CFG are better all around (tp and ws) assuming you can hit the mob w/o the extra bit of r.acc. (which shouldn't make that much of a difference) and you're not being intimidated every other attempt.

If you're main is COR, I'd stick with full marks, unless you really wanna do 6 & 6. I'm a RNG main until I die, so going with 8 archery and 4 marks, but its really is all personal preference as far as RNG goes.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

Actually RNG have an A- in marks and archery.

Both are good, but CFG are better unless you need the extra bit of accuracy or you're fighting something with dragon killer, then they're just annoying.
Plus, the AGI modifier is a secondary modifier so it doesnt do as much as you'd think. CFG are better all around (tp and ws) assuming you can hit the mob w/o the extra bit of r.acc. (which shouldn't make that much of a difference) and you're not being intimidated every other attempt.

If you're main is COR, I'd stick with full marks, unless you really wanna do 6 & 6. I'm a RNG main until I die, so going with 8 archery and 4 marks, but its really is all personal preference as far as RNG goes.

Bah I forget 269 was A- though that's still heads and shoulders above what other jobs get.

I guess I'm just curious since I've PTed with some RNGs that can throw down huge numbers as RNG in God gear even as /NIN, yet I've also done better than some with that same gear, probably because I prefer /WAR and they don't want to stray from /NIN. So I gotta think there's some way to tweak out the use of both hand pieces.

If there is a way to max out the use of the gear, it'd be nice to know.

I already learned pretty fast that meat just isn't going to work out on gods/HNMs, not as RNG/NIN, RNG/WAR or COR/RNG. And my STR rings on gods we hurting my Slugwinder accuracy, so I locked them out to keep my Behemoth Rings on. So I'm constantly going back to the drawing board on things. Might have been overboard on STR anyway.

[Omni]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

Modifiers are very misleading. They have almost little to do with actually increasing your dmg output. If you look at the dmg calculation formula, in no place does it have any of those modifiers. I'd go with CFG, which I personally use.

Like Casp said, those modifiers everyone sees as zomg thats what my ws is based off of! are useless.

In the end, STR/R.Atk/Atk > all for dmg always.

Explained very well here:

STR > AGI for damage. Period. The end.

It doesn't have to make sense, it's just the way things are.

When you do damage, the game checks 2 things primarily:

Your STR vs. the mob's VIT

and

Your ATK (or RATK) (which is influenced by STR) vs. the mob's DEF

Note that nowhere in either of those quasi-equations do you see AGI.

Now, why do people think AGI matters? Simple. Some JP players did a lot of research to figure out various modifiers for weaponskills and made a nice chart to go along with it. The problem is that all of the instructions/explanations accompanying the chart require a lot more effort to read than simply browsing a list of X% - Y Stat so 99% of people don't know what the hell the modifiers actually do. Well, you're in luck, because I'm about to tell you all... again.

The modifiers add to your weapon's DMG rating for that one weaponskill. When you see "Slug Shot - 30% AGI" that DOES NOT mean that your weaponskill gets some magical 30% increase in damage because of your AGI. It means that if you have a 100 AGI, you get 30 DMG added to your weapon. A gun with a 40 DMG rating becomes a gun with a 70 DMG rating for that WS, that's it.

Now, initially, this seems like one hell of a boost. For the weapon in question, that's almost a 100% increase in DMG. The problem is, determining damage done isn't that simple. The weapon's D-rating matters, but it's a very minor factor until you reach the point where your STR is so much higher than the mob's VIT and/or your ATK is so much higher than the mob's DEF that they begin to "cap" off. Up until that point, STR and ATK are much, much more important than any additional WS modifiers.

Further, STR affects all damage, not just weaponskills. It doesn't matter if you use a gun, a club, a staff, or your fists. STR will make you do more damage every time you make contact. Period.

IF you use a weapon that has it's weaponskills modified by AGI, there is no reason not to boost your AGI. That said, there is never, ever, ever an excuse to boost AGI instead of STR or ATK (RATK) because the latter two will always be more noticable and more significant.

No, I don't have any parsed logs to show you. I don't need them. Take 30 seconds to search the forum and you'll find 34523452345 other accounts that say the same thing I just did (albeit typically in less detail) and a lot of them do have logs/screenshots/whatever.

[VZX]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

In the end, STR/R.Atk/Atk > all for dmg always.

Ratk until higher ratk/def ratio > STR

[Omni]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

It wasnt in a particular order Just those 3 will be better than any other stat for pushing dmg is the point I was trying to make.

[nanatsu]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

Yes, those secondary modifiers won't do much for you at all. Only way to really raise your dmg is with STR and ratk. If you don't have the accuracy to support that against gods well then you've hit a wall that you're just not going to be able to break through. Once you have the best weapons the only place to go is to str and ratk. Once your attack caps out, the only place to go to is str. Using agi in places where you can use str and atk is a step in the wrong direction and will only set you back.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sidewinder/Slug Shot modifiers

Well, I finally got to toying around with both in merit and endgame functions. It feels like Kote is just a little better than Crim for guns and xbow on RNG, but Crim still felt best for Bow.

At least, that's how it feels so far to me.