Question regarding dmg calculation

[kman]

I'm looking for a formula or common knowldage information on how ranged dmg is calculated. For example when a gun has a DMG base of D1 and the bullet has a dmg base of D2 is the dmg added together or pumped into another formula.

Along with that I was curious for the actual dmg formula which incorporates Attack, Str, R.Attack, Agi, and even distance (being probably a ratio multiplier).

Any and all information is welcome I'm just curious

Thank You,
kman

Double Post Edited:
Oh the second part of the question is do u also add the delay, and tp gain from both the bullet and the gun?

[bikkebakke]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

I don't know about this anymore now that you have to be ideal distance to get the ideal damage. Looks like now there would be some kind of distance modifier as well.

[kman]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

My question is very specific (I have a theory that the low dps on the annihilator relic5 is due to the fact that it can fire cannon shells). If that's the case I was trying to figure it's dmg, delay, and tp gain. Both the bullet and the gun has a dps, meaning a DMG, Delay, and TP Gain.

Annihilator DMG:47 DLY:582 DPS:4.85
Cannon Shell DMG90 DLY:300 DPS:18.00

If you just add it together you get a ridiculous gun with a DLY of 882 which straight up way to long to fire one bullet and risk a potential miss. It would also have a sick dmg base of 137 which again is ridiculous to but with a cumalitive TP gain of 21.09% per hit.

Last question is since, cannon shells are only stacked to 12 does your TP reset when u change ammo?

[Lmnop]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

no, it shouldn't. When I run out of acid bolts I get the message "you do not have the appropriate ammo equipped" or something. Now if you run out of darts, it changes your 'ranged' slot and that seems to lose TP. but not ammo.

[aegina]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

your tp does not reset when you change ammo. i do it all the time in the middle of the fight. unless you change your ranged weapon (i.e, bow/xbow), too

[Macht]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

Hmm, was unaware that the Annihilator could actually use the Cannon Shells. I thought only the Culverin and Culverin +1 were able to use that. But even with the those a straight add seems to buff to incredible numbers.

Culvering +1 DMG: 51 Delay 737
Cannon Shells DMG: 90 Delay 300

Together DMG: 141 Delay 1,037

Bullets though range so widely in the DMG rating they have that you don't have a really good base to tell how it's damage is determined. If you look at Bows too even the strongest Bow with the best Arrow has DMG ratings in the 100s.

As far as the modifier goes the simplistic method that's been done and most RNGs (excluding myself) go by is you have 75% efficeny if you are to close, 100% at right distance, and 85% if you are to far away. With this accuracy is inversed with a 85% accuracy if you are to close, 100%(also stated 50%) at right distance, and 75% to far away for modifications.

Weapons that are thrown though like pebbles, darts, chakras, surikens, etc.. supposedly are different from that with 100% acc/att close, 85% a little to far away, and 75% if way to far away. These are % modifications which means if you normally have 50% acc before the update then at the distance for a 100% I was stating means you'll get your full 50% acc just like before.

As far as DMG though I use the Eurytos' Bow (DMG: 71 Delay 490) against most IT mobs when I use Iron Arrows (DMG: 14 Delay 120) with all my buffs (sorry usually always buffed so I know my buffed numbers better then without buffs) I get 99-110 damage a shot. With Scorpion Arrows (DMG: 24 Delay 90) I get 140-160 damage a shot. With Demon Arrows (DMG: 38 Delay 90) passing the 100 DMG threshold now I get 200-250 damage a shot. All of this on IT mobs, my Sidewinders are even crazier damage wise as they go up from Iron vs. Scorpion vs. Demon (10 DMG upgrade per Arrow, seems the best method to test to me).

Considering that unlike other weapon were many abilities can be coupled with them to produce incredible numbers (SA and Souleater for example) the Ranged Weapons are more limited so likely they compensated by actually having our damage rating going well beyond any other weapon can.

The delays do seem to add together as well an E-Bow with it's 490 delay using an arrow of 90 delay (580 total) gets the similar delay per shot as a Composite bow 450 delay using an arrow of 120 delay (570 total). If the two were calculated differently then the straight out total shouldn't have them pratically firing at the same time. Of course the delay test was done with a friend it was a little hard to get timing right so best method we found for this was to use a decent length motion that could be interrupted. For example a welcome motion or salute motion, the instant the player doing the motion stopped we went. Seemed to work fine, even tested it using a 120 delay bow and you could see a huge difference between a bow firing at a total of 240 vs. 580 (More then half a cut on the delay).

The only odd thing is even though it's half a cut you'd suspect then that the 240 could hit 2 to the 580s 1 shot, that wasn't the case though. Sure Rapid Shot might of interferred some but not once out of over 100 tests shots did the 240 get 2 shots on the 580 1 shot.

[Caspian]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

Arrow delay determines the message at the bottom that says "You must wait longer before repeating that action." Bow/gun delay determines how long you hold it before you shoot. Ammo delay determines you long you have to wait until you can activate your ranged attack macro again.

I have a theory that the low dps on the annihilator relic5 is due to the fact that it can fire cannon shells.

Macht, it was a theory of his not a proven fact. Though, I do think there is a guy on my server that has the fully upgraded gun, so I'll get a friend to ask him. (I don't personally like the guy, so I avoid contact with him.)
Kman, their isn't much use to cannon shells, when they only have 9 more dmg than a silver bullet, plus they only stack to 12, so you'd have to be absolutely loaded with stacks to go any amount of time at all. Also there are several guns with +range attack and such, which post patch is > than all.

[kman]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

I see, thank you very much for your replies everyone.

Caspian, the reason I proposed that theory is when comparing relic5 bow and relic5 gun the bow greatly out-damages the gun. Gun costing significantly more to upgrade than the bow makes me a little uneasy and consider what hidden+additional effect the gun may provide over the bow. The gun is also unique to rangers so their really has to be something.

Excaliber will hit the the enemy based on your hp (meaning you can fire off a normal hit for about 470ish with no criticals involved).

The relic shield supposebly has it's greatest advantage in it's activation rate. As it activates as much as a buckler but blocks as hard as a tower shield.

From what I heard G.Axe relic does impressive dmg @ 100% tp, but steel cyclone outdmg it @ 300%

Most of this discussion is a selfish curiousity on relics but has proved very educational and intresting. If anyone has anymore information please : )

[Macht]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

Lol, Caspian, I had interrepted that line you quoted differently. That is why part of my post was saying that I only knew the Culverin and Culverin +1 to use the Cannon Shells. I've never heard anything of any other weapon using Cannon Shells.

As far as delay to fire and refire, I wasn't being specific on that. All I carred about was if weapons and arrows of different delays total near the same if they would produce the same end result.

Sorry to say Caspian, but the idea of the ammo being the reuse delay is a bit tough to believe. My Dagger has a 190 Delay and I've been able to fire bullets of 240 delay without my dagger striking meaning I'm able to refire well before a 190 Delay without any trouble. The refire rate seems to be a consistent 150 delay the actual release of the arrow or shot seems to be were all the delay is at.

Of course the only job that can really test that though is a THF using a Sirocco Kukri (Delay 150). If the delay really does change by ammo it should stick out more with that Kukri, but I think even 190 delay is good enough to test considering the bullets starts at 240 for delay anyway.

EDIT:

LOL, nevermind with the THF being the only one I totally forgot about Beestingers, Platoon Daggers, and Hornetneedle. Guess I'll have to try that again with one of them.

[Caspian]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

The ammo delay being the time you have to wait b/w fires is just what I've been told by others, not sure if its been proven or not. However, the delay on ranged weapons has a different time ratio than melee weapons. For ranged weapons 100delay=1second. For melee weapons its 60delay=1second. Testing was done and the thread is somewhere around here, on the ranger forum somewhere iirc. I'll do some digging and update this post with the link. You may already know this and I may just be misunderstanding your post, so if this is something you're already well aware of, just say so and I'll quit babbling.
Kman, thats interesting, I didn't know there was that big of a dmg difference b/w relic gun and bow on their final stage. I didn't even know there were servers where both weapons were fully upgraded and could be parsed together. I'll see what I can find out tonight if my connection holds up.

EDIT: Ok, finally found the thread that talks about it
Delay:Time differences in weapons

[kman]

Re: Question regarding dmg calculation

Thank you both, I had no idea delay was parsed differently on ranged weapons. I'm going through the link you posted up Caspian and it's a few posts to read and take in. Also the relic gun and bow I don't believe are on the same server but I have seen them upgraded on forums. I did have personal demstrations of excaliber and h2h relic5 which lies on kujata at the moment both being quite impressive; the pld with excaliber was /nin with kraken club and basically had pretty intense regen at all times.