Rng/sam

[Caspian]

Re: Rng/sam

Is that a crit aegina? Or just a regular shot. Also, was it a flying mob?
I think one of the biggest draws for /war is that if you have a good enough tank and wouldn't pull hate on spamming arrows with /nin, then that gives a little leeway to the /war that wasn't there before. The /war is still capable of riding the hate line, while the /nin isn't w/o using Sidewinder or Barrage. Having a thf in the party helps this too.

[aegina]

Re: Rng/sam

i'm just trying to get a feel for the difference

i tried /war once, and i didn't like it. not having shadows made me feel naked :shudder:

[Lmnop]

Re: Rng/sam

hello, seekers of the /ra.

I'm not a ranger, but I'd like to state my only irritation with rng/nin: They ruin party formation. Given a Rng/nin who can consistently pull hate (such as with a nin tank pre-40ish), he will continue to cross that line and rely on a couple blinks to save his ass. It wanders over, takes a swing or 2, and wanders back. Not "tanking," just getting attention. Now toss in a bard who starts casting madrigal, and immediately the mob moves, the melee follow, the bard completes and hits no one. Another one is actually with thieves doing mid-battle SATA. I can think of other rare instances, which is what they are - rare. But with enough 'rare' situations that could potentially come to pass over a 3 hour exp period, you find yourself seeing one thing or another time and again. Once again, this is the only thing that really bothers me.. it's not a huge thing, obviously. But it still gets annoying when a RNG uses Barrage right before someone closes a SC and watch them lose their tp to the roaming mob.

This is also why I don't like the blm/nin movement. I've known for a long time now that blm/nin has the potential to be about as scarey as pre-patch RNG -- just have to rely on mp. The problem is these blms have nothing to offer the party (3 mage, 3 melee is really a 4 melee party with a blm/nin), as well as their complete disregard for hate.

[Caspian]

Re: Rng/sam

Lol, I know how you feel. I played /nin for so long that its definately going to take some getting used to.

[aegina]

Re: Rng/sam

I'm not a ranger, but I'd like to state my only irritation with rng/nin...

...is actually with thieves doing mid-battle SATA.

whenever i party with a thief, i always make sure to stand behind the tank. that way, if i pull hate (and i will ) it doesn't turn the mob, so it doesn't mess up sata.


of course, i also play a thief, so i know how frustrating it can be to try to land a sata with an uncooperative party

[Apple Pie]

Re: Rng/sam

It's off topic but /SAM is, I think, the best combo for 60-capped Ballista as RNG.

Meditation allows me to gain TPs without standing at the frontline at the risk of death. Store TP gives me a little TP bonus per shot.

I love to use either Musketeer Gun +1 or Selene's Bow for higher WS damage but it is hard to hit moving objects with these slow ranged weapons. With NIN or WAR sub for example, I can only shoot 7 - 8 Sidewinders/Slugshots but with SAM sub, I can do 13 - 15 times and get more GB status eventually.

BTW, I love to do SC at Ballista and /SAM gives me more chances to do that

I haven't tried /SAM in a PT yet and I cannot really comment on that...

[Caspian]

Re: Rng/sam

Sorry, I know this post is way off topic, but it just has to be done.

APPLE PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! We miss you, you should post more often here. I know you still have your journal, but its just not the same, especially since I usually look at this forum at work and the filter here blocks just about everything else.

Now, on-topic: I like that idea. Third Eye makes for a makeshift, uninterruptable shadow and solves a lot of the problems created by the ranger patch. Have you tried using Ebow for the lower delay? Might help out a little bit. I really wish they would change it so that dmg/accuracy was based on distance when you hit ctrl+d, not distance when it actually fires. It just seems to create unnecessary problems for the sake of being annoying.

[Devlang]

Re: Rng/sam

I personally have grown so used to using /nin I have trouble changing. I do use /war while doing bcnm's like Royal Jelly though.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/sam

I use /SAM for HNM, just to facilitate maximum # of SCs.

[greydaze]

Re: Rng/sam

I want to share my experience with /nin with you guys.

I'm not saying /war and /sam aren't good options too, but this is what works for me.

I'm decked out in +racc gear. PCC (on loan from a friend), noct +1 hands, AF legs/feet/body/head (need the new feet pieces), +1 racc rings, hawkers, fransisca, etc. And I have an 85-90% hit rate without sushi, depending on where I stand. With BRD in the PT, I hit (with selene's bow + Demon's Arrows) for 150-180 per notmal shot and 500-800 for barrage, with WS doing 800-1500 (PPA). This is all while using yellow curry. Without BRD, subtract 10-15 points per shot due to moving closer to mob.

I pull hate. I try not to, I manage my hate well, but I still do. At level 62, those shadows help. I could manage without them, but I'd rather just stock up on RACC through gear and job, and use food to boost my RATK. Also, making your own PTs is good because with thf, brd and pld, you can do almost anything you like and make damage similar to pre-patch.

/Nin isn't the wave of the past, but there are new ways I have tweaked it. If my friend had offered the use of his PCC a year and a half ago before I went on hiatus, I'd have said, <thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.> Now, I have changed the way I play a bit. I was always a ranged-only RNG and I always used the best equipment and arrows (e-bow... how I miss thee... T.T). My sidewinders never did over 1100 on an IT mob before, and now if I stand near the edge of the ranged circle, they do. I enjoy this job, and with so few RNG on the server, it doesn't matter what my SJ is as long as I play well and make a reputation for myself.

[Macht]

Re: Rng/sam

RNG/NIN definatly is not a thing of the past. Though with the changes done to RNG their abilities are placed more in check. In effect for RNG/NIN to get the maximum potential of damage from their attacks they'd have to ride the hate line now, otherwise the mob gets close and their damage takes a 25% loss.

RNG/WAR with berserk actualy counters that 25% loss so if the mob advances on them they'll still be on par damage wise to a RNG/NIN who is at optimal distance. Though a RNG/WAR won't land as many as RNG/NIN if they are going all +rng. acc. in a good balance their accuracy ratio to RNG/NIN only ends up with like a 2%-5% difference not large enough to make the off-handed weapon that huge an improvement. This is ofcourse only true the closer you approach to about 29, after that mark the off-hand weapon's +rng. acc. becomes less effective dropping drastically if RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN have the right gear.

Outside of that depending on the mob I'm fighting going with just Berserk + Courel Sub + Demons + Sidewider it usually equates to about 1500 damage for me on a IT mob. RNG/NIN's superiority I still have no doubt is that they can avoid damage, most of the other stuff in a percentage view falls flat and shows them to be sacrificing damage potential for a slight consistency boost. The avoiding damage part of /NIN is an intoxicating perk that any job loves to get.

Oh greydaze, if you are still 62 I really wouldn't suggest the use of Yellow Curry yet unless you have a BRD giving you a single rng. att. boost. The +20% is reducing your potential if your Range Attack isn't near that like 375 area. It should currently be around 280 so a Royal Omelette, Imperial Omelette, Courel Sub +1, and Boiled Cockatrice should benefit you a lot more.

For an example the foods I mention give +22% vs. +20% around 280 you end up with this difference:

280*.22 = 61.6
280*.20 = 56

That's 5 more Rng. Att. you can push onto your total. If you have a BRD puts just 1 Rng. Att. boost song on you as long as it's a good one that pushes you near 375 then the Yellow Curry is far more beneficial to have then what I mentioned.

The two foods that are awsome at any level past 55 (except for like maybe 74 and 75), though are insaine expensive usually is Dragon Soup and Red Curry. That is if you are looking to boost Rng. Att. as high as possible.

The absolute best one should only use if you are getting a TON of Rng. Att. boosts and you are at like 74 or 75 is Dragon Steak.

[greydaze]

Re: Rng/sam

RNG/NIN definatly is not a thing of the past. Though with the changes done to RNG their abilities are placed more in check. In effect for RNG/NIN to get the maximum potential of damage from their attacks they'd have to ride the hate line now, otherwise the mob gets close and their damage takes a 25% loss.

RNG/WAR with berserk actualy counters that 25% loss so if the mob advances on them they'll still be on par damage wise to a RNG/NIN who is at optimal distance. Though a RNG/WAR won't land as many as RNG/NIN if they are going all +rng. acc. in a good balance their accuracy ratio to RNG/NIN only ends up with like a 2%-5% difference not large enough to make the off-handed weapon that huge an improvement. This is ofcourse only true the closer you approach to about 29, after that mark the off-hand weapon's +rng. acc. becomes less effective dropping drastically if RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN have the right gear.

Outside of that depending on the mob I'm fighting going with just Berserk + Courel Sub + Demons + Sidewider it usually equates to about 1500 damage for me on a IT mob. RNG/NIN's superiority I still have no doubt is that they can avoid damage, most of the other stuff in a percentage view falls flat and shows them to be sacrificing damage potential for a slight consistency boost. The avoiding damage part of /NIN is an intoxicating perk that any job loves to get.

Oh greydaze, if you are still 62 I really wouldn't suggest the use of Yellow Curry yet unless you have a BRD giving you a single rng. att. boost. The +20% is reducing your potential if your Range Attack isn't near that like 375 area. It should currently be around 280 so a Royal Omelette, Imperial Omelette, Courel Sub +1, and Boiled Cockatrice should benefit you a lot more.

For an example the foods I mention give +22% vs. +20% around 280 you end up with this difference:

280*.22 = 61.6
280*.20 = 56

That's 5 more Rng. Att. you can push onto your total. If you have a BRD puts just 1 Rng. Att. boost song on you as long as it's a good one that pushes you near 375 then the Yellow Curry is far more beneficial to have then what I mentioned.

The two foods that are awsome at any level past 55 (except for like maybe 74 and 75), though are insaine expensive usually is Dragon Soup and Red Curry. That is if you are looking to boost Rng. Att. as high as possible.

The absolute best one should only use if you are getting a TON of Rng. Att. boosts and you are at like 74 or 75 is Dragon Steak.

Sorry for the length of time since my response.

I currently am staticking with a BRD and able to cook all my own food. The info on curry rates it from anywhere from 20-32% RATK bonus, so I don;t know which to believe. I've thought about going with a different food, but it's easy to make 8-10 with breaks, keep two and sell the rest for a net profit.

Thanks for the advice tho!

[Macht]

Re: Rng/sam

Sorry for the length of time since my response.

I currently am staticking with a BRD and able to cook all my own food. The info on curry rates it from anywhere from 20-32% RATK bonus, so I don;t know which to believe. I've thought about going with a different food, but it's easy to make 8-10 with breaks, keep two and sell the rest for a net profit.

Thanks for the advice tho!

Were have you seend it at 32%? Somepage, MysteryTour, and a few other's I check all say 20%. If you say you got it from Allakhazam I'll die laughing. They get data so seriously wrong at times it is just hillarious. Last I knew their website mentioned nothing about some of the harder items to get from CoP, they had the weapons on there but no one knew how to get them. Many believing they were just fictional, most of the english sites now don't really mention the 3 items (Recollection of Suffering, Recollection of Animosity, and Recollection of Anxiety).

Look up those 3 on somepage they have them mentioned and even mention of a quest but no detail to the quest. Detail of the quest is on Japanese sites though. One of quite a few things you'll find wrong on the english sites.

Hmm, if you mean at 23% then that sounds like you mean red curry. Which hell man if you are making those like that share the wealth. I'd love to get red curry, just so damn expensive.

[greydaze]

Re: Rng/sam

Were have you seend it at 32%? Somepage, MysteryTour, and a few other's I check all say 20%. If you say you got it from Allakhazam I'll die laughing. They get data so seriously wrong at times it is just hillarious. Last I knew their website mentioned nothing about some of the harder items to get from CoP, they had the weapons on there but no one knew how to get them. Many believing they were just fictional, most of the english sites now don't really mention the 3 items (Recollection of Suffering, Recollection of Animosity, and Recollection of Anxiety).

Look up those 3 on somepage they have them mentioned and even mention of a quest but no detail to the quest. Detail of the quest is on Japanese sites though. One of quite a few things you'll find wrong on the english sites.

Hmm, if you mean at 23% then that sounds like you mean red curry. Which hell man if you are making those like that share the wealth. I'd love to get red curry, just so damn expensive.

Well, 32% at the wiki (i know, i know, inaccurate much) and I seem to remember somepage having it at 32% a while ago. Says 20% now, though. But that might be why the wiki has 32...

Honestly, I don't see that many boiled cockatrice sold, but yellow curry sells FAST. it's always been "the" rng food, and i guess it's still pretty popular. I make, on average, 150k per batch, including eating some of the profits myself (1-2 out of each batch). With breaks, I make between 8 and 10 out of every stack of ingredients. The coeurl meat is 30-40k per stack, the onions are 20k per stack, the spices come to about 15k, and the other ingredients are extremely cheap. They sell for 22-25k each, and there aren't too many others that have picked up on the big money to be made. every day or two, 7-10 curries sell, and that's quite a profit if i do it every day or so.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that an extra 5 ratk would be nice, but I'm not going to die without it. On the other hand, it's very very simple and time-efficient to make yellow curry.

But I probably will put RNG on hold for a week... I lost a PPA, and I need CP to get another.

[Macht]

Re: Rng/sam

lol, yeah love when player's make that sort of 'klick' out of a certain item. They are going with it because some other RNG they knew was using it too (Mindless acceptance of things is always at an all time high ).

Thing I do know is that the yellow curry is better then those other foods at like 68, at that point though there's other foods that work even better then yellow curry but they are expensive. Yeah, after a certain point the yellow curry is just cheaper then the rest for an ok boost but because of people who don't study or search out that info they totally miss out on the ones that are better.

Actually when you look at it Royal Sautee (80 Rng. Att. Max), and Coeurl Sub +1 (80) are always better then Yellow Curry. Only real significant boost Yellow Curry gives that those two don't is the +20 HP. Then as your Rng. Att. starts to go beyond 385 then Bison Steak (90), Hedgehog Pie (90), Marbled Steak (95), Porcupine Pie (95), Dragon Steak (150), Dragon Soup (150), and Red Curry (150) all have Yellow Curry beat for Rng. Att. boost.

Can you imagine how insaine of Damage a RNG/WAR at 75 would potentially be with Red Curry. I mean with just like 450 Rng. Att. do Red Curry + Berserk + Warcry. Definatly overkill to attack, hitting up to 853 Rng. Att. and with 375 and that hitting 691 Rng. Att. >.>

Yellow Curry wouldn't reach that at 450 with Yellow+Berserk+Warcry it's 778 and at 375 with those 3 it's 661. Difference of 30~75 Rng. Att. goodness. Yeah though to hit the Rng. Att. needed to take full advantage of the boost from Red Curry you are basically forced to have BRD if you are not RNG/WAR otherwise as RNG/WAR you can pretty much reach it solo no problem.

Kind of funny RNG/NIN to cap out that attack would need a BRD singing Attack boosts, while a RNG/WAR while capped out with that attack would need a BRD for the Rng. Acc. boost to get that missing amount of accuracy that a RNG/NIN would have. Show how the two subs are sort of equal reflections of eachother.