Quit your B****ing and read this!

[Macht]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

Lol, oh damn a RNG actually realized the compass and used it for their testing. Even funnier if what his results say are true that's all the stuff I've been doing since day 1 of playing RNG. As for predicting the monsters move, you can do it. I've done it for a long time, there's a precurser that happens just before they start to move. Because of the games design their halting points are always consistent in how they travel, you of course won't notice since I'm sure many of you have choosen to use an ability like provoke to bring the monster to them instead of tailing it to hit it so of course you won't see what I mean.

I personally see no reason to complain, though of course this change to RNG is sounding more and more like it isn't going to effect me much. I'll finally get a chance to try the new update today, can't wait to see how it is now.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

be interesting to to hear your accounts Mact seeing as you play /war

[Macht]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

Forgot to Add, if you pull hate from a 500+ damage shot then there is a few things being done wrong unless you intended to pull hate. I've done 800 damage shots and never pull hate because I timed when to do such damage and I had an excellent tank. I know from my own experiments it is possible to do crazy damage and not pull hate, the trick is to know when.

Double Post Edited:

be interesting to to hear your accounts Mact seeing as you play /war

Yeah, I can't wait to see how it is. I've always loved RNG/WAR over RNG/NIN and now if this patch did like I was thinking I'm going to love RNG/WAR even more over it. I notice someone talking how RNGs are all high and mighty and creating their arrow-burn parties. What's funny is I'm probably the only RNG who intentionally has choosen not to get Utsusemi yet and have been refused those arrow-burn parties, I've been in only about 2 of them and both times I held my own very well in them.

If anything I'd have to say the rude comments stating all RNGs should be more specific to state "Conformist RNG/NINs" they are probably the worst. I so hate when a party leader refuses me a party only because I'm not a RNG/NIN, oh that pissed me off to no end that they would force such a condition. They always changed their tune though when they saw me actually fight.

[ibroyles]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

I think some people may be taking this patch in the wrong way. If you are excited about this patch because you may now outdamage RNGs, then think about something for a second. If you NOW outdamage RNGs, what makes you think SE isn't about to bring the nerf stick down on your job? They thought RNGs did too much damage, and many jobs(before the patch) were borderline same DMG as RNGs, or even excelling it at end game. (note: I haven't even seen any conclusive tests yet of anybody even SAYING they've outdamaged RNG, yet. Other than jobs which already did.)

To Impaction: Even if DRGs outdamage RNGs now, what do you really think that's going to change? Other than bragging rights? Isn't that the exact bullshit you didn't like RNGs for in the first place? heh. Also, it doesn't matter to me if DRGs outdamage RNGs, I would still invite a RNG if a DRG isn't seeking. Or vice versa? Get my drift? If you think I'll start waiting for DRG to seek, just cause they may slightly outdamage RNG, then you are mistaken. I don't care about "uber damage," because somebody is going to do it in order for the mob to die. What I care about is that the mob dies, and I get XP. That's how you level up.

Guess what guys? I can do the same damage as RNG in a skill up party against pots(because I'm the only damage dealer in the party), does that mean I'm uber now? That's the one thing about parses they can't show, is how fast you're killing the mob, and if you're able to even maintain C5. Just remember, this game is about teamwork, and without 2-3DDs and/or a BLM to do damage, the mob won't even die in the first place. I guess what I'm trying to say, is QUIT worrying about outdamaging, and start learning how to work well with others. If you can learn to do that, the mobs will drop like flies...

[poweryoga]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

Waaah. Try doing the same as a bard with an 8 second song. Bards have been doing all of the above for quite a long time while keeping track of *5* moving targets, and yet people still manage to do it.

sorry icemage, your target is people, but not mobs. You can tell people to get in position, but you can't tell a mob to stop moving. Its a silly analogy that doesn't quite work. You also don't lose effectiveness with songs with distance either.

In the end, of course it gets easier with practice, but rangers are no longer the reliable BCNM/ENM/etc buddies they once were, and I'd much rather pick a realiable DD like warrior or sam over a ranger, especially in CoP missions.

[kuu]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

sorry icemage, your target is people, but not mobs. You can tell people to get in position, but you can't tell a mob to stop moving. Its a silly analogy that doesn't quite work. You also don't lose effectiveness with songs with distance either.

In the end, of course it gets easier with practice, but rangers are no longer the reliable BCNM/ENM/etc buddies they once were, and I'd much rather pick a realiable DD like warrior or sam over a ranger, especially in CoP missions.

A waa...the last time a brd tried to be bossy, he got dirted by the monster. Brd don't tell people what to do. That's why they have an adversion to certain parties.

And monster follows -> person with most hate

It's all the same in the end.

[Icemage]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

Brd don't tell people what to do. That's why they have an adversion to certain parties.

And monster follows -> person with most hate

It's all the same in the end.

Exactly. Monsters are easy to predict, compared to the people you play with.

Bard songs aren't affected by distance? Sure, I guess, as but in 8 seconds any one of 5 people can run 4 times the effect radius of any song, even using string instruments (and this is worse if you're trying to sing Minuet, which uses a wind instrument, with the correspondingly decreased effect range).

I just went on a CoP 8-3 trek through Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi last night to pick up the map as well as get one person to the boss at the end yesterday. 7 person alliance, vs. a swarm of quite nasty T-VT+ enemies in the Palace. The RNG75 seemed to be holding up just fine on damage, using nothing snazzier than an Othinius Bow and various offensive status/holy bolts, and that's with us being forced to move monsters around due to pops or form changes on a regular basis. She was very good at finding a good spot to snipe from, and knew exactly when she could pour on damage, and when it wasn't such a good idea.

I certainly had no complaints, mobs died in the expected amount of time, and we had zero issues during the 3 hour trek through the zone.

Sure, rangers don't do the same godly damage as before, but it's still acceptable, and there's still a lot that rangers have to offer that other DDs cannot (wide scan, shadowbind, barrage, not to mention various status attacks on demand when using crossbows).

I think the current crop of RNG75s have taken it that it is their God-given right to automatically hit anything they shoot at. This wasn't always the case (RNG used to have problems hitting IT+ enemies or HNM before the introduction of more RACC items and foods).

There are two possible responses to the fact that it now takes some work on your part to find the happy medium between accuracy and damage: Whine about it, or learn the new system and show the naysayers that RNGs are still worthy of respect (because they are).

If you want to talk about major upheavals in the natural order of things, go find any non-botting fisherman on your server and talk to them sometime about what you do when your world turns topsy-turvy (every single update since the dawn of time, except for this last one, has nerfed the fishing craft). This is the one and only time RNGs have ever received a nerf, and many of you are bitching like spoiled brats about it, but other jobs and (and some crafts) have received repeated nerfs and yet they still manage to persevere.

Deal. With. It.

This update is not the end of the world. RNG still do ok damage, and are still useful in some circumstances ... just not all of them (Fafnir).


Icemage

[Tipsy]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

This update is not the end of the world. RNG still do ok damage, and are still useful in some circumstances ... just not all of them (Fafnir).

see thats the point, ranger wasnt supposed to do "ok damage" people play ranger not to be "a normal job" they play it to be outstanding...

[Icemage]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

see thats the point, ranger wasnt supposed to do "ok damage" people play ranger not to be "a normal job" they play it to be outstanding...

This implies that Rangers were designed to be necessarily superior to other melee jobs, and that just isn't true. Rangers were the benefit of a lucky happenstance in the game mechanics which allowed them to be both extremely accurate, extremely damaging, and still keep up a good defensive posture. Anyone who didn't see a nerf coming for this state of affairs from a mile off has been living in a cave.


Icemage

[DakAttack]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

That implies people living in caves are out of touch, and disconnected from reality, which is true in certain cases, but those Rangers that actually believed their job was created to be the best lived in their own world. They sat on the upper hand, and never looked down to see how the rest of us had it. I can understand if they didn't see it coming, and that they would be devastated, but a lot of them have taken it too far. On top of that there have been tons of people who sympathize with them. As a Dragoon I'm glad we've been made equals, but there are some of us who feel we should sympathize.

Yea right, what goes aroud comes around.

[Hereaux]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

That implies people living in caves are out of touch, and disconnected from reality, which is true in certain cases, but those Rangers that actually believed their job was created to be the best lived in their own world. They sat on the upper hand, and never looked down to see how the rest of us had it. I can understand if they didn't see it coming, and that they would be devastated, but a lot of them have taken it too far. On top of that there have been tons of people who sympathize with them. As a Dragoon I'm glad we've been made equals, but there are some of us who feel we should sympathize.

Yea right, what goes aroud comes around.

/clap

[peacemaker]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

In the name of balancing jobs, perhaps the solution would have been better to strengthen the other jobs rather than nerfing RNG and NIN. Wouldn't you be happier to see new things added to rather than subtracted from your jobs?

[Icemage]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

In the name of balancing jobs, perhaps the solution would have been better to strengthen the other jobs rather than nerfing RNG and NIN. Wouldn't you be happier to see new things added to rather than subtracted from your jobs?

Not when it was clear that RNG was overpowered and broken. Look at the job mix in any good HNM LS pre-update and you'll see half a dozen or more Rangers, but less than a handful (usually 1-3) of any other melee job. I have a feeling that if they could, almost all HNMLS would have preferred everyone to have RNG. That's the most clear indicator that there was a severe balance problem.

As for Ninja, none of the good ninjas I know even noticed the shadows problem. The current theory being floated is that there was a hidden enmity buff tacked onto offensive ninjutsu along with the nerf to Utsusemi to counter the loss. Having seen a few ninjas in action since the update, I would tend to agree with this theory.


Icemage

[peacemaker]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

Not when it was clear that RNG was overpowered and broken. Look at the job mix in any good HNM LS pre-update and you'll see half a dozen or more Rangers, but less than a handful (usually 1-3) of any other melee job. I have a feeling that if they could, almost all HNMLS would have preferred everyone to have RNG. That's the most clear indicator that there was a severe balance problem.

As for Ninja, none of the good ninjas I know even noticed the shadows problem. The current theory being floated is that there was a hidden enmity buff tacked onto offensive ninjutsu along with the nerf to Utsusemi to counter the loss. Having seen a few ninjas in action since the update, I would tend to agree with this theory.


Icemage

I agree after a couple parties, I didn't notice much of a difference in NIN maintaining hate. But for RNG, Square could have done it two ways – nerf one strong job, or add new abilties to 4-5 other not-as-strong jobs; they obviously took the easy way out. Maybe you don't like learning new abilities or having your job improved, but most people do, especially if you have played the game for over 3 years and nothing much has been added to any of the jobs.

[poweryoga]

Re: Quit your B****ing and read this!

having retards in the party that doesn't know how to position is the bard's problem before, and after the patch. That's not an excuse. Besides, you can still communicate with them to get in position, and forfitting a song doesn't impact their base performance, only their potential. Rangers on the other hand, has their base and potential limitted severely.

Of course mobs follow the person that has the most hate, that's what tanks are for. You don't know however, what the players are going to do to make it lose hate. If they don't do anything stupid, great! If they do, you're screwed out of a shot, which is worse if its a barrage/WS. takes a lot longer to build up 100% tp now than it does to recast a song. Also a very big liability if you're standing near mages and let loose a sidewinder. Gobbie bomb drop, weapon AOE, etc etc. See where this is going? Also, for other tight lvling places, you don't have the luxury of having room to move around because of aggro problems.

Why would I pay 20k for a stack of bullets, pay for +1 gears for the extra accuracy I NEED in order to hit anything anymore, when warriors/mnks can do the same amount of damage for lesser equipment?

again, for someone who has never played ranger before (or any melee really), you don't know how much the game mechanics has changed. All your statements are assumptions, not first hand experience. Having +100~ accuracy, i would hope to have at least a 90% accuracy rating on most mobs I fight. Show me a warrior with 100 accuracy and I'll show you a warrior with more accuracy than a ranger can ever have.

again, to the know-nothings that keep saying deal with it, of course people will deal with it, there's nothing they can do about it. I however am not going to waste any more of my time with rangerhood when I have to shoot away money just to be the equilvalent of a warrior with a one-time deposit for an axe, but with much less survivability and reliability.

The main problem with rangers now is their unreliable performance. Don't give me bullshit about "just move into position", because for a lot of mission fights and BCNMs, you don't have a luxury for that.

Fishing nerf? Sorry, like you said, anybody that didn't see it coming, being as it is the biggest source of gil inflow and cause of inflation in the game, has to be living in a cave. Rusty caps bringing in billions of gil every day? Fishbots lvling up for weeks on end in the same spot? How can you not change something that is destroying the economy? I fish myself, so don't give me stupid crap about the fishing nerf because it doesn't affect your performance outside of a fishing hole. I also can't remember SE nerfing any other craft, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

There's 2 nerfs I can remember for other classes, also add more if I missed any.

1) TP nerf: hits all classes. Rangers were unaffected because everything is 1-hit.
2) SATA nerf. Now you can't have thieves tricking onto the tank from the front.

Neither is a direct damage reduction, much unlike this patch. So rangers can still do good damage? yes, of course. Reliably? no. Worth it? definately no.