Difference between Taru RNG and Elv RNG worth fussing over?

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Okies, clarification

Originally posted by DrSerpico
Sacrifice a rushed pull outside perfect circumstances for chain 6, pull 2 mobs at once and shadowbind in order while you go all out on the first mob, which WILL make you take hits, even if you have utsu: ichi.

Even in a situation like this, I would expect the mages to sleep the 2nd mob until we finished with the first. If it was an unsleepable mob (e.g. bones or something), I wouldn't have pulled it. If there is a high risk of me dying with my normal 900 HP, then there is still a substantial risk of me dying with the 1200(?) HP of a Galka. The risk of 10 minute downtime and lost exp is not worth the reward of one extra mob in the chain.

I just don't see many practical situations where more HP should make a difference.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
Since that extra RACC came from gear, I took that statement to mean that you were saying that his racial AGI advantage was eclipsed by your gear RACC advantage (i.e. your gear trumped his base stats), and based on that, you didn't think the extra AGI was that big of a deal (compared to more HP or STR).

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

Must I repeat myself AGAIN?

Dan, PLEASE read through my posts and understand what I'm saying. You seem to find one sentence you disagree with, then hang onto that for dearlife while IGNORING THE CONTEXT.

You do realize this entire thread is about RACIAL DIFFERENCES, correct? I am talking about the RACIAL DIFFERENCE in agility, andt he RACIAL DIFFERENCE in HP. Not 1 agi vs 1 hp!

Please read everything and pay attention to my posts, and this entire thread no less. My posts are not that hard to comprehend.

So Nsx had about 9 more base AGI than me, and I had about 3-400 more HP than him (unsure about exact numbers here... correct me if I'm wrong Nsx.. it's been a while since I've played). What my whole post was saying is that I believe that 9 AGI (which would be the equivalent of 4 or less RNG ACC about) is not as useful as 3-400 HP. Understand..?

To put it in reasonable perspective, I can't imagine a leveling RNG ever equipping +HP gear solely for the +HP stats, yet I see them equipping +AGI all the time. If extra HP is really more useful than extra AGI, more RNGs would be equipping +HP gear, would they not?

Your "reasonable perspective" is quite convenient, not to mention misleading. It has nothing to do with the point of this thread or my posts (racial differences). Drone earring (agi+3) vs Pigeon's earring (hp+20) is nowhere near as close as the racial differences of agi and hp. To wit, if I wanted to ignore all other arguments and throw in something rational, I could use this argument, "More rangers wear ranger's necklace than peacock charm, so apparently 5 RNG ATK is more useful than 5 RNG ACC." Is this true? Not necessarily. But this is essentially the same type of argument you are using.

Let's see. If you could trade a Merman Ring or whatever... that's +10 RNG ACC right? So in the 4 RNG ACC = 300 HP tradeoff... the equivalent ring would have to be about +800 HP. For some reason I think that many RNG would prefer that +800 HP ring over the +11 RNG ACC ring.

To put it in better perspective, if a RNG could trade their 2 drone earrings (agi+3 each) for 2 HP+150 earrings... it may happen. Especially if the HP+150 earrings were as easy to get and buy as drone earrings. (Remember, we have to factor in price and availability just like you did with the ranger's necklace vs peacock charm argument). Actually, I for one would definitely trade my 2 drone earrings for those HP earrings.

Since this entire thread is talking about RACIAL DIFFERENCES, it's unfair and irrelevant to throw in an argument about what people wear while xp'ing, solely because the racial difference in this case has no equivalent through equipment bonuses. Surely you see the difference.

[imac2much]

Re: Re: Okies, clarification

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
Even in a situation like this, I would expect the mages to sleep the 2nd mob until we finished with the first. If it was an unsleepable mob (e.g. bones or something), I wouldn't have pulled it. If there is a high risk of me dying with my normal 900 HP, then there is still a substantial risk of me dying with the 1200(?) HP of a Galka. The risk of 10 minute downtime and lost exp is not worth the reward of one extra mob in the chain.

I can see your point there, and it makes sense. But look at it in another light: if there is a slight risk you dying with your 900 HP, then there will probably be next to no chance of dying with 1200 HP. Simple as that. This all comes down to certain types of playstyles, as we said before. You like to play safer than sorry, and apparently you don't participate in high xp parties. Nothing wrong with that, but realize many people do take it as a challenge to get as much xp/hour as they can... it is in these instances (and others) that HP is useful.

I just don't see many practical situations where more HP should make a difference.

Please read what other people have said, and the scenarios they have listed. Just because you don't think it's important doesn't mean it's not important for anyone. Once again, everyone has different playstyles, and just like another example someone gave, HP is even more important when fighting HNMs (which you don't do, but some people strive for). No one is trying to convince YOU to sacrifice AGI for HP or anything, if you are happy with your playstyle, that is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that everyone has to play like you, however. Please don't be so close-minded.

[sekaran]

My RSE2 gives me +100HP.. maybe thats one reason I haven't noticed HP being as big of an issue as I'd think. Though I would also trade in +3AGI for an +150HP earring.. For EXP I don't think HP is all too important, but I've seen 1000+ winds from Kirin that take down a Taru RNG

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by imac2much
You do realize this entire thread is about RACIAL DIFFERENCES, correct? I am talking about the RACIAL DIFFERENCE in agility, andt he RACIAL DIFFERENCE in HP. Not 1 agi vs 1 hp!

Please read everything and pay attention to my posts, and this entire thread no less. My posts are not that hard to comprehend.

So Nsx had about 9 more base AGI than me, and I had about 3-400 more HP than him (unsure about exact numbers here... correct me if I'm wrong Nsx.. it's been a while since I've played). What my whole post was saying is that I believe that 9 AGI (which would be the equivalent of 4 or less RNG ACC about) is not as useful as 3-400 HP. Understand..?

The only reason I even mentioned any gear-related claims at all is because you brought up your higher net accuracy with more RACC, which seemed to be used to support the idea that more AGI wasn't that big of a deal. RACC differences are strictly from gear. Without the mention of better accuracy with more RACC, I wouldn't have brought up gear.

Let's see. If you could trade a Merman Ring or whatever... that's +10 RNG ACC right? So in the 4 RNG ACC = 300 HP tradeoff... the equivalent ring would have to be about +800 HP. For some reason I think that many RNG would prefer that +800 HP ring over the +11 RNG ACC ring.

Depends on the level. At LV55, I would take RACC+11 over HP+800 in a heartbeat. HP+800 does nothing for you unless you lose at least 800 HP, which should not be happening on anything near a regular basis. I don't see how sinking that much mana into healing a RNG (who would be lucky to have the defense of construction paper) could possibly be time-efficient in the pre-endgame levels. As you said, maybe this is a difference in playstyle.

[imac2much]

I think we're beginning to see eye to eye here, which is a great thing.

The reason I brought up RNG ACC (which as you say is gear related thing) is because *that is the sole reason rangers boost agi*. What other reason do we use AGI for? To increase our RNG ACC, correct? (Yes, it slightly increases the bonus from our WS's, but the main reason, and sometimes only significant reason, is to increase our ranged accuracy). I think we can both agree with that.

That is the only reason I compared it to RNG ACC. The entire argument is still in terms of racial (relative) differences. I think you get that point now as well.

As for different playstyles... you are correct. Everyone has a different playstyle, and it is definitely not my place to say who is "right" or "wrong", and I don't even believe there is a right or wrong. For your playstyle, you may not need it. However, for the way I play, both in XP and in endgame, I definitely need HP. I definitely would get 800 HP instead of 10 RNG ACC. I also know several other RNG would agree with me.

Of course, this doesn't make us "right" (I don't believe majority opinion is necessarily the correct opinion). But now I'm sure you realize why we're having this discussion in the first place. This thread and racial debate was never directed solely at you, so please don't presume that every argument is directed at you. You may not think HP is that important, but several other RNG's do. For instance, from level 55-59, perhaps I would like the +8 rng acc or whatever I'd get from rings (merman's is level 70 I think), but from 60 onwards, I have US+PPA like I said in a previous post. I'd take extra HP in a heartbeat.

Like I said before, I consider xp pt's a challenge... I want to get as much xp/hour as possible. Many other players wish to maximize their efficiency as well. In these cases, to kill faster and get higher chains, you need to go all out at times even when the monster isn't near dead. At these times I will have aggro, and I consider HP important to keep me alive. How else do my parties consistently get xp chain 5's on IT++'s? Chain 6+ on IT's? But not everyone has to or wants to play like that, so I can imagine cases where HP isn't a factor. But to get as much xp/hour as possible, I still believe HP is very important for a high damage dealer like RNG.

In conclusion, my playstyle isn't the correct one... but neither is yours. You don't think HP is important, but most RNG I've talked to do. That's about it.

[Thegod]

I dont see how a player at level 45 would ever need more HP.

I mean you have no slugshot and thf's have sata to keep the mob stuck on the tank.,


what so your fighting flys with a bow and piercing is strong to flying mobs, thats all well and good, i am still not seeing the need for more HP over anything at that level.


The whole one shot thing end game makes alot of sense i guess, you cant deal dmg if your dead.


I would pass on the 150 HP earring, and thats a dream anyway so it shouldnt even be talked about because after all it doesnt exsist and nothing even close to it exsist.


If that was the case maybe you'd see a ranger's wearing a bomb queen ring..

untill all the rng accuracy gear becomes available (im gonna say 72 with the intro of dusk gears) I think rng acc and agi are the two most inportant stats..

rng attack and str come next

then maybe you could get into HP, but IMO i'd take more mnd for status ammo additional affect.


maybe if we are talking about the advantages of race alone i'd take HP as a very solid advantage of picking an elvaan or galkan (mithra arnt that far behind humes in max HP)

[imac2much]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Thegod, before you make some strange post, READ THROUGH THE THREAD THOROUGHLY please.

The entire thread is a racial differences thread.

The ONLY reason I brought up an imaginary +150 HP earring is because THAT'S what the equivalent difference of racial bonuses would equate to!!

Choosing Galka over Taru will (among other things) give about +3-400 HP at level 65 or so and -9 AGI. So the only EQUIVALENT to a drone earring (agi+3) in racial differences would be some easily acquirable +150 HP earring. Do you get it?

Bomb queen ring is not a fair comparison. You would sacrifice 8-12 RNG ACC from one ring for +75 HP. The racial difference of 9 AGI is already less than the equivalent of 4 RNG ACC, yet I get +3-400 more HP from that. So for +10 RNG ACC I would need a HP+800 Ring to get the same racial equivalent bonus (and as easily acquirable as a merman ring to boot).

Not only that, but I already stated that most of this would be ENDGAME, and if for xp PT's, I only stated examples where you would do HIGH damage (in other words, sharpshot, sidewinder, barrage, sidewinder to finish chain 5+). Why bring up level 45?

Sigh, read all posts thoroughly before making an irrelevant response.

Originally posted by Thegod
maybe if we are talking about the advantages of race alone i'd take HP as a very solid advantage of picking an elvaan or galkan (mithra arnt that far behind humes in max HP)

What the hell? That's the ONLY THING I've been talking about!!!! This is really getting frustrating.

So basically you AGREE with me, yet you make a post that tries to COUNTER nonexistent arguments I supposedly made. Geez people, read posts thoroughly, don't just read one sentence then respond, unless you want to look like a fool. I addressed ALL your points already, but you just didn't read them. Not only that, you didn't even understand the freakin main point of my posts, which is entirely about RACIAL DIFFERENCES.

[ElvaanEgoist]

Thegod, could you please stop blighting interesting discussions with your irrelevant ramblings.

I am really interested in what Spider-Dan and imac2much have to discuss on this topic, and your constant interjecting with nonsense is most annoying.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Thegod

untill all the rng accuracy gear becomes available (im gonna say 72 with the intro of dusk gears) I think rng acc and agi are the two most inportant stats..

only pants are good for ranger.

You really are ignorant, and have obviously never been in a multi ranger PT. When you are going for chain6+, you dont always have time to even cast blink, and having that hp REALLY helps. HP is very very important - it's the reason I wear cassie on my RNG. I'm sure once you're a higher level you'll understand that, becuase you really show a lack of experience in the game, and you arguing skills / reading comprehension rival your knowledge of the game D;

[Thegod]

ahh umm ok

i make up for all of the above in maturity...


a wise man once said never argue w/ fools......if i am sooo idiotic you should let my stupidness destroy me is the true meaning of that statement.

child you have alot ot learn, and as do i because i cannot fully ignore fools.

anyway i have a cassie earring, and i wear it when stacking str, i wear a flora cor. to get the HP (only 30 of it though)


i didnt say HP was useless, i in fact said it was usefull for the whole one shot thing, i just never actively go after HP, if i can fill a slot with rng acc, or rng attack, or agi, or str then thats wut im gonna put there.


i also have a triuph earring waiting for me at 67, so its not like im rng acc, agi or die.


like i also said, at my level there really is no use for HP to me, and i only party in 3+ rng parties....since level 43 i think.

skill >> gear >> race

bottom line if you think everyone is the same pulling, think again

your past 60 so i know you've pulled raptors before and i know you've gotten back to camp w/ no shadows...

our puller has striders so thats never a problem, but when hes gone i pull and 950 hp at level 60 is more then enough to make it back to camp.


pulling w/o losing all shadows and takin damage >>> HP

and yeah even all the way across the lil valley ive made it back with 0 dmg done (the mobs all the way across not me)

[imac2much]

Holy crap!

Thegod, you really don't know when to stop.

Not only have you gone on a totally irrelevant tangent, but you're repeating arguments that have already been DISCUSSED... if you'd just read the thread, maybe you'd realize this.

Several people have stated, countless times, that it depends on your playing style. You are just listing your own personal playstyle right now. It's not the "correct" playstyle, because there is no "correct" playstyle.

You miss the entire point. Basically all you did in your previous post was IGNORE ALL VALID INFORMATION in this thread.

You made a post to argue with my points, then your final paragraph ended up AGREEING WITH ME.

Do you even know how to argue, debate, or form a coherent and intelligent counterargument?

Look at what you said closely:

maybe if we are talking about the advantages of race alone i'd take HP as a very solid advantage of picking an elvaan or galkan (mithra arnt that far behind humes in max HP)

*gasp* that is the only point I was discussing my posts. RACIAL DIFFERENCES.

I don't care what gear you "prefer" or whether you think "skill >> gear" or whatever. Who cares? That's not the point of this entire thread, it's about race.

I can bring up stupid and irrelevant arguments into this thread too, anyone can. It doesn't make you seem any smarter. I could start saying "e-bow is so worth it" or something... but would that matter, true or not? No, it has nothing to do with this thread.

In fact, your entire post makes absolutely no sense.

First you accuse us all of being immature. Then you say you will make up for it with "maturity."

This is your idea of "maturity"? Irrelevant arguments with horrible spelling and grammar, all of which ignore the entire point of the current debate? What kind of "maturity" is this? You also indirectly called all other posters "fools"... that's "mature"? Maybe in your own world. I'm not the "grammar police", as long as I can understand someone's post, I don't care how they type. But since you insulted everyone by calling us immature and fools, then you presume to be "mature," it's only fitting.

Back on topic, I still believe that to obtain 8-10k xp/hour, you WILL get hit. If I wanted, I could settle for 4k xp/hour (still a decent amount) and fight IT's safely. I already stated that I like taking xping as a challenge, and to get 8-10k xp/hour, you WILL get hit. That time casting utsusemi:ichi could be the difference in getting a chain 5 for 380 xp or resetting the chain.

Thegod, it's still possible to save face. Just stop your pointless arguments that have nothing to do with the thread. If you have something constructive to add like Dan did, go ahead, I don't mind a good (intelligent) debate. If it's irrelevant and presumptuous (again), you'll just make yourself look like a fool (again).

[neighbortaru]

Heh, Rugal, I hope the recent vigor in your postings is a sign of your renewed interest in the game. You are a good source of information to have wandering Vanadiel. /salute

[Kagerou]

Originally posted by imac2much
As for different playstyles... you are correct. Everyone has a different playstyle, and it is definitely not my place to say who is "right" or "wrong", and I don't even believe there is a right or wrong. For your playstyle, you may not need it. However, for the way I play, both in XP and in endgame, I definitely need HP. I definitely would get 800 HP instead of 10 RNG ACC. I also know several other RNG would agree with me.

So far, I'm agreeing with everything u said so far except for the example u used here. ANY job with ANY race would take +800 HP over ANY +10 stat boosting equipment both endgame and XP situations. I'm pretty sure there is no equipment that offers more than +100hp single handedly (I think I might be missing something here though). To be realistic, around lvl 55-60 if u are offered +50~75hp equip and a RACC+7~10 equip, it would be tuff to choose one gear over the other, since as u stated above, playstyles differ greatly among players. However, considering the stat disadvantages each race face, players would probably lean toward equiping the gear to boost their races stat disadvantage. Most galka players that already has more than 200~300 hp than a taru would probably lean toward the +7~10RACC over the +50~75HP, regardless of the fact that HP is very important. Why? Before endgame, those +hp wont be a definite factor of ur survival. Did that +hp really help u survive that hit from the mob? +hp gears are pretty murky in the fact that its so hard to see it "come into use." Maybe u were chaining 5 and the mob used a WS on u and u ended up surviving with 10 hp. Thats the only time where I feel that +10hp on some gear helped. But think about it, what is the chance of surviving with <50hp? I've remembered surviving with around 100 hp but almost never less.

Rugal+Spider, I'm learning a lot from u guys, correct me if I'm wrong, any information from u guys are appreciated

[imac2much]

Hm I see your point; I'll elaborate on that example a bit.

Remember, we are just talking about racial differences, and when it comes to RNG, there are only a few racial stat differences that make any impact. For argument's sake, I have only been focusing on HP and AGI, although STR is also a factor. I agree that a +800 HP would be incredibly overpowered, and thus favored over any +10 stat ring generally... but this is the ratio at which Galka and Taru differ in HP and AGI. Like I said, a Taru at my level would have 9 or so more AGI, but 300 or so less AGI... and to compare it to a +10 RNG ACC ring, that would be about +800 HP. I'm not saying they should make a ring like this, I'm just trying to emphasize how significant the HP bonusf or Galka and Elvaan are.

As for reinforcing our racial disadvantages... well honestly I don't think Galka have many disadvantages when it comes to RNG. Galka shortcomings are MP and INT, which RNG don't really need. Our AGI is close to that of a Hume, so I see no harm reinforcing our strengths.

Now, to understand why HP is important for my style of play even in xp'ing... this may be tougher to explain. I think many people have the mistaken notion that the only time my extra HP helped me is when I ended a fight with less than 300 HP. No... you see, I generally only partied with NIN (or very well equipped PLDs... but generally NIN). Therefore, our WHM's always had ample MP during our chains... healer MP was never the issue. Extra HP for a RNG just allows for a larger "buffer" for when we get aggro.

For example, my party is trying to get chain 5, so after just a few seconds, I unload a sidewinder + barrage + sidewinder on the monster. Hate is squarely on me now... utsusemi will help a bit, but the objective now (with multi-RNG PT) is to kill it asap anyway. WHM starts casting Cure III or IV... monster gets me with a good crit and WS but I survive thanks to the healing. More of this ensues and we eventually kill it and keep the chain. However, it's also possible that the healer would not have been able to finish the cast if I had 300-400 less HP, i.e. I had a smaller buffer. Maybe the healer only had 1 second left but then I died... these situations happen often (just ask Nsx). The more buffer I have the better.

HP Buffer doesn't only take place when I'm trying to kill asap on high chains.. even in normal fights I get aggro quite easily. While waiting for the tank's provoke to refresh and WHM to notice I have aggro then cure me, that buffer helps. If I have 100-200% TP near the beginning of the fight, it would be a waste to just save that til the end of the fight to kill the monster, so I might use a sidewinder relatively early (pinning all the aggro on me), as long as the other RNG's can fire too (to spread the hate and kill it faster). But if one of them miss, I may have aggro for much longer than I had expected, once again making that buffer important.

So you can see why I like lots of HP for my style of play. Even with 9 more AGI I'll still occasionally miss sidewinders... it will barely change my accuracy% in the long run. At times I would switch out my Carapace+1 rings (or whatever rng acc rings I had at the time) to Sniper's rings so I could hit more often with my melee, and I never noticed a significant difference in accuracy% in parsings.

And neighbortaru... probably not hehe, especially since I have no gear on my character anymore. I recently quit WoW but I'll probably just take a break from MMORPG's in general for a while. I'm just posting because it gives me something to do at work :sweat: