Difference between Taru RNG and Elv RNG worth fussing over?

[Laehn]

Thats a good point. I get tired of people saying how good their race is with any job. Its nice to know this one can be settled so easily.

On a side note, ive pted with a taru rng a few times before and she did a wonderful job. Ive pted with lots and lots of rngs, and the ones that stick in my mind are the ones that arent full of themselves. Attitude>all

[sekaran]

I don't think I've ever been one-shotted.. therefore I don't believe HP is that big of a deal. With Utsusemi, having people in my PT capable of Flash or Stun, it doesn't seem all that important in my mind. I do wish I had my STR as a Taru RNG though.. :sweat:

[Frumply]

Whichever way you go, bear in mind that for normal leveling purposes the differences in damage would only be a matter of whether YOU are satisfied with it or not. Even if you're raising it to be a member of some HNM group or something of that sort, you'll still be tons better than most standard melees if you only consider damage output. If I were you I'd use the Elv though, as you already have subs leveled to a point.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by sekaran
I don't think I've ever been one-shotted.. therefore I don't believe HP is that big of a deal. With Utsusemi, having people in my PT capable of Flash or Stun, it doesn't seem all that important in my mind. I do wish I had my STR as a Taru RNG though.. :sweat:

Well, not exactly one-shotted per se... what I mean is that it takes a few seconds for the tanks (or someone else) to get aggro back, or to kill the monster. And in those few seconds, the monster will get some hits on you. Generally the healer can keep you alive if the monster is doing constant consistent damage (although this is also a waste of MP) but then if it gets a big spike of damage (crit + sickle slash, for example, from the bark tarantula in dragon aery)... bye bye taru.

Even then, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be taru. As other people have said, equipment, attitude, and intelligence mean much more than race. Nsx is a taru yet he's the best ranger I've ever partied with (as RNG, not as PLD), and we've had tons of other ranger teammates before. He may die a lot but we kill tons faster because of him. Kamikaze!

[nsxtasy]

I fully stand behind what rugal is saying in terms of HP.

The whole time we spt from 40 to 68 or so, Rugal died like 2 or 3 times. I died probably 20+ times. I just can't survive once Utsusemi goes down. Most of the time a cure will be mid-cast and I get cut down. That is where the extra 2-300+ hp galka/elvaan have makes the difference. That extra couple seconds they are alive is vital.

That being said, play style probably had a greater effect on how often I died more than anything

Despite the disadvantages though, I'd never be anything but Taru .

Keep rockin' the Rng

[Thegod]

I dont think HP is an inportant stat to rangers...

I just dont feel it is inportant whatsoever...


we have crap def crap evasion.....the job is made to be a paper thin insane DD.


You dont think agi is a factor? I really just dont see how this is possible for a level 75 to believe this.

OK fine tons of rng accuracy, thats all well in good but as you are aware +100 rng accuracy and no agi isnt gonna get you the benefit of 100 rng accuracy if you know what i mean.

...so you both are level 75, you used the merrit system to up your damagesome way correct?

...and thats the same for every level 75 ranger regaurdless of race correct??


and an elvaan ranger wearing crimson gauntlets is just as good as an elvaan ranger wearing sory. kote correct??


im just wondering because race and agi mean around .o1% at level 75 correct??

but and ill say it again, an elvaan rng wearing a sery. kote is equall to an elvaan ranger wearing crimson gauntlets????


yeah please explain that to me, i just get this weird thing when all the 75s in the ls that are mithra wear crims, and all the 75s who arnt mithra or taru wear sery. kote, im just wondering why that is, but it probably has nothing to do with the need or lack of need for 15 additonal agi, that has nothing to do with it im sure.

[Omni]

Originally posted by nsxtasy

Despite the disadvantages though, I'd never be anything but Taru .

Keep rockin' the Rng

(|word|)
taru maintank here and i second that

[imac2much]

Thegod, your presumptuous and patronizing tone of voice is totally unnecessary, and even ridiculous, in light of all the incorrect information you've stated in several posts.

If you think something is correct just because of what some people wear, you need to do some testing yourself.

Oh wait, but if we go and find the "details" to back ourselves up, we're just "geeks" right?

Laughable.

I've done tons of parsing in all my parties. The issue we're talking about is HP difference between RACE and AGi difference between RACE. Taru has a noticeably more AGI than Galka at high levels (8 or so I believe?)... but does that matter? I think from my equipment I probably had 4 or 5 more ranged acc than Nsx... yet my ranced % in all parses was ALWAYS higher. That's like saying 4 RNG ACC > 8 AGI. Hence why I say the difference of AGI from RACES is insignificant, if it doesn't even match the equivalence of 4 RNG ACC.

Trying to deduce game mechanics from what some random people wear at high levels is ridiculous. What people wear is largely based on SPECULATION (I *think* this lets me be more effective) and STATUS (I won this from an HNM so I think I'll showboat it around/I won this from an HNM so it must be better than other equipment).

The problem with speculation is that normally viewed "data" is rarely ever accurate. Just like when people used to think Joyeuse procced 80%+ of the time.. it's because you notice the double attacks MORE OFTEN than the non-double attacks (the actual parsed and tested rate is 50%). Likewise, people thought the Double Attack passive from subbing WAR was near the 25% range, when it was proven to be around 8-10% after months of testing and parsing.

And already several posters other than myself have clearly indicated why HP is important for certain styles of play from RNG.

If you have a point to make, Thegod, state it clearly, distinctly, and with valid proof. You already have a track record of making incredibly ridiculous arguments (archery is based on mind? markmanship is based on AGI solely and not STR?), so you of all people should not ever take on a condescending nor patronizing tone with others. And if you don't like getting into the real facts, numbers, and "details", then just stay out of arguments altogether, because otherwise you have nothing to back yourself with.

[Rai]

When leveling in Valley of Sorrows I had both Hume and Tarus RNGs die while out on the pulls. By the time I partied with a Mithra RNG there I had gotten into the practice of running out and Flashing the Mob while they were still on their way to camp. When I partied with an Elvaan RNG there I sat at camp and waited and only once had to got out to save him, but that was because he forgot to cast utsusemi before he pulled.

As a tank I have come to the conclusion HP is important to any job that pulls or acts as a trick partner. If you can't make it back to the party you aren't doing your job. In certain zones I often have to run out and meet the puller to save their life. If you can't withstand some hits as a trick partner, then we don't do the SATA opener.

The fact is Pullers get hit. Utsusemi gets wiped out. Trick partners get hit, and THFs will sit back and wait on their TP or because the timer is almost up and they wanted to get their SATA in instead of just letting the tank know he should voke. So HP is important to people filling these roles.

I can adjust my tactics to fit the job and race make up of my party but some combos make my job easier. So given a choice between Elvaan RNG in my party or Taru, knowing either one equally I'd take the Elvaan. I'd feel very confidant I could keep them alive. Just like picking between an Elvaan WHM and a Taru WHM, I'd pick the Taru. I'd feel very confidant they'd keep me alive.

[Omni]

just curious, how are these ppl pulling? not to be sarcastic but, do they run up to the mob engage and swing at it and start running back?

im a tank as well, and the only time the puller would get hit on the way back was b/c he linked something. and if youre linking a lot on pulls, maybe they should be more careful pulling or have someone else pull. baring any mishaps, i dont see how pulling at max range distance doesnt give you more than enough time to bring it back to camp so the tank can provoke it.

[Rai]

just curious, how are these ppl pulling? not to be sarcastic but, do they run up to the mob engage and swing at it and start running back?

I don't know you so I don't know if you are joking, being sarcastic or what.

But if you don't understand this happening you either never partied in Valley of Sorrows or only partied there when you were the only party in the Zone.

Yeah, when I partied there, things went really well if we were the only party. As soon as another party comes in, most often they'd get out into the zone at the very end of the tunnel forcing our puller to go through them, also the speed at which 2 parties go through the Velociraptor forces the puller to go further and further out. Even a THF using flee can be run down by a Velociraptor. So that is how they'd get killed. And I saw plenty of other parties lose their pullers too.

[sekaran]

I think I only died once while pulling in Valley of Sorrows. Raptors are insanely quick.. even catch up to you after a Spartan bullet procs. I've seen Hume, Galka, and Elvaan RNG die pulling there too.

[imac2much]

Raptors in valley caught up to me even with Striders :sweat:

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by imac2much
The most important difference between all the races IMO is not AGI or STR... it's HP.

Nsx has already stated why AGI means almost nothing at high levels... RNG ACC is the EASIEST derivative stat to boost through equipment in the entire game... so much such that AGI will mean almost nothing at high levels... comparing between two high level RNG with optimal equipment, with one having 10 agi less than the other.. they would probably have as little as 0.01% difference in ranged accuracy. It's that infinitessimal.

I think that there is a tendency among players to look at only the endgame stats, and use that to compare races.

Sure, at 70+, every race can get enough RACC to land 100% Sidewinders at will... but there's a lot of leveling involved before you get to that point.

In the levels where RNGs semi-regularly miss Sidewinder, I don't believe that 10+ AGI is an insignificant difference.

This is important especially in RNG+THF parties. At high levels PLDs generally prefer RNG/WAR to complement a THF or DRK/THF since Arching Arrow/Heavy Shot is weaker than Sidewinder, so stronger damage (and perhaps provoke) is necessary to guarantee the monster will turn to the RNG to start the skillchain. In these instances, you won't have utsusemi, you'll probably be berserked to make your paper armor turn into rice paper, and you have to survive the couple seconds until the THF or /THF finishes the skillchain. HP HP HP means everything here.

However, if your tank is a NIN or WAR, you'd probably be subbing NIN anyway, so the extra HP would make a marginal difference at best.

I know you speak on the RNG/WAR dynamic from the perspective of a high-level PLD, but honestly, I really don't see any high-level RNGs subscribing to that theory in practice. It is extremely rare that I hear a high-level RNG say that they regularly sub WAR, and every time I run a /search, the subjob numbers are ridiculously lopsided. (For example, at the time of this post, of the 46 RNGs LV66-75 on our server, 2 of them were subbing WAR.) Given that PLD is, by far, the most common tank job (post-30), it doesn't look like the HP advantage is one that's being used.

[Kensaki]

I think several people have forgotten that SE themselves changed the calculation for several markmanship weapons including the ever so lovable Musketeer Gun +1.

That would explain why the taru hit for less even when he was using a markmanship weapon.