Difference between Taru RNG and Elv RNG worth fussing over?

[ElvaanEgoist]

Originally posted by Thegod
well i find that impossible to believe because marsk ws damage is based on agi not str....


so maybe per normal shot the elvaan outdamaged the taru...

but no way on WS damage, its not possible sorry maybe you were seeing something else.

nsxtasy has already posted that the Taru WS was lower, cretin.

No, this isn't a 'ghost' account, I am a genuinely new poster. I used to lurk and enjoy reading good threads with players parsing results, comparing strategies and generally make a lot of sense talking about the Ranger class in the game.

However reading Thegods trashy output has motivated me to register and voice my displeasure. Honestly, I have never encountered a more opinionated, clueless, idiotic, moronic poster on ANY internet forum. In almost every thread.

Congratulations!

[Rogan]

I realized ranged ws's are dependent on agi but I dont see how I could "see something different" for about 3 straight hours...for whatever reason mithra hume and elvaan (have only pted with one galka rng before at lvl 45 or so) always outdamage taru, with ws and DPS

[Thegod]

*cough* fake account

..ANYWAY


Dunno then there must be something else your not including...like level differences, and any major gear pieces...

I.e. republic pants over nocts+1


the taru in my static hits with a gun for exactly the same ammount on crabs as i do and any elvaan does (110 on normal hits 137 on crits)

our barrage damage w/o buffs is also capped at 577 damage


havent noticed any similar slug damages, majority of slugs on crabs hit for 640, but there have been some big 880 hits by me and the other mithra.

you also have to concider skill cap, alot of people dont have capped skills and go party to cap them w/o telling anyone..


I mean fact is if the WS damage is based on your characters AGi (proven by when str down doesnt affect the dmg at all) then the character with the highest AGI will have the bigger slugs.

I can tell right away, the mithra rng/war we have uses guns when he levels and his normal attacks always do more then mine but he's short about 40 dmg on his slugs.

[Kagerou]

Was ur experience with the taru rng before or after the food nerf? And did the two rng have the same subjob? Its reasonable that the elvaan were hitting 14points more dmg than the taru but a 200dmg difference in slug seem a little too awkward to believe. One or two difference in gear doesn't make a big difference as well :confused:

[Thegod]

lotus is that the evil guy from getbackers on your avy??

anyway before and after ive know this taru forever...

and before we used kabobs both of us and after we used curry both of us.

but im sure your talking to the other guy7 just want it to be known that this taru has outdamaged elvaans many many many times blataintly, and not counting when the elvaan is using a gun so dmg is identical because even then im sure the elvaan is missing more.

elvaans are great dont get me wrong, i am just not a big fan of the elvaan gun users because archery just suits them tons more.

edit: oh yeah why elvaans are better for archery

mind and str the two stats that determind dmg of regular ranged attacks and archery WSs...

elvaans have the highest base stats in those two areas of any race


so additonal dmg from status ammo and normal rng attacks are elvaans rangers specialty.

[nsxtasy]

Once again posting about stuff you have no idea about.

With all weaponskills there are modifiers at the end of the equation.

With ranged skills there are 2 equations.
1. for archery..
2. for marksmanship
I forget the exact formula it has been posted numerous times, but the difference lies in the modifiers at the end of th e equation.

Its something like 5xdmg per shot + modifiers.

For archery, the modifier are something like 30% of your Str and 15% of Agi.
For Marksmanship its just 30% Agi.

But the part of the equation before those modifiers uses all of your stats including STR. That is why Elvaans will do higher damage on WS. Marksmanship isn't solely based upon Agi. It is simply the only 'modifier' used at the end. Str and everything else that figures into how much damage you do per shot still plays the part of the majority of damage.

Elvaan do more damage w/ archery and marksmanship. End of Story. Post 70, they hit every bit as much as every other race and hit for much more damage. Per shot and WS.

[Thegod]

there you go turning a peacefull topic into a all about me priase fest..


/shrug leave it to the geeks to fill in the exact details...

[Tomatoes]

I feel like I'm intruding on this thread somehow. =X

Anyway, I've decided to go Elvaan, for convenience. I already have 2 mains anyway. RNG is just on the side for my LS-static. Well, don't mind me, carry on. I'll just try to absorb whatever you guys say without getting dizzy. XD

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Thegod
there you go turning a peacefull topic into a all about me priase fest..


/shrug leave it to the geeks to fill in the exact details...

Wait, what the hell? I thought the entire point of detailed analysis was to include details? Suddenly when the details don't support your belief, everyone is a "geek"?

What nsxtasy said was correct (although the percentages of the modifiers may be slightly off). He was correct when he said you were posting about something you had no idea about. That is not a flame, that's the truth.

The reason why people think markmanship relies *more* on AGI than archery is because of the testing that studio gobli did concerning WS's (which I have translated and posted somewhere here with the help of Apple Pie). This thread can be found here:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=47276

All WS's still rely on your attack and STR and stuff to determine damage, because they are basically modifiers to your normal damage (which are determined by ATK-DEF checks and STR-VIT checks). Only THEN are the secondary stat bonuses applied, which is where markmanship doesn't have the STR secondary bonus.

Saying blatantly incorrect stuff like this just makes you look bad:

mind and str the two stats that determind dmg of regular ranged attacks and archery WSs...

I never once flamed you since I came back to these boards, but I see now why people seem to take everything you say with a grain of salt.

And no, warning level doesn't mean jack when it comes to someone's credibility.

No need to call other people geeks just because they find information that disproves you. If you don't "care about numbers", then why are you making this debate in the first place?

[Kagerou]

Originally posted by Thegod
lotus is that the evil guy from getbackers on your avy??

yup

Originally posted by imac2much
The reason why people think markmanship relies *more* on AGI than archery is because of the testing that studio gobli did concerning WS's (which I have translated and posted somewhere here with the help of Apple Pie). This thread can be found here:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=47276

All WS's still rely on your attack and STR and stuff to determine damage, because they are basically modifiers to your normal damage (which are determined by ATK-DEF checks and STR-VIT checks). Only THEN are the secondary stat bonuses applied, which is where markmanship doesn't have the STR secondary bonus.

heh, u learn something new everyday I'll probably refer to this link when I decide to lvl my rng+other melee. Thnx for the info Rugal

[Thegod]

ur right

/hides in a corner

very good info....

[Rogan]

Thank you rugal and...if you wanna explain something about my account being "fake" or whatever please do so..

[Thegod]

rogan read the post before your previous post...no1 was talking to you...that comment was directed to someone else.

[Lightseeker]

::fervently tries to stay on topic and avoid the flamers::

I know the OP has already said he/she is going elvaan, I just wanted to say welcome to the most addictive job you will ever have, lol. I love being an elvaan rng. Taru do have a cuteness factor, but I love the look of elvaan rng and the big numbers on my screen. As for subs, I definitely prefer /nin. I am going to fire my weapon as much as I can. If I don't pull hate for at least a few seconds, I'm not doing my job right.

[imac2much]

I'm not sure if someone has already pointed this out... I read the thread but I have missed it, so I apologize if I'm just repeating someone.

The most important difference between all the races IMO is not AGI or STR... it's HP.

Nsx has already stated why AGI means almost nothing at high levels... RNG ACC is the EASIEST derivative stat to boost through equipment in the entire game... so much such that AGI will mean almost nothing at high levels... comparing between two high level RNG with optimal equipment, with one having 10 agi less than the other.. they would probably have as little as 0.01% difference in ranged accuracy. It's that infinitessimal.

STR.. hmm this is a bit more debatable. As Nsx said, tarus will do noticeably less damage per shot than other races... but does it matter that much? In my opinion, not in a normal part, because good rangers know how to control their hate. Since rangers deal so much damage, they will eventually need to "hold back" at one point or another... this just means Tarus can spam ranged a bit more before "holding back." This may change a bit in unique PT setups (such as multi-RNG, or RNG+THF), but that's generally the case.

So why do I rank HP highest in racial difference? First of all, IMO HP and MP are the biggest differences between all races. In other words, the difference in HP and MP have greater impacts than the difference in base stats. For example, playing a Galka BLM or tanking Taru WAR is harder than playing an Elvaan THF. Base stats matter but sometimes the differences are marginal, whereas the difference in HP and MP is clear and makes an immediate impact.

As a RNG you will get hate sooner or later. Will you survive while the healers spam cure and the tank tries to get aggro back? This makes your max HP incredibly important, even for /NIN. Many monsters in Vanadiel have multihit and deadly specials that can lay the smack down on paper rangers, such as jet stream, sickle slash, etc... and higher HP will give you a greater chance of surviving until the monster dies or the tank gets hate back. Back when I spt'ed with Nsx, I probably would go all out and gungho more often than him, yet he still died more often than me, even to the point where he got a bomb queen ring (dunno if he ever used it though). Even though I took tons of hits, I as a Galka had the HP to survive until the monster died (usually), whereas a Taru would die with one monster special plus a couple more hits if utsusemi ran out.

This is important especially in RNG+THF parties. At high levels PLDs generally prefer RNG/WAR to complement a THF or DRK/THF since Arching Arrow/Heavy Shot is weaker than Sidewinder, so stronger damage (and perhaps provoke) is necessary to guarantee the monster will turn to the RNG to start the skillchain. In these instances, you won't have utsusemi, you'll probably be berserked to make your paper armor turn into rice paper, and you have to survive the couple seconds until the THF or /THF finishes the skillchain. HP HP HP means everything here.

So yeah.. Elvaan is a good choice