Level Ninja = (No Thanks)

[greysenn]

/WAR only shines when you have a good THF or /THF. Otherwise you have to hold back too much so that the /NIN will actually do more damage. Unless you don't hold back, in which case you get hit for crazy damage cuz of RNG paper defense, and waste your mages' MP. In that case you're doing more damage at the expense of your actual experience and team play, since that just means more downtime. A well equipped /NIN will get aggro without a doubt if they don't hold back, so I see no way a well equipped /WAR could go all out.

Maybe if you've got an E-bow and spam Ws, then yeah. With the hard shelled crap you're fighting from about 50 until 60 unless you're using poorly times WS and JA's, a good paladin will not lose aggro from regular shots. (Even zerked). By the time a skillchain goes off, mob is dead.

I can see /nin being more useful if you're in solo WS spam mode, but even then I take a little issue with it. Even if you use a WS early, you're going to be tanking until your pally gets hate back, or the mob is dead if you're in a damage stacked party (Multiple blm or rng). Until he does that, you're basically doing jack because you can't effective shoot and blink tank because of weapon delay. In that amount of time, your /war would be unloading stacking the damage up until WS.

[RangerDade]

i used war sub 80% of the time exp, unless you have a really good pld or thf or /thf it probly isnt a great idea, But when you can its fun.

[Beastlord]

I used war about 80% of the time also, never subbed nin unless for BCNM's or helping others with AF's or something. I have a half static. Bard, Pld, and Rdm, we just pull 2 others and I never had to hold back very much even when I use beserk. Hardly ever miss and if you know when to unleash Ws's its fine. But I didnt post to get slammed by some pld cause of my opinions on weather I should lvl nin or not. I'll eventually lvl it, just dont have the everyday patience or time with having a 12 hr job and about 4 other ingame active jobs I lvl. True /nin comes in handy, true the arguement have been posted plenty times, true I could careless what others think I know I have better gear than most rngs in my lvl range and nin just isnt that big a deal to me. But I will try once more.... end of story Imac sorry you had to reply to such irrelevence to your ever busy life. Just be happy I dont know you in real life or I might have to pay you a visit for your little comment.


:angel:

[imac2much]

beast, it's easy to see from your reply that you are too immature to bother arguing with. Just know that none of us care whether you use /WAR or /NIN or /DRG. That's your call.

grey, I can see your point, but you don't fight high DEF mobs forever. In fact, you never really xp on them after robber crabs until steelshells in boyahda, and that only lasts for a while (plus you'll be fighting skimmers at the same time, so the high defense argument doesn't really work here).

After 56 or so you stop fighting crabs and beetles: you generally move on to goblins, raptors, cockatrices, tigers, weapons, flies, birds, big birds, etc. None of these have the Phys Def Up traits that crabs have, so you'll be doing good damage on them once again. At 55 with optimal gear it's easy to pull hate from tanks with JUST ctrl+d spam, not even taking barrage or sidewinder into account. A good PLD will be able to regain hate soon after you use a barrage or sidewinder with a well timed cure, flash, JA, etc, while blink saves you for a few seconds. In this time with /WAR and 'zerk the mob would probably have hit you for 200 damage a hit for 5-6 hits that utsusemi: ichi could have blocked. And in multi DD PTs even taking a few hits with 'zerked RNG DEF is a death wish. When I was fighting bark spiders in Dragon's Aery, our skillchain with RNG/WAR and DRK/THF was the normal zerk+voke+heavyshot -> sata spinning slash. In the 2 or so seconds the RNG had hate (while waiting for DRK/THF to finish skillchain), he would get hit for half to full life (he died twice).

I don't know... very risky :sweat:

[JayblahX]

Originally posted by Beastlord
Just be happy I dont know you in real life or I might have to pay you a visit for your little comment.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Pure trash.

[poweryoga]

Just be happy I dont know you in real life or I might have to pay you a visit for your little comment.

oh no, watch me quiver in my panties.

dumb fuck.

[greysenn]

I still have yet to do that even at 60 with a good pld tank Imac. (Granted, good tank is the important key here.)

this time with /WAR and 'zerk the mob would probably have hit you for 200 damage a hit for 5-6 hits that utsusemi: ichi could have blocked.

Actually the mob probably wouldn't hit me between 500-600 in that period of time, but I have a bit of a different playstyle. The stuff dies after skillchain, or barrage. It's defintely more conservative style than WS spam, but I just don't see where you can skip in extra damage if you're constantly having to blink tank.

I know the stuff post 60 generally has paper armor in comparison, but I still have yet to die with /war anytime I wasn't outright asking for it. Now, I will defintely say /nin is the win if you have a ninja tank, since there is a bit more bounce in those fights than I'd normally like. :sweat:

Oh, forgot to put in that E-bow + scorps is roughly the same as warbow+1 with maining demon arrows. Pretty signficant difference in just average DoT.

[Beastlord]

See this is that BS I'm talking bout with the keyboard thugs around here. I wasnt even beefing with no one and I'm getting flamed left and right from Imac's cockstrokers. Whatever. This is only a forum, and Final Fantasy is only a videogame. Go out and get a life guys. This really isnt that serious.

And thanks Kastel, Grey and anyone else who had positive views on this subject, I just wanted to see what everyone else felt.

[imac2much]

Well in the playstyle I used with RNG/WAR while leveling PLD, they would only get hit as long as you, since after skillchain the hate would be back on me due to THF or /THF closer.

But even in those few seconds, RNG/WAR have died due to Sickle Slash + 1 hit with their 'zerked paper armor >_< They don't WS spam either, the only WS for skillchain, and even in those few hits they can go lose lots of hp fast. I guess it really depends on what type of monsters you're fighting too.

I admit I don't have much experience in PLD PT's with my RNG since I have a NIN in my static. But in the 2 PTs with PLD I have been with, the main difference I noticed was Cover and being able to get aggro back *after a while* with JA/magic. Barrage and WS would still turn the mob on me easily.

But perhaps I haven't been with a good PLD yet... very possible, especially at these levels. Maybe I would be more inclined to use /WAR if my PLD tank was good enough to JA/magic right after I do barrage or WS, and use cover when his timers aren't ready.

One PLD I was with didn't start covering me until I had half life left... so that's a good 30 seconds or so since I used 2 utsusemi: ichi's. I ask him how come he's not using cover, he says "you're not dying yet." What the heck is he saving cover for? o_o

[Steelshine]

I got tired of subbing WAR for RNG. Im only at 41, but even with my 14 Nin I never had to stop. thats why Im leveling Nin right now. @18 in Dunes . I just never see too many 70+ RNG subbing /war. Plus Im doing what I see as best choice. Dont get me wrong, I hate Nin with a passion. But I figure a week or two and get it over with and never worry about it again. My 2 cents.

[imac2much]

Yeah... leveling NIN is definitely a pain. Some people enjoy the job but I never liked it much.. not to mention how useless I feel tanking mandys in Kazham..

I really dislike NIN as a main, but it sure makes a fun sub.

[nekote]

Both war and nin are good subs, its good to have both to see what the situation calls for.

As for people who think that /war sub is the only way to go, wait till you 65+ and your a puller and exp mobs smack u up b4 u can even get back to your pt. Or after you WS and the PLD loses hate that 1 second and the cockatrice turns around and hammer beaks your ass.

[taps]

Never had a problem ripping hate off the tank (no matter what the pt setup was) during 50-60, with NIN sub. I have both at 37, I simply prefer NIN since I get more R.Acc, similiar damage (except on WS of course), and Utsusemi for pulling/tanking before SATA. As I see it I do enough damage without WAR sub, that it really won't make a big difference if I was using Berserk/Warcry etc. I would probably pull hate more, and guess what? I would get hit alot too, more mp, more cure spam, less chaining... From 60 on you will be fighting things which have a lot more evasion, so you will probably want as much R.Acc as you can get.

If you don't care about us telling you to level NIN why the hell are you posting on the forum about leveling it... Do you think we care if you are just another stupid RNG who plays his job in a gimped way?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Just be happy I dont know you in real life or I might have to pay you a visit for your little comment.

See this is that BS I'm talking bout with the keyboard thugs around here. I wasnt even beefing with no one and I'm getting flamed left and right from Imac's cockstrokers. Whatever. This is only a forum, and Final Fantasy is only a videogame. Go out and get a life guys. This really isnt that serious.

Hmmm, looks like 12 year old e-Gangsters have invaded. Ph33r the E-UNITz0zr!!!!111ONEONEELEVEN

[Timoham]

Originally posted by Beastlord
See this is that BS I'm talking bout with the keyboard thugs around here. I wasnt even beefing with no one and I'm getting flamed left and right from Imac's cockstrokers.

Don't post flame bait and you won't get flamed.

[Spider-Dan]

Certainly, if you plan to use high damage weapons (gun/ebow/obow) /WAR seems to be totally useless. I have yet to meet a PLD that could hold hate from just the normal shots on my gun (and that's not even spamming non-stop). Provoke usually doesn't even hold hate from two shots.

I'm in the process of leveling SAM; more for WS spamming while questing than anything else, but I might give it a whirl in an exp party.

And for the record, I found NIN at low levels to be one of the most tedious and unexciting jobs. At least with THF, once you get past the hell phase (1-14) it's really fun, and other jobs get interesting spells and abilities to help you by. NIN only gets DW (boring), tiny damage elemental Ichis (really boring and slow), and Utsusemi (which isn't much fun without the evasion/spells to make it last a significant time).