Sub: Nin vs. RNG and Sidewinder.

[Spider-Dan]

imac, do you use Mermaid Rings or Phalanx Rings?

[imac2much]

Neither. On one slot I have a Jelly Ring (unless some big spell like a ga III or AM is coming up), and in the other I have a VIT ring or Bomb Queen Ring (VIT usually, BQ for Spirits and other specific situations).

However, I do have Joyeuse which makes keeping hate ridiculously easy... the double swing procs about 70-80% of the time (at least that's what it seems to me, no hard logs), which means my +enmity kicks in very often. With such quick TP buildup, I can hit Spirits Within every other fight for 760+ damage, or I can do 2 Swift Blades per fight (100-200 damage each) if I'm not involved in skillchain. I use cures when there are 10-15 second durations between Flash or Voke, and only use JA's when a big aggro move is being readied (a WS or spell or JA). That way the big spike of hate from the JA is not wasted, since it fades extremely quickly compared to other forms of aggro.

P.S. Although I prefer RNG/WAR in PT's, they also scare me greatly. When fighting monsters with strong skills like spiders, perhaps RNG/NIN is a better idea. In my lv 69 PT fighting Bark Spiders in DragonAery, our RNG/WAR died twice... she never gained aggro except for the short period before the DRK/THF tricked Spinning Slash on me, but that's enough time for the spider to do a sickle slash for 800+ damage and one shot her (perhaps with one more hit thrown in for good measure).

[Narru]

Originally posted by imac2much
At level 66+, I definitely prefer RNG/WAR over RNG/NIN. RNG/NIN more often than not CANNOT PULL AGGRO for skillchain purposes, whether they go all out or not.

In another setup, the RNG/NIN used guns and silver bullets. Needless to say, the RNG had no trouble getting aggro whenever he wanted :sweat:

Question for Imac: Given a Rng using guns and silver bullets, do you prefer a Rng/War or a Rng/Nin?

[imac2much]

Unfortunately, I can only answer this with speculation, as I've only PT'ed with one good Gun-toting RNG, and this was pre-70.

In this PT, the RNG was not a part of skillchains (a popular strategy in some of my JP parties lately), while I skillchained with the DRK with cross reaper. Even as RNG/NIN, the RNG could literally pull hate at will... spamming shots and slug shots all the time, it's a good thing he had utsusemi. He would never hold aggro for long, because the few times he got aggro I could get it back within seconds, but blink did save him from a few hits. Plus, whenever DRK and I wanted to skillchain, RNG would start with slug shot and/or barrage to turn the mob, I would use swift blade (no skillchain there of course), then DRK/THF SATA Cross Reaper.

However, at 70 with Joy and Warcry, I've literally had to hold back in every single party involving THF or /THF if I wanted them to trick onto me (sometimes we just let him SATA WS onto the other melee because it's just faster). Usually I have to turn away from the mob for 5-10 seconds while the 2nd melee uses whatever means possible to get aggro (usually a WAR , so warcry, provoke, mistral axe, etc)....

I'm *extremely* eager to PT with another gun toting RNG at my level. I want to see if I can hold aggro from a silver bullet spamming RNG/WAR with my new gear and abilities (plus I got a mermaid ring just in case).

I think the subjob you use would also depend on the PT config,.. i.e. are you going to be involved in skilchain or not? Usually the RNG is, and Heavy Shot does not gain nearly as much aggro as Slug Shot (even when using silver bullets), and since you most likely want to gain aggro when using Heavy Shot (to turn mob for THF or /THF), it'd be best to sub /WAR for the higher damage with zerk and voke just in case.

Sorry I can't give you any real concrete facts or anything, there's just too few gun RNG's on my server I guess.. heck, I rarely even get to PT with bow/xbow RNG's >_< But all in all, I prefer gun RNG/WAR in xp pt's for the same reasons as the bow/xbow RNG's... esp at 70 when PLD's can hold hate extremely efficiently with the right gear and strategy.

[MS-Clydearrowny]

My advise for exp pt's..
For pt's that include a pld and thf (or /thf post 60), go with /war, if it's a dangerous mob that can one-shot you then go as /nin and have the pld hold off on voke just before the sc, if you still need help getting hate use sharpshot/barrage one fight and cp ammo for extra damage the next fight. (if neither are ready then just hope you pull hate). Personally i stick with /nin for any setup bc i don't trust most thf, but if i knew they were good and the pt asked for /war i would go for it (if i ever take the time to raise war again). For any other setup go with /nin. after 70 racc isn't much of an issue anymore but utsusemi is always nice, most of my pt's 70-75 included atleast one more rng spamming shots and 100%tp sidewinders, it was nice to be able to blink up to 6 hits before :Ni until the mob died or the other rng(s) pulled it off with shots/sidewinder, after 74 i don't bother much with controlling hate in exp pt's, just spam arrows/sidewinders and blink if the pld can't hold off the hate.

for hnm's, always /nin. for a couple of them you need all the racc you can get, especially if you aren't with a brd or if the rdm can't land gravity. also it's nice to not be dead if you pull aggro (with good equipment and shoooting/ws spamming you will get aggro eventually, even with a good tank and some ppl tricking ws's onto the tank).

I've read a lot of posts tonight but i think someone in this thread said something about normal shots probably not doing much dmg on hnm's, except for the turtle hnm's it's not too much worse than exp mobs. high ~70's-low ~100's on Kirin.
-ClydeArrowny-