Is muskatre gun used until hellfire?

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by poweryoga
E-bow does more damage more steadily, more accurate, though o-bow has less delay... E-bow returns much more TP per barrage as well.

How is this possible?

E-bow is 490 delay, arrows are 90 delay. total = 580 delay
O-bow is 432 delay, bolts are 192 delay. total = 624 delay

How can O-bow be faster/build less TP on Barrage? It has a longer delay.

1) You don't exp with demons as primary ammo.
2) You don't exp with darksteel as primary ammo.

Who said anything about "primary ammo"? You said E-bow beats O-bow on skillchain damage. If you're using an O-bow, there is no point in using holy bolts for WS... you won't get added effect anyway. You need to use Darksteel for WS (and you arguably should use them for Barrage if you want best damage output).

[FeralisCallidus]

Heh, long time since I posted here.

Anyway~

E-bow is 490 delay, arrows are 90 delay. total = 580 delay
O-bow is 432 delay, bolts are 192 delay. total = 624 delay

How can O-bow be faster/build less TP on Barrage? It has a longer delay.

TP is based on bow delay. The delay after firing is the arrow delay. Therefor, you will get more TP per shot and barrage with a Eurytos' bow.

You obviously aren't a ranger, spider-dan.

[Anakron]

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
TP is based on bow delay. The delay after firing is the arrow delay. Therefor, you will get more TP per shot and barrage with a Eurytos' bow.

You obviously aren't a ranger, spider-dan.

I'm a RNG and I didn't know that. :sweat:

And...
You obviously can't spell that well, feraliscallidus.

Why demean another's person when it's a debate of ideas?

But at any rate, thank you for the insight.

[poweryoga]

sorry about misreading the post, disregard the thing about ammo type.

Anyways, I do use darksteel bolts for skill chains/barrages, but its hard to keep acids on when you're starting/ending a chain so more often than not, there's no Acids involved. E-bow does much more damage with demon arrows on skill chains regardless, and I've begun to toy around with kaburas now that they're available to me. The game isn't all about math, there's a lot of added factors that affect weapon skill damage.

like feralis said... TP returned is based off weapon delay. (not to mention e-bow is much more accurate in barrages so it returns more TP just because it hits more).

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
Heh, long time since I posted here.

Not nearly long enough. How... coincidental... that your first post (after you mysteriously disappeared for months, immediately following the posts where I exposed you as a coward/liar) is a sad attempt to try to jump on your one chance to prove me wrong.

TP is based on bow delay. The delay after firing is the arrow delay. Therefor, you will get more TP per shot and barrage with a Eurytos' bow.

Really? Is that a fact?

Then why do I gain 13% TP per hit with a Power Crossbow (288 delay) and Sleep Bolt (288 delay), 12% TP with the same xbow and a Crossbow Bolt (192 delay), yet only 7% TP per hit with a 288 delay club?

Here's a helpful tip: any time you, Feralis, have a thought that contradicts something I post, save yourself some dignity and just accept that you never know WTF you are talking about. Period.

You obviously aren't a ranger, spider-dan.

[Narru]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan

Lol I love this image

Originally posted by Spider-Dan

Then why do I gain 13% TP per hit with a Power Crossbow (288 delay) and Sleep Bolt (288 delay), 12% TP with the same xbow and a Crossbow Bolt (192 delay), yet only 7% TP per hit with a 288 delay club?

Hmm, could it be there's a different multiplier for each weapon TYPE? For example, if there's a 900 delay dagger, would it still return around 5% TP per hit? I think the best way to test this is have poweryoga report how much tp he gets per shot with Ebow and then with Obow and see what the results are.

Originally posted by poweryoga
TP returned is based off weapon delay. (not to mention e-bow is much more accurate in barrages so it returns more TP just because it hits more).

/nod

Also just thought of an idea... Could it be those higher level rangers (70+) switch over to Obow because they are of higher level and have access to better ranged acc gear/traits? Maybe poweryoga isn't of the level necessary for the Obow to be better than the Ebow. Just a thought.

[Spider-Dan]

TP gain per hit is somewhere in the range of delay/40-45 (it seems to vary a little by weapon type, as you suggest). IIRC, some of the higher delay daggers will give you 6% TP back already; I'm pretty sure a relic dagger (999 delay) will give you appropriate TP back per hit.

However, the suggestion that ammo is not included in delay for TP calculation purposes is ludicrous. Most crossbows would gain about the same TP per hit as 1H axes. Regardless of the potentially different multiplier, there is no other explanation for why I gain less TP per hit with lower delay ammo (Crossbow Bolt vs. Sleep Bolt).

[FeralisCallidus]

Not nearly long enough. How... coincidental... that your first post (after you mysteriously disappeared for months, immediately following the posts where I exposed you as a coward/liar) is a sad attempt to try to jump on your one chance to prove me wrong.

Thank you, troll.

You exposed me as a coward/liar? You need a brain. That's all I have to say.

Since posting on that thread, i've gotten to level 70, and learned more and more about HNMs, Dynamis and got a better feel for the game's algorithms. What conclusion have I come to as a level 70 ranger? -- I was right all along. Talk all you want, spider dan. I never acted as a coward, I was never a liar, you can dig up as much bullshit as you want. Next time, I won't even give you the satisfaction of a reply.

Really? Is that a fact?

Yes.

That's why a repeating crossbow [ Delay 144ish ] will fire within 1-2 seconds, not within 3-4 [ Bolt delay is usually around 2 seconds ].

Here's a helpful tip: any time you, Feralis, have a thought that contradicts something I post, save yourself some dignity and just accept that you never know WTF you are talking about. Period.

Too bad you're fucking wrong in every single god damn knook and cranny of this 'debate'. This is my last post on here for a while, savor it~ I know it's right.

[poweryoga]

haven't updated my profile in a while.

I'll try it again if I happen to get an exp party today (those are so few and far inbetween now :mad: ) for the TP counters.

but yeah, as you can see, I have the lvl 70 accuracy trait also so I'll test it out.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
You exposed me as a coward/liar? You need a brain. That's all I have to say.

Now you're going to try to pretend that it didn't happen? Unwise move on your part.

Just for those who don't know about Feralis' little exploits, a quick recap:

On another board here, Feralis gets involved in one of the many /NIN vs. /WAR debates. He loudly proclaims that because he is higher level than the others in said debate, they don't know WTF they are talking about. Then some other 70+ RNGs (i.e. higher level than him) enter the thread and flatly contradict him. He "spontaneously" decides that he's finished with that message board.

However, he then comes back to this board, and starts talking sh*t about the 75RNG who embarrassed him in the other thread, behind her back.

Then, when I call him on this cowardly tactic, he "spontaneously" decides to stop posting on this forum... until this thread.

The record speaks for itself.

That's why a repeating crossbow [ Delay 144ish ] will fire within 1-2 seconds, not within 3-4 [ Bolt delay is usually around 2 seconds ].

Nice attempt to change the topic. If the ammo delay is not included in TP calculation, why don't I receive the same TP from a 288 delay crossbow as a 288 delay club? Why do I get less TP when I use lower delay ammo?

How amazingly ironic that you say that I'm "obviously not a ranger." You're supposedly LV70 and you haven't already figured this out? What a f*cking joke.

Too bad you're fucking wrong in every single god damn knook and cranny of this 'debate'. This is my last post on here for a while, savor it~ I know it's right.

Go back to lurking. You have nothing of value to add.

[Spotlesseden]

I'm lvl 72 Rng i don't have E-bow or O-bow ^^ , but i another rng told me E-bow do more damage than O-bow in weapon skill(maybe the +3 str helps?) and better Tp return with barrage. However he think over all O-bow is better.

Still, You guys forget about one important fact of both bows. E-bow is lvl 55 and O-bow is 67. O-bow = unless until 67. If you do many bcnm 50 or 60 E-bow is the best to get the job done. O-bow on another hand can't do any bcnm 50 and 60. If you are not getting E-bow until lvl 70, then i think O-bow is better. If you have gil to get E-bow at lvl 55. You can laugh at other rng for 15 lvls.

[Caspian]

But is the muskateer gun the gun to use until hellfire???

j/k



And I know this sounds really stupid but I could have sworn I read in one of the guides (I use them for a very dumbed down hard copy for some very basic information) that tp is first based on weapon type, then on the actual delay. As you can tell from my bio I'm really not too far into this game so I dont have nearly as much experience running parsers and checking calculations so I cant even begin to tell you (dan) why differing bolts would give you different tp build. I guess we'll have to wait for poweryoga's results.

OT: This probably isn't my place but I dont really care at the moment. If you and feralis have a previous history then leave it there, There is no point in talking so much shit to eachother in a forum where a legitimate topic has been posted. The whole point of these forums is to offer up new ideas and thoughts and come to new conclusions, not flame one another for thinking something different or (god forbid) wrong. People's true nature eventually bleeds through on these boards and those around long enough to see it know who is who. (And as it is sometimes these ppl do know what they're talking about even if tact isnt their forte.) If you have some legitimate ideas or questions to bring up then go ahead. Can we please leave to flaming to private messaging? I'm not pointing any fingers and this pretty much apples to all other threads.
Sorry for all that, but after 3 months of using this board its really starting to make me sick.

[DrSerpico]

I know this type!

Reminds me of lecroulian on rag server:
There is NO PIERCE PENN for bullets. It's bullet ability, no pierce penn on bones okthxbai!

I posted a log of him spouting it, a high lvl rng went down in eldieme and tried bullets on bone and nonbonemobs of similar levels, and bones take about 25% less dmg.

Lecroulian disappears from the scene of "no pierce penn" crusade. Don't worry. They'll come back. They ALWAYS do...

(And to avoid confusion, YES, bullets suffer piercingtype penalty versus bonetype mobs, yes.)

To original poster:
Afaik, yeah, you pretty much go with the muskateer until hellfire.
Alternative is matchlock gun, which ditches the acc (acc = gooooood) for measly dmg, which mainly comes from bullets anyways. The other alternative is to dip into the world of crossbows... Not for me anyways. Happy hunting! ^^