Proof that STR does affect Marksmanship weapons

[Spider-Dan]

It has been stated quite a few times that STR affects Archery damage, but not Marksmanship (xbow/gun) damage; i.e. Marksmanship damage is calculated solely from your Marksmanship skill, the DMG of your weapon+ammo, and your RATK. I have heard and personally repeated this bit of information to people, on this and other forums. On the surface, it seems to make sense; strength would affect how hard you can draw back a bow, but how would it affect pulling a trigger? It wouldn't, so it's perfectly natural that STR doesn't affect xbow/gun damage. Unfortunately, there's one problem with this theory...

...it's totally false.

I recently had a discussion with a RNG on another forum, who insisted that STR does affect marksmanship-based weapons in the same way that it affects archery-based weapons. I asked him for some evidence, and he was nice enough to run a test. (His name is removed, by request.)

With a gun, he attacked a Tabar Beak, with STR+2 bonus:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan...st/noboost.jpg

A hit for 352 dmg, and another for 351 dmg.
He then equipped 13 more points of STR, giving him a total boost of STR+15, and attacked again:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan/strtest/boost.jpg

He hit for 378, and 367 dmg. Here's the full log:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan/strtest/log.jpg

After this test, I thought that since it was well known that RATK increases marksmanship damage, maybe it was the extra RATK, and not the extra STR, that was increasing his damage. I suggested that he try the test again, but instead, try it once with RATK+5, then remove the RATK+5 equipment, add STR+10 equipment, and try it again. In this way, we can be sure that the RATK isn't a factor, since it will be the same in both cases. He was nice enough to comply. Here's the first part, with the RATK+5 boots equipped:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan.../ratkboost.jpg

356 dmg, 351 dmg.
He then removed the boots, and equipped STR+10 equipment:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan...t/strboost.jpg

379 dmg, 368 dmg. Again, here's the full log:

http://www.gamecombos.com/~spiderdan...st/ratklog.jpg

Keep in mind that this test was done by a LV75 RNG against LV37 mobs, so don't pull any meaning that isn't there from it. If you just looked at the numbers in this test, you'd think that STR was ridiculously superior to RATK. That's only true when you're fighting mobs that are far beneath your level.

But, we can see that STR certainly increased his gun damage, and that the incidental added RATK (from the added STR) wasn't a factor in doing so.

Just thought I'd share some info, since the STR/marksmanship issue seems to be a commonly propagated myth (one that I, too, was guilty of spreading).

[greysenn]

Interesting post SD. I always thought it was intersting that Str didn't affect marksmanship damage, being that it affects everything else.

While the premise is good, and I've definetly noticed a difference in damages across the board due to raw str (And believe me, 2 str is waay more than 1 attack.) In this particular case, attacking something thats exceedingly gimp compared to your Rattack is a good way of factoring it out as much as possible, with the STR bonus and weapon damage being the major factors in damage.

The only problem I have with it is the sample size is pretty small. (Even tho I have a feeling the results will be pretty consistant even it if is larger)

[tongyang]

Good to know

Thanks for the post.

[voodoo]

I also find that when attacking any low-level enemies, attack damage (ranged or not) seem to vary quite wildly from attack to attack.

Prehaps this test could be repeated with a crossbow and cheap bolts, and done 100 times with and without STR boosts, then we'd know for sure ^^

Would also be great to test this vs. IT mobs. I'll do this myself when (if -_-) I get Orthinus' bow.

It did seem kinda odd to me how Rock uses taru RSE (STR+3) even though he uses Orthinus' Bow and DS Bolts

[Narru]

Veeeerry interesting...

I'd like this test done (if possible) with both Xbows and Guns to see if there's a difference.

Also done on IT mobs to differentiate it from a super high level hitting a low level. Don't know, maybe there's a different formula used between the two.

This could all come down to a Ranged Attk vs Defense difference with Str vs Vit.

[krycis]

Damnit Spidey! I come here for different stuff than from Allakazham! ^^

Good post, regardless of forum.

[Ru-Kenshin]

lol... Yea, the exact same thread can be found at the Allakhazam forums.

[Duppy]

I would have to disagree I was just recently in party fighting crabs, and as most know their AOE decreases STR. Now I had +10 str and was using a gun and silver bullets. Before I would get the STR down i would hit for 109 a shot. Then after I would hit for 109 with the STR down with my STR only at +2. I also noticed that my berserk was not raising my damage at all. I would hit for 109 with or without berserk. I also i noticed when my mithkabob ran out that berserk would help the dmg so i don't know if there is some cap or someting. I am lvl 56 btw.

[Spider-Dan]

What, exactly, are you disagreeing with?

The results of the test are what they are.

[Duppy]

I disagreed with the concept that STR does effect guns damage. My example showed that it made no diffrence what my STR was, I was doing the same amount with lower STR.

[Narru]

I think what Duppy is seeing is similar to what I experienced with a thief. I believe that there is a hard cap for damage per level. That or a cap of some sort which is far more complicated than I can think of. I remember a JP site that listed some weird formula for max THF damage based on something that was in Japanese so I couldn't translate >< ... but at the end it said something to the extent of "+STR and +Attack will not increase the cap for damage, only bring the average damage closer to the cap." (note this is for a thf, not a rng)

I remember in BCNM Giddeus fights, I would always hit the same exact fuidama damage on the white mandrago ones. Every single time. So I tried doing that without Berserk - same damage every time. Then I tried doing that without Berserk and without meatkabobs - damage was lower and wasn't always the same number. Lastly, I tried with only Beserk and no meatkabobs - damage was the same cap as with both up.

So, in summary (sorry for rambling a bit). I think it can be summed up as:

- There is a hard cap for damage for every level.
- Str and Attack will not raise that hard cap, only bring the average hit closer to the cap.
- Here's the key - Possibly those who tried to do the marksmanship test with STR was ALREADY at the cap, thus they would think that adding or subtracting STR doesn't effect damage.

[Spider-Dan]

Squenix has already stated exactly what STR and ATK do:

http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/...iew.asp?Id=209

STR raises your minimum and maximum damage (damage curve). ATK increases your average damage in the curve. (Fuidama is calculated differently, and is a totally separate comparison; it's based off of DEX and AGI.)

The question was not whether or not STR (in general) raises your minimum and maximum damage, since we know (straight from the horse's mouth) that it does. The question was whether or not Marksmanship-based weapons are affected by STR (it was claimed that they are not). And clearly, they are.

I don't see how one can "disagree" that STR raised the damage. He equipped more STR, and did more damage. This is a fact.