Ranger weakness in PVP

[FeralisCallidus]

Kenki, one problem.

Well, a couple.



Firstly, Eurytos' bow's delay time is shorter than a lot of Scythes (it is like.. 460?). And even stacked with an extra 90 for arrows (550) it is nothing ridiculously large. And Rapid Shot activates more than you think.

Secondly, I doubt that PvP will allow people to cast crap on them before hand. That will give mage-type characters wayyyyyyy too much of an advantage. [ Utusemi ichi takes 4.5 seconds to cast, even, and I think ni takes about 2 seconds ]

Thirdly, Ni does not stack with Ichi last I checked. Ninja just have to coordinate their blinks so that one erases the other when it is about to fail.



Finally, Beastmen have a much different stat-progression than Player-Characters. To say that fighting an Even-Match Beastman is the same as fighting an Even-Match PC is inane.

[ Even-Match means same level, not same strength. ]

They have an ungodly amount of HP as well. Oh, and once you get Sidewinder, solo-ing is a whole new ballgame =)

[Kerberos]

One thing to keep in mind. What they've presented so far implies team based PVP. So, realistically you need to take in account how RNG will work paired with others in that environment. Hopefully it will maybe be more objective based than send the opposing team back to their homepoint and be nuanced enough that even then it won't be reduced to how fast you put people in the ground.

My own speculation is whether there will be damage caps set so BLM or RNG can't one-shot people. Damage caps can be problematic since they probably won't cap healing... I'll let you figure the rest of that out. And, honestly, I'll be surprised if they think to not let people buff before a PVP match. BLM will probably rather sick in PVP and possibly rather unfun to fight even in a group environment (especially if you get multi-blm groups).

The most abusive scenario I can imagine is maybe multiple 60+ RNG/SAM spaming someone. Given the likely prevalence of Blink in some form or another said RNG/SAM will be good for a short burst of killing and then maybe flounder. RNG/NIN like anything else /NIN in pvp will be more surviable, depending on how they balance engagements endurance might be more useful than short term damage potential.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
Feralis equips Machine Gun Crossbow
Feralis equips Sleeping Bolt
Feralis uses Sharpshot/Berserk
Feralis fires Sleeping Bolt [I think there's a sleeping bolt, if not, sleeping arrow. Either way, 100% effective, and I doubt it will miss an even-match tarutaru =P]

Not to get too much into theory fighter, but in the time it takes you to do all of this, he would have easily cast Sleep. If you get put to sleep, you're in for a world of hurt. Aquaveil, Blink, Flare... you wake up with 30% life left and a BLM with intact shadows. You'd be better off firing Eagle Eye at the starting bell, hoping to interrupt whatever he casts first, and work from there.

I think Sleep and Blink/Utsusemi will be the most important spells in PvP, assuming it even allows direct player combat.

[qweezy]

Loxley Bow + Sleep arow, total 210 delay . That'll beat Sleep spell.

WHM will probably become the most popular sub if pvp involves direct combat. A WHM has Banishga(which kills blink/utsusemi in 1 cast), has Blink/Stoneskin/Protect/Shell(alot of protection here), Invis, Erase(removes any status ailment, hint: Gravity), Healing, and teleports.

[FeralisCallidus]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
Not to get too much into theory fighter, but in the time it takes you to do all of this, he would have easily cast Sleep.

Anyway, I checked~ and there is no sleeping bolt. So i'd use the bow that qweezy cited.
It can be easily put into a macro

/equip ranged "Loxley Bow"
/equip ammo "Sleep Arrow"
/ra <t>

woops, too bad it took all of half a second to hit that damn macro button. Pesky things!

And... last I checked, sleep has a higher cast time than 2 seconds? [210delay for sleepy sleepy arrow!]

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah, and last time I checked, the time it takes you to equip change, Berserk, Sharpshot, and fire is more than 2 seconds.

Or did you forget about that part of your little lock-and-load plan?

Not that it matters, anyway. Sleep cast time is 2.50 seconds. So with that 210 delay, you plan to do all of your equip changing and buffing in... 0.4 seconds. Good luck with that.

P.S. If BLM is bringing /RDM with fast cast, you are beaten to the punch, regardless. Sleepy, sleepy arrow... sitting in your inventory as you take a cozy nap. Maybe you can use it when he wakes you up with a sealed Flare.

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, and while we're on the subject:

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
Anyway, I checked~ and there is no sleeping bolt.

[FeralisCallidus]

Firstly, I put the buffs in there just for shits and giggles, they are not even close to a necessity.

And, maybe you don't know this... but the equip change macro requires far less than a half a second to execute O.o


Or don't you know how to use macros?

One macro for Equip change and fire. Won't take but two seconds.

[Spider-Dan]

So what is your plan against BLM/RDM, other than shouting "ZZZzzzz" at them?

Even if there were zero delay in macro equip changes (and there isn't), your delay is still too slow.

P.S. Equip changes take "far less" than half a second? So you can do more than three equip changes in one second? Sure.

[greysenn]

Poison type weapons should tear down shadows presuming they get through. I suspect poison potions could be highly useful in any case, even though you're more than likely not going to be blinking with them on. Heh. There is a million and one ways around any defense or offense, it's just a matter of thinking it out.

Also, does ancient magic penetrate blink?

[FeralisCallidus]

P.S. Equip changes take "far less" than half a second? So you can do more than three equip changes in one second? Sure.

You obviously aren't using them.


Yes, you can.


=\

Even if there were zero delay in macro equip changes (and there isn't), your delay is still too slow.

[Delay to hit macro] -> [ sleep macro ]

[Delay to hit macro ] -> [Equipchange -> ra macro]

Same initial delay. Sleep delay is 2.5 seconds? Ra was showned to be 2.1?
+Rapid Shot from ranger.

So what is your plan against BLM/RDM, other than shouting "ZZZzzzz" at them?

How about garfing down a poison potion or just pray that rapid shot triggers? But, unless fast cast lowers spellcasting time by at least half a second, its a moot point.

[Spider-Dan]

As I recall, Fast Cast trait makes spells cast when "Casting" bar is 60% full. That works out to 1.5 seconds.

[FeralisCallidus]

As you recall, does this always trigger? And is it actually 60%? If it is anything like Rapid Shot i'm not impressed~

[Spider-Dan]

Yes, Fast Cast triggers every time. If I was positive that it's 60%, I would have said so; that's just what I "recall" reading, but I don't play RDM.

I wouldn't make a point of citing an ability that randomly takes effect (like, say, Rapid Shot) as a reason why one job would win. That kind of reasoning is pure desperation and wishful thinking.

[FeralisCallidus]

As a mage i've played (Rdm has dia!), i've noticed even without fastcast that spells usually 'cast' at around 80% anyway. It's just a difference in latency, nothing more.

In other words, saying that it triggers on the meter at 60% visually is simply a 6/8ths thing, rather than a 6/10ths thing.