Ranger weakness in PVP

[Nauge]

I wonder if any ranger has noticed this. When it comes to PvP it seems to me that there are some maneuvers a melee fighter can make to avoid getting hit by a ranger. I don't want to say anymore until someone ask due to the fact that it might be true. But if you know what i'm talking about, could you verify this?:confused:

[obsidian]

I was thinking of this same thing. It would be a bitch to try to hit someone running around you and meleeing.

[Trimpton]

Shadowbind --

Anyways pvp we would be a sealth class and every MMORPG to date stealth classes have always had the advantage.

But what I would like to know - The fact that people DE-TARGET you when you change a piece of equip .. if I could say keep taking off and putting on my ranger necklace so epople cant even hit me let alone target me.

[Nauge]

I'm not exactly sure how shadowbind works. But isn't there a chance that like most ranger WS the higher the target lvl the less chance of succeding? Also wouldn't changing equipment cause more delay?:spin:

[Trimpton]

Shadowbind is an ability(not a ws) that binds the target. It never fails just sometimes has low time on it.

Secondly Changing equipment would have no effect on delay - It would just make everyone who is currently targeting you -de-target you. Like when people dont want you to inspect them they change a piece of equip they disappear and reappear.

[Yuanlung]

Secondly Changing equipment would have no effect on delay - It would just make everyone who is currently targeting you -de-target you. Like when people dont want you to inspect them they change a piece of equip they disappear and reappear.

Yeah... I can just see it. A whole room of people blinking on and off from constant equipment changes while trying to target and hit other binking people in vein. :spin:

[AtraposBLM]

yeah, seriously.

It would be much harder for you to do that as a ranger, as you take more time to ready your attack than other melee's. It also wouldn't work against mages (once they start casting a spell, it'll stay on target even if they no longer have the target targeted. I do it all the time while farming. I cast a ga on something, then switch targets, and my ga still hits the original first). Yet another reason why black mages would be good in PVP

[FeralisCallidus]

Why RNG will own PVP:

Kraken Club + Sidewinder

Hits 2-8times per turn =\

A lv 75 RNG/SAM friend of mine demonstrated this on Spectars in Fei'Yin. They went down in like 15 seconds to two sidewiders- it was insane.

[Kenki]

The fact is that ranger needs to see the target when he use Crtl + D or range attack macro. After that he can switch target or even if the target moves behind him it still hit. After that he will have to face directly at the target again to shoot again.

Blm or spell casters in general only need to target then use spells on the poor. However, spells can be interupted but range attack can not ^^.

Here are some of the points I can think off about ranger.

#1 Copy image of Ninja or Blink spells will be ranger's worst nightmare. If the caster is about the same level as you, your arrow/bullet will miss 90%+ of the time (even barrage, WS and eagle eye shot). The time it takes to recast those is short enough to cancel all of the shots you do.

#2 Stun skill and spell will be the 2nd worst thing a ranger will have to face. Range attack takes time to use and have a small delay after each shot. Any stun skills/spell will cancel it but your small delay after shot is still there so it is possible to stop 2~4 ranger's attack in a row.

#3 That leads to the last vital point of all ranger. Endurance in a battle! Defensive technique of a ranger is.... well that doesn't exist. You can use shadow bind but it won't last long enough. Remember your low level ranger solo? Your devastating dmg beats the monster before it kills you. That doesn't work so well when you face a heavy armor with high HP and strong attacks like WAR or MNK.

Conclusion, since rangers in PvP are on their own. Rng/Nin will be much more effective than Rng/War or Rng/Sam simply because they can take hits better and can avoid some of the Stun tech. Still the key to all ranger is to do as much damage as possible in the 1st 10sec in the battle. If the out come is not so obvious (ie. reduce 1/2 target's HP) after that..... then you're cooked.

[FeralisCallidus]

Kenki, if fighting another player that is the same level as the me (Ranger) is ANYTHING like my fighting an IT mob, he's boned. Honestly, blink or utsusemi will go down in 6 seconds (3 dagger swipes), then I can just smack on barrage (there goes half of his HP, at least, since at my level normal HP for a melee/semi-caster type [i.e. rdm or pld] is around 1k. Barrage normally does about 550dmg, even to IT HIGH-DEFENSE crabs. So, then I have about 75 TP to play around with. Throw in some normal combat for a little bit, and bring on the sidewinder.

Or, if I feel like it, I can just gain like 40 TP, then hit them with barrage > sidewinder.

That combinations alone i've seen do 1800DMG to IT mobs. Against an even-match Player-Character with significantly lower defense and a fraction of the HP? He's going down if he gets hit.


But, I guess the question is...

>>Do you feel lucky, Punk?<<


Oh, and a sidenote, Shadowbind lasts a VERY long time against Even-Matches. At least long enough for about 5 arrows, to my recollection.

[AtraposBLM]

Feralis readies barrage.
Atrapos starts casting stun.
Atrapos casts stun.
Feralis is stunned.
Atrapos uses elemental seal.
Atrapos starts casting sleep (you begin ranged attack)
Atrapos casts sleep.
Feralis is asleep.
Atrapos begins casting Burst.
Atrapos casts Burst.
Feralis takes 975 damage.
Atrapos begins casting Sleep II.
Feralis's Ranged Attack was absorbed by Atrapos's shadow!
Atrapos casts Sleep II.
Feralis is asleep.
Atrapos begins casting Burst.
Atrapos casts Burst.
Feralis takes 980 damage.
Feralis was defeated by Atrapos.

And Rgn/Nin won't work against any mage either - Dia rips apart shadow copies faster than you'd imagine.

[Deodorant]

I imagine any non-mage vs mage would be highly dependant on whether the mage is allowed/able to cast spells beforehand. Also, doesn't ranged attacks eat through ninja utsusemi? I'm fairly certain it does; don't know if the same holds true for whm blink ...

[greysenn]

Dia also prevents you from sleeping him. A few hits from that barrage probably would've slipped though as well.

In any case, it's stupid to even speculate on this before it's implimented, nobody has any idea of what changes are going to happen

[FeralisCallidus]

Assuming nothing is casted before hand...


Feralis equips Machine Gun Crossbow
Feralis equips Sleeping Bolt
Feralis uses Sharpshot/Berserk
Feralis fires Sleeping Bolt [I think there's a sleeping bolt, if not, sleeping arrow. Either way, 100% effective, and I doubt it will miss an even-match tarutaru =P]
Feralis equips Eurytos' Bow
Feralis equips Kabura Arrow
Feralis uses Barrage
--> [Atrapos wakes up, but... Kabura Arrow 100% effect: Silence. Atrapos is silenced.]
Feralis uses Shadowbind
Feralis uses Ranged Attack [ Silence ]
Feralis uses Ranged Attack [ Silence ]
Feralis uses Ranged Attack [ Silence ]
--> Repeat until happy, or just...
Feralis readies Sidewinder.

==GAME OVER==


Reason for the post: Any job has ways of besting another =P

[Kenki]

I really think blink will affect rangers the most. Even if you say you can cancel it with 3 daggers strike. Dagger -> melee and melee means trouble most of the time if the other side is anything other than thief (even thief with double + trible attack can prove to be difficult to beat).

By the time you can pull out 3 daggers hit to cancel Copy Image (3 of them not being parried, countered or dodged) you should have taken some hit and have enough delay for the other side to use whatever tricks they can think of (blind, paralyze, sleep, stun...).. also at level 37 ninja gets Ni which stack with Ichi.... A good war/nin or xxx/nin might cause trouble to you.

Also, since you are even match to them and you don;t have nive armor and having HP of a mage.... Their attacks will hit about 100+ per hit if theyuse 2H (ie. spears....) 8~10 clean hits and you are cooked. While yours will go around 200+ per hit againts something with 700+HP (assuming barrage works in reducing the massive 1k+ HP) might only takes 2~3 hits. Sound promising but remember that others have lower delay than you are.

The best way to test to see if you can beat another class is to try to fight some decent challenge beastmen solo! Then move to even matches to see if they really does work. I really doubt that we can beat even matches solo. I know that beastmen have a bit more HP than galka and slightly high in STR but that doesn't really matter since you might have to fight some really tough guy with high level equipments. A perfect battle ground to "train" these will be the beatsmen places (beadeaux, davoi....) those mob can go up to lv 60+ and have most of the class you need.

My experiment at lv 48 rng/war, I barely beat a decent War type Orc. Shadowbind didn't last long enough, TP build up too slow even if barrage got a clean hit (682 dmg), damage taking was too critical, mob HP was higher than expected (1.3k+). My HP was reduced to 50% right after I got enough TP to shoot a clean Flaming Arrow. Double attack was massive and the Stun attack canceled my range attack (which made me even slower!). Though I did managed to reduce the mosnter HP by 60% by the time Shadowbinds wears off.