RNG/THF vs RNG/WAR, once again

[Spider-Dan]

I've heard many of the opinions on why RNG/THF is allegedly not good. There's a couple of points that I have not seen addressed, though.

1)THF has higher AGI
If I remember correctly, THF has the second-highest AGI stat growth of any class. While WAR does have more STR, wouldn't a RNG/THF simply be able to go for some +STR equipment, if they didn't care about maxing agility? Is there really a difference between a RNG/WAR buying +AGI equip and a RNG/THF buying +STR equip?

2)"More damage" is not the only point
Yes, RNG's main asset is probably the crazy damage, but if you look at one of the other benefits of the job (Wide Scan for hunting specific mobs/NM), that dovetails perfectly with THF's Treasure Finder bonuses.

I would think that having both the ability to track mobs that drop rares, and the ability to increase their chance of dropping rares, would be useful. Yet it's never mentioned in comparisons.

Ultimately, it seems like everyone in the game should have either a WAR sub if they are melee, or a WHM sub if they are a mage (with the exception of a few SAM subs). Is the game so poorly designed that those are the only real options? I'd like to think otherwise, but every time a discussion comes up, the only thing brought up is how /WAR does more damage with WS.

[Dashavi]

Excelent points both rarely addressed. I'm with you on this, but then I've always been pro thf sub.

[voodoo]

thf is only a good sub when soloing to farm gil/hunt NMs.
it has little-to-no worth when subbed in a PT.

war is not the only viable sub for rng. as stated in this post, there are 3 viable subs for rng;
war, nin and sam.
war for high damage, nin for high accuracy (dual archers knives) + blink, and sam for TP gain.

[Spider-Dan]

As far as I can tell, NIN has exactly two advantages has over THF:

1) the ability to equip 2 archer knives (AGI+1, rng acc+10) instead of only one
2) blink

NIN has no job abilities and useless job traits outside of dual wield.

For this, you trade two evasion bonuses, treasure hunter, and sneak/trick attack. Even as a RNG, if at some point you need to transfer hate from someone to a tank, I would think a fuidama Dancing Edge would get most mobs' attention. (not saying that this is a primary reason to pick /THF, but it's one more thing that /NIN can't do)

So essentially, you're trading all of that for the ability to equip one add'l archer knife, and one ninjitsu spell (as if RNG doesn't have enough stuff to blow money on).

I don't see this as being "indisputably" better, to the point where THF is considered a "useless" sub. I'd really like to have this discussion again if/when Square raises the level cap high enough for a /THF to get Hide...

[entiZ]

Okay if you were to make the cookie cutter Ranger using a Mithra you'd have this for stats:

Lv HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHR

RNG/THF
70 1027 0 53 77 57 83 58 54 46

RNG/NIN
70 1027 0 54 75 58 83 57 54 47

RNG/WAR
70 1063 0 57 74 57 82 55 55 48

RNG/SAM
70 1063 0 54 74 58 80 57 57 49

Source: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/Status_calculator.htm

The only HUGE difference we have here is the STR advantage the WAR has over the THF. Not a big difference really, and should not be a deciding factor over what sub job you use..

So what really determines what makes one sub job a better choice than the other is the skills you get.

THF
+Gil Find (Good to have)
+Treasure Hunter (Great to have)
+Evade (Sounds good but debateble)
+Sneak Attack (Can't use with a bow, worthless with Archer Knife)
+Trick Attack (Could be useful I'm not sure on this one)
+Flee (just a great skill IMO)

NIN
+Two Archer Knives (AGI+1, rng acc+10 IS a HUGE HUGE Plus here)
+Blink (Better than evade IMO)

WAR
+Berserk (more dmg)
+Defender (Def boost)
+Physical Defense UP (Def boost)

SAM
+Store TP (Rangers WS does BIG DMG)
+Heart Eye (Next attack dodged)
+Silent Concentration (Rangers WS does BIG DMG!)

Okay now that the info is in front of us... What is the Main role of the Ranger? DAMAGE DEALER. altho those THF skills could be very useful in certain situations it does not out weight the benefits you get from the other classes. Hope that helps.

EDIT: THF shouldn't be said to be a BAD choice it's just you do have better options out there. I bet most Rangers do work up THF up for farming purposes. But when its time to get serious and do some dmg they choose one of the three jobs already mentioned.

[Spider-Dan]

I agree that the main point of RNG is to make big numbers appear on the screen, and RNG is very good at it.

However, the main idea that I'm trying to get across is that RNG/THF still does excellent damage, and adds other valuable assets as well.

Now, if we are talking about the usual hypothetical super-high-level party, that already has the best possible equipment, and every rare item, and millions of gil in the bank, and the only thing that could possibly interest them is the RNG doing the highest damage he is capable of, then sure, go RNG/WAR. (Though I have to wonder, shouldn't this hypothetical super-high-level party already be at lv70, making exp meaningless? But I digress...)

But, in the real world, if you have any other side goal in your party (say, picking up items to help you get enough gil to buy your next piece of HQ EQ), then I think RNG/THF brings more to the table (all around) than the other combos.

It just seems to me like a lot of people are relegating RNG/THF to farming only, when (for most of the leveling of RNG) it is a perfectly legitimate and practical combo.

[Aaramis]

Yes, RNG's main job is damage dealer, but you have to weight the good with the bad.
Where /WAR provides maximum damage potential, you won't have the best accuracy.
/NIN, on the other hand, won't have the max. damage potential that WAR has, but will offer maximum accuracy (twin archer's knives).
/THF will offer the above abilities (gil finder, treasure hunter, flee) but the combat abilities (trick / sneak attack) it offers are mostly melee oriented, so they don't have as much of an impact on RNG as some other class abilities have.

Notice the two differences are due to job abilities? (berserk vs. dual wield). Stat differences, in the endgame, mean very little. Your equipment will easily overcome them. The only huge difference will be in hps, based on your race, but you shouldn't be tanking, or anywhere near AE'ing creatures anyways. Chances are you'll be eating Mithka Meatkabobs too (for the +str and +atk).

Then again, go with whatever works for you. Some are going RNG/RDM, and I've even seen RNG/WHM.
*shrug*

[entiZ]

Play what you want, you can make ANYTHING work really but most ppl want to discuss end game jobs and combonations.

Everything else is just a wash.

I plan on doing RNG/ everything under the sun to see how things work But end game i'll probably come back to one of the typical combos.

[voodoo]

well, firstly, rng/thf is still a good combo, it's just not as advantagous as the 'standard' 3.

>NIN has no job abilities and useless job traits
>outside of dual wield.

very true!
but prehaps you under-estimate the effect range acc+10 actually has.
same goes for blink, many a time blink will save your ass - and even if it doesn't save your ass, it will save your PT precious MP.

>For this, you trade two evasion bonuses, treasure hunter,
>and sneak/trick attack.

the two evasion bonuses won't be much help to a rng - ranger has a very low stat in evade.
treasure hunter is great, but it's massively over-estimated in its effect. and in a level up PT, i'm sure your members would rather have more EXP than a couple of extra drops.
i haven't played this combo myself so i'm just speculating, but i'm almost certain you'll get more from an arrow hit, than from a sneak attack...

>Even as a RNG, if at some point you need to
>transfer hate from someone to a tank

this is not rng's job, and chances are if your PT is; rng, tank, another melee - there's almost no chance of hate being on that melee for any period of time, it'll either be on you or the tank.
i also think a sneak+trick from a rng would do very poor damage, and therefore create little hate for the tank


another thing not taken into account here is the ability to avoid/decrease damage taken on you, while hate is too much.
with war you have defender to reduce damage, with nin you have blink, and sam you have heart-eye (though this only avoids 1 attack, i'm not sure how effective it is, but a rng/sam is there to kill the mob as fast as possible anyway).
rng/thf has no abilities to avoid or decrease hits.


however i have to urge you to do whatever you want in this game, and have the most fun possible - and if rng/thf makes you happy, i wish you all the luck in the world :D rng/thf will still do great.
i'm just pointing out the advantages other jobs have over rng/thf.

[Negorath]

Omg! RNG/SMN rox u all!

[tjroihenu]

best class to make a rng/thf?

[viper2k75]

????? Ranger / Monk ????????

[shoyo]

Sorry, i got one question

If you go for rng/thf, can you use sneak/trick for your range attack?

thanks

[Sent]

On the ranger guide sticky post it says Sneak Attack wont work with ranged attacks. I dont know about trick attack though. Im sure some uber Ranger here knows.

-Sent

[Thylteev]

It does not work with ranged attacks.