NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

[Romyro]

Can some tell me exactly how Pup’s are soloing NMs using the D/A trick? (The more detail the better).

Hear me out first though.
I understand how D/A works. I use it all the time in parties, campaign battles, farming...etc. My auto is setup so I can swap between all 3 heads w/o re/unequipping. But I don’t understand how people are soloing larger NMs with it.

Example:
I saw on Wiki that someone said Despot is easily solo’d by a Pup/war with Hermes sandals (which I have). I tried practicing on regular groundskeepers and I can get them to maybe 70% before things go bad and I have to forcefully lose aggro. I kite it around the lake near the portal to get to the next island. Most of the time I either run too fast and end up losing claim and the keeper depops. I try and slow down a little but then I take hits.

30 seconds for provoke seems to be hurting more than anything while trying to keep claim/hate. I’ve kited Despot for 30-60 minutes numerous times on Bst but that’s using /nin and charm (15 seconds).
Most of the macros on Pup and Bst blink me to avoid animation.

Anyone out there that can give me some advice/tips? I’ve also wanted to try the ZNM Iriz Ima solo on pup, but I feel like I might run into the same issue. I haven’t seem any youtube videos either…

I’ve got all attachments as well (should certain ones be needed).


Other misc info
I generally go with…(iirc, this setup allows me to switch all 3 heads freely)

Mana booster
Loudspeaker II
Tranquilizer
Condenser
Ice Maker
Damage Gauge
Tactical Processor (no sure if this one helps)
Economizer
Accelerator II
Mana Jammer II
Armor Plate II
Shock Absorber or Turbo Charger (can’t remember which)

Merits
Auto Magic skill 5/5
Ventrioquies 1/5
Optimization 3/5

(working on Role Reversal and finishing Optimization )

[Callisto]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

I'm definitely no PUP, but one minor piece of advice I can give is I know for sure that one of my LS mates found a lot more success using /SCH to solo keepers than any other setup, since with a Dark Staff and some enfeebling/macc pieces he could reliably sleep them in between automaton nukes.

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Hmmm.
Well…I’m definitely no SCH (or /SCH for that matter), and I have seem PUPs use that method but on normal mobs only. Would /SCH be somewhat able to reliably land sleep on sleepable NMs? I’m assuming Despot can’t be slept hence why someone put PUP/WAR. I don’t have wiki at work, but can Despot be slept? I always though RDMs alternated gravity/bind and keeping DoTs on him.

DNC (31) and SCH (1) are my next 2 jobs to lvl to 37. Though I’m gimped (75PUP/31DNC), /DNC had been pretty useful for working on Ranger frame’s skill. I haven’t tried /SCH but I’m guessing it will have its perks as well.

[Vevau]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

The reason for Grav/bind DoT is that DoTs wake it up, I'm still trying to claim that doll but don't think its immune to sleep from memory (wiki agrees)

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

The reason for Grav/bind DoT is that DoTs wake it up,

well right. thats what i'm saying. i was assuming he couldnt be slept so insead of mages using the sleep/nuke method, they use grav/bind/DoT method.

Anyway…I guess I was just wondering how the PUP/WAR did it with ease as wiki states. But then again, the info on wiki could be false I suppose.

[Elwynn]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Can some tell me exactly how Pup’s are soloing NMs using the D/A trick? (The more detail the better).

Not all of us know what trick you're referring to. A link to a ffxiclopedia page showing a strat using it would help.

The only one I know is using it to depop mobs, such as in Golden Salvage where Flashbulb takes the hate, then you Deactivate before the auto takes damage. The mob then depops (or in that case, a Mimic returns to chest form). This works the same way for BST and SMN, where you can recall and resummon a pet quickly, except that the PUP has to make sure the automaton takes no damage.

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

I know what ‘assuming’ does but…

I’m assuming that anyone who has a decently leveled PUP knows the D/A tactic (deactivate/activate). And if you don’t know what that is…then I don’t think your going to be able to help me much with my question.

Also, I’ve never done golden salvage but I have read that page before. It’s not what I’m asking about. In GS you’re trying to avoid being detected. On a NM you’re trying to keep hate/claim on you while damaging your target.

If no pup that reads these posts have done these NMs, then i'm going to keep trying different methods till i find one that works. I just looking to see if someone knows a workable method and could help me understand it better.

---------- Post added at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 AM ----------

Not all of us know what trick you're referring to. A link to a ffxiclopedia page showing a strat using it would help

Sorry Elwynn, I think I read your post wrong ><. I might have gotten a little defensive.

If you’re asking for a link, I don’t have one. The one you mention for GS is pretty similar yet…different. It’s the same in terms of D/A your puppet before it takes damage, BUT in GS you can be stationary and you have all the time in the world to position your self for a safe D/A. And when you do deploy your pet and hit D/A, there is no hate on anyone so the mob (or chest in GS) either depops or is semi-stunned for a few seconds and goes back to its walking path. On top of that...it relies on Flash bulb to help avoid hits if you do need that extra couple seconds.

If you’re trying to fight a mob, you need to be mobile, you need to do damage and you don’t want to lose aggro or claim. If you’re running from mobs I don’t think Flashbulb is the best idea. Yes it will cause your target to miss, but Blizzard IV isn’t instant and using flashbulb can take precious seconds away from casting. And taking time away from casting means the mob is that much farther away from the puppet and potentially running out of casting range…thus having to wait the ~25 seconds to fire off another spell.

Going back to Despot…the reason I think wiki had /WAR was so you could provoke Despot, shoot off a Blizzard IV, D/A so your new puppet would have no hate but you do.

I dunno, maybe I just need more practice on keepers and eventually it will become second nature.

[ShepardG]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Elwynn, the trick he's refering to is actually better refered to as ADD: Activate, Deploy, Deactivate.

Pup's don't transfer emnity to Mobs unless they physically strike a mob. This works with claiming, in such a way that the mob never actually turns "Red" to you.
For instance: I can walk up to an Aern in Sea, Buff my pup up with ice/water maneuvers, and dump a Tier IV nuke into it and then instantly De-activate, and do like 20% dmg without any hate generated towards myself. The pup no-longer is there and as long as he was at 100% HP, you'll be able to re-activate instantly. You can't get drops this way ^^, unless you, yourself take some actions on the Aern.

Now what the OP is trying to do is similar but I don't think he's taking into account the fact that the puppet can run and nuke at the same time. I have yet to try this as my pup merits are 2/5 magic skill 1/5 optimazation. But I'm going to attempt this method when i get him full.

PUP/SCH or RDM or NIN. Claim with some form of DOT or a Big tier IV from my pup. Begin Kiting.
Activate
Water,10 sec, Ice, 10 sec, Ice, 10 sec, Ice (keep kiting)
Deploy and watch for Despot to turn to the Pup
Quickly De-activate
Keep up distance, and DoT's.
Rinse/Repeat

I would say it will probably take you a couple of times, but I wouldn't worry about that cross frame setup to much. I've just taken to setting my shit for max performance right before I deploy. You do it enough times you'll be able to get your pup's attachments setup fairly quickly.

[Celeal]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

My pup is at low level... but if the most you got from /WAR is provoke, then why not /BST with Charm (shorter /recast timer, and I am not sure would Charm bind the NM or not)... unless the there is an issue with hate balance between your PUP and your Automation.

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Your right Shep, ADD not D/A, my bad. sorry for the confusion. I have taken the puppet running and casting into account. Honestly I think its one of the coolest things since sliced bread lol.

The more I think about it, the more I think my macros are off. Instead of having a separate macro for Deactive, Activate, Retrieve and Deploy…I should try and merge them into 1 or 2. I normally keep Activate, Deploy and Deactivate separate for those situations where I (or someone else) need a fast Cure V. I should probably make a whole new set for situations like this

My pup is at low level... but if the most you got from /WAR is provoke, then why not /BST with Charm (15 seconds timer, and I am not sure would Charm bind the NM or not)... unless the there is an issue with hate balance between your PUP and your Automation.

Um…wow… I don’t understand why that just blew over my head… Not sure why I never though of that since I’ve done this on Bst…I know charm for /bst works well if your bst is 75 (which mine is), but not sure if bind would proc the same. But with Hermes sandals I can gain some ground. I need to think outside the box more ><.

I’ll try that, thanks guys!

I would say it will probably take you a couple of times, but I wouldn't worry about that cross frame setup to much. I've just taken to setting my shit for max performance right before I deploy. You do it enough times you'll be able to get your pup's attachments setup fairly quickly.

I’ve though about that…but how else could I maximize in a ADD situation like this?

There’s really no need for most of the Dark attachments since your getting 1 spell off then refilling your MP.
Probably just need Damage Guage for light to pop a quick cure.
I have all the BLM ones such as Tranq, Ice Maker, Mana booster, Condenser & Loudspeaker II
I removed Tactical Processer and replaced with Mana Channeler (I think that’s the name, the one that increase casting time & increase MAG Atk). The increase in casting time wont matter since im ADD-ing.
The rest are honestly just fillers that I do to avoid damage (+evasion, +defense and Stone skin).

Oddly enough, that setup I think is pretty solid yet allows all three heads to be used.

If I was going BLM or WHM only, my darks and lights would change but if I’m constantly ADD-ing, there not needed. I dunno, what do you think i can add/remove?

[ShepardG]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Well as long as you have the main nuke ones, I guess, what problems are you having, cause your pup should be doing pretty decent damage.

Is it just that your getting hit too much to ADD, or Maneuver? your safest bet would be /nin then, and poison it with nin magic. /shrug.

?

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

My pup is doing decent damage. So that’s not the problem.

<minirant> It drives me insane how some people look down on pup. Even being only half merited my blm frame is starting to put up some pretty impressive numbers </minirant>

Hermes Sandals might be the issue; I’m getting too far ahead from keepers and lose aggro. Might try without.
When I slow down for them to catch up, I sometimes take a hit, so I need to work on that as well.

30 secs for provoke is about 5-10 seconds too long imo, so maybe charm or poison would be better. /Rdm or any mage would be baaaad news for Despot because there’s pots everywhere, but might work for other NMs. Can you get any Ni enfeebs if your /nin? Ichi’s might take too long.

Also…one thing I just thought of today. I’m ADD-ing wrong. When I hit deactivate, I need to wait for the timer to refresh THEN activate. I’ve been activating too soon causing the puppet to fall too far behind when kiting, especially with sandals. I’ve been doing it backwards…DDA >< (Deploy, Deactivate, Activate).

[Romyro]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

Ok, I went up there solo for a very short time last night as Pup/Bst. I was definitely able to kite a keeper longer than I could on /War. So Charm > Voke imo. I still had some minor issues with depoping but I was only up there for 10 minutes so I didn’t have time to tweek my macros. But it already seems like a better sub choice.

Bind did proc about 1/2 of the time which is very nice! I went up there later with 2 other pups and a Bst and we were able to pop despot. The Bst kited while the 3 pups nuked. Despot went down very fast. The Bst was able bind Despot about 1/4 or even 1/3 of the time. Bind did not last long but every second counts.

Also, it seems like keepers lose aggro very easily while despot doesn’t.

And on a final note, though you get shadows with /nin…I’m still thinking /bst is the better choice. Should things go bad for your puppet, you can quickly swap to Bst macros and use birds (Thanks for the reminder Celeal)

[ShepardG]

Re: NM Soloing, please help me out ; ;

That's pretty cool, I hit 31 on sch last night, so I think i'm gonna head to sea tonight as 75pup/31sch and see how it goes, i'm geared pretty good from rdm as my main, so I think i shouldn't have to much of a problem sleep nuking some stuff.

If it works out I might see about despot. i'll let ya know