PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

[Zanar4]

hello, i started using PUP recently, im actually level 11 PUP/WAR. I have stormwalker with some pretty good attachments. Soling anything higher than EM can be a tough job, and everyone is telling me that i should SUB DNC. However i really dont feel like registering Wings of the Goddess and i also dont feel like leveling another job. Am i really that SCREWED in soloing if i decide to stay with PUP/WAR? or does it eventually get better when one gets the hang of it? Please help me, because if the only way to solo efficiently with PUP is with a DNC sub, then im going to be pretty dissapointed. Also, how do you equip a turban onto your automaton?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

Plenty of PUPs got to 75 just fine on soloing with /WAR,

HOWEVER (note the big emphasis), /DNC is a very appealing incentive to inviting a PUP to an EXP PT. Healing pet, healing subjob that takes PUPs... shall we say... meager damage and put it to a altruistic use.

Also, you'll solo far, far more efficiently if you have a DNC sub for PUP. They work really, really well together.

You're going to find that if you really want to do well at any job in this game, that skipping subjobs just because you "don't feel like it" is going to get you some dirty looks from your fellow players. A good PUP will have a decent range of subs to choose from, just as any other good player in any job would.

Also not having expansions registered when there are several viable EXP camps to be found within WotG zones across many levels, not to mention great solo camp options, is a drag to your fellow players who PT with you. It really is a drag when everyone but ONE person in the PT can go to a camp because that one guy didn't quest access or register an expansion. It is a royal pain in the ass.

[Dracovivi]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

Personally I /mnk would be a better suited sub, as it gains you martial arts I (which PUP don't obtain till 25). Unless your Auto has a problem with living, then /war for 'voke would be more viable sub for soloing. /DNC will do you no good till 30+ as that is when you'll get your first curing waltz. Drain samba would be hardly enough to keep you alive, and your Auto's melee damage won't allow it the same en-drain effect.

[Sabaron]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

Early on, /MNK is a good subjob, but after PUP gets natural Martial Arts it becomes useless. /DNC doesn't really come into its own until you get your first waltz. Provoke is not necessary for PUP. Just gear up some +Enmity and make sure you don't have your automaton using Flash or Provoke. If you don't use the DD frames you shouldn't need to provoke to keep hate. The Ranger frame might have a tendency to turn mobs and die--it's not the best choice for a solo frame.

Harlequin, Stormwalker/Soulsoother, and Valoredge are probably the better solo candidates unless you're using one of those nuking "tricks" to kill mobs without aggroing them (did they fix that yet?).

Spiritreaver and Sharpshot can post significant damage numbers and aren't very durable. These are probably best left for purely DD applications like party XP. Soulsoother can be a very useful candidate for a PUP main healer, but you'll lose the biggest chunk of your damage. The nice thing about PUP/DNC is that you can change your automaton from WHM to BLM to RNG depending on situation, so you can always be set up as a back-up healer, but if your mage starts running low on MP, you can further boost your cure contribution by switching to WHMaton. Sharpshot makes for an excellent addition to Colibri parties later on as long as you control it.

Now if only SE would add automaton /equip commands so you could switch frames more quickly...

[Malacite]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

/DNC doesn't really come into its own until you get your first waltz.

Drain Samba still beats the hell out of Provoke and +10 defense.

[Sabaron]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

Drain Samba still beats the hell out of Provoke and +10 defense.

Yeah, but it doesn't beat the following notable powers of other subjobs:

1. Blue Mage: Cocoon, Pollen
2. White Mage: Poisona, Cure, Protect
3. Ranger: +10 Accuracy
4. Monk: Martial Arts I

[Flanteus]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

you are too lazy to register your WotG CD-key..and i'm dying here to get one... so I can level /DNC for my pup ...

and the turban for a quest..at level 40/50 soulsoother/spiritraver

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

HOWEVER(note the big emphasis), /DNC is a very appealing incentive to inviting a PUP to an EXP PT. Healing pet, healing subjob that takes PUPs... shall we say... meager damage and put it to a altruistic use.

I rarely have the pleasure of partying with PUPs, but twice now I've seen PUPs out damage well set up DDs in Garliage Citadel in the Lv.30's range. (I always count Automaton damage, of course.)

PUP/DNC is terrific if party needs that /DNC, but /MNK -> /WAR is perfectly fine.

* * *

Looking at /sea at the moment; I sure wish for more DDs and fewer healers and DNCs. x_x;

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

I rarely have the pleasure of partying with PUPs, but twice now I've seen PUPs out damage well set up DDs in Garliage Citadel in the Lv.30's range. (I always count Automaton damage, of course.)

Anyone can be an a great DD at low levels if they really try, its that 55+ area where DDs jump ahead or fall behind. Most of the DD PUPs I've been around I'd only consider average at best and far better off as healers. I've never turned down a PT with PUP, but the ones that have impressed me more are the ones that use PUP to its obvious intent and the intent the PUP community seems content to stubbornly fight - support.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

I've never had a DD PUP past Lv.40--which is to say I had the grand total of one PUP after Garliage Citadel--so can't say much about how they may or may not perform as DD.

Still, I'm not convinced PUP is only for support role; the design looks to be far more flexible than that.

[Jensen]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

thats because its not just a support its really how well the pup focases on their puppets attachments i have seen a 66 pups automaton out DD well geared rngs
the problem with most pups is they dont infact focas on thier autos and try to boost their own which isnt the best root because at best it will still be below average my pup is only 52 but i know ive tried my best to focas most of my attenion on all aspects of the automaton instead of myself and i can say ive been invted more for the rngmaton then anything else. but back to the topic at hand lol yes /DNC is very much worth it im not quite in the same boat as you since DNC is my main so its well past sub lvl though

[Nuriko]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

I rarely have the pleasure of partying with PUPs, but twice now I've seen PUPs out damage well set up DDs in Garliage Citadel in the Lv.30's range. (I always count Automaton damage, of course.)

For this specific purpose, I think it's better not to count the automaton damage ... no matter the PUP's sub or what they use TP for, the automaton will still be doing (relatively) the same thing.

[Celeal]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

For this specific purpose, I think it's better not to count the automaton damage ... no matter the PUP's sub or what they use TP for, the automaton will still be doing (relatively) the same thing.

Even a Quickstep or Box Step from PUP/DNC may made some impact on the frontline performance, including the automation's melee DoT.

Since PUP's automation cannot wear DD gear like Hauby, cannot eat food like sushi or meat, or does not have Job Ability/Trait like Berserk, Double Attack, cannot receive buffs from BRD/COR/SMN/etc, using PUP/DNC's Quicksteps or Box Step is another source for raising the Automation's DD.

I strongly suggest the OP to at least see other *good* PUP/DNC in action first before making the conclusion.

[Silent Howler]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

Even a Quickstep or Box Step from PUP/DNC may made some impact on the frontline performance, including the automation's melee DoT.

This is one thing that has come to mind when I look at PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC. While PUP isn't maximizing its own damage capabilities when using /DNC, Quickstep and Box Step weaken the mob and improves the damage capabilities of your other front line jobs. You would most likely still see more overall DoT with PUP/WAR, but PUP/DNC isn't strictly for healing duties.

I have slowly come to realize this. When I leveled Puppetmaster I was somewhere in the 20s when Dancer came out. I started using PUP/DNC right away and have been doing it ever since. It is largely based on play style. I don't think I have ever used anything other than soulsoother in parties past level 40. But if you are in a party with a Red Mage and a White Mage and Ninja tank, you don't really need to come as PUP/DNC. So I have decided to start leveling Warrior at some point to use when situations strictly call for DD assistance.

And for the OP, I strongly recommend PUP/DNC for soloing. /DNC has saved my life so many times. It's a wonderful sub job.

[Messia]

Re: PUP/WAR vs PUP/DNC

I went /MNK until level 25 when PUP gets its own martial arts job trait. I then went /WAR for a while, until WoTG was released. I must say that with /DNC it is ALOT easier to solo and leads to less deaths.