Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

[postman]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Was it hard to get the BLM frame and head or costly? you get it at same place as others?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Was it hard to get the BLM frame and head or costly? you get it at same place as others?

This page should have links to heads, frames, attachments, and the condition for obtaining them, etc., directly or indirectly: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster

[Celeal]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Last night I formed a level 67 ~ 69 party with a PUP/DNC in it. The party setup:

lvl 68 PLD/WAR, lvl 67 DRG/SAM, lvl 67 WAR/SAM (me), lvl 69 DNC/NIN, lvl 68 SCH/WHM, lvl 67 PUP/DNC

The camp is at Mamook Ja staging point, killing Sea Puks.

Note: Low IT mobs, variation of traditional party structure.

The PUP was the last member who joined the group. I explicitly asked the PUP to fill-in support role with his healer automation in the party, so there is no confusion. I requested the PUP to use either PUP/WHM or PUP/DNC, he selected PUP/DNC.

My conclusion: PUP/DNC teams up with a mage/WHM is complete.

Observation of Party member play style:

The PLD/WAR is a traditional defensive tank: full AF and DEF+ food. His own MP recovery is excellent --- 3 MP per tick during battle, and 4 MP per tick in between battle (swap in V. Cloak). I don't examine others gear, so I assume he is using Parade Gorget + Sanction Refresh.

The DRG/SAM was using sushi, Scorpion Harness and a mix of AF (I don't examine others gear), major damage output for the party as expected.

The DNC/NIN had a Maat Hat and Joy-toy. When he leveled up to 70 during the party, he switch to those equipment. He seems doing a great job for DD + support. (I don't know the full potential of DNC at this moment yet)

SCH/WHM --- This is my first party with SCH. He was main healing most of the time. At the last few chains he start to nuke and heal.

WAR/SAM (me) I was puller, and basically Full Break at beginning + later Raging Rush. I was using attack food most of time.

PUP/DNC --- healer pet, very impressive: never runs out of MP, and /DNC bridge the gap when the pet casting timer is not up. He tried to test using the BLM head for a few battles, but doesn't work out.

Everyone in that party leveled up except me

P.S. > The DVS parser I was using does not work. Since I haven't use parser for months, the parser version I had is outdated (Ver 1.7.2). So no parser data on this party T_T. Does anyone has any suggestion of parser that I can use?

[xiozen]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Awesome post regarding you party w/ PUP/DNC.

So far I've leveled from 64 to 68 just doing Campaign battles. As soon as I hit 70 I'll switch to using the O-Hat, Boxer's Mantle and Hades Sainti... we can also pick up Drain Samba II and Healing Waltz, in addition to Resist Slow III... so I can't wait to test out those items/abilities to see what the impact will be on my performance.

As a PUP/DNC I can say we can make a significant difference in a party, depending on set-up of course.

I'll probably start making parties for experience when I hit 70... I wanna wait til I can equip the items previously mentioned...since they're just sitting in my Moghouse collecting dust.

I'll keep you posted as I continue levelin'.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

I started using pup/dnc as soon as I hit level 30 and I have been enjoying it very much. Even before level 30 Drain Samba is a nice little bonus, but I would still go with mnk until 25 for Martial Arts. Considering the fact that I'm a mithra, I think I can get more out of going pup/dnc than say pup/war and trying to dish out as much damage as possible. The way I think of it, I let my automaton be the DD while I fight for TP (doing more damage in the process) to heal party members. It certainly makes me feel more useful to the party and not just being the automaton's puppet.

[Sabaron]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

I started using pup/dnc as soon as I hit level 30 and I have been enjoying it very much. Even before level 30 Drain Samba is a nice little bonus, but I would still go with mnk until 25 for Martial Arts. Considering the fact that I'm a mithra, I think I can get more out of going pup/dnc than say pup/war and trying to dish out as much damage as possible. The way I think of it, I let my automaton be the DD while I fight for TP (doing more damage in the process) to heal party members. It certainly makes me feel more useful to the party and not just being the automaton's puppet.

Well, the real point of PUP/DNC at high level is to be The Healer. The Soulsoother is capable of handling the general white mage tasks while the master concerns him/herself with "tweaking" the results. Basically, you end up in the same place you were before... Following where your automaton leads. In the end, Puppetmaster is, more so than any other pet job, all about the pet. Like puppeteers in real life, your existence is in the background and the puppet is the star of the show. Such is the nature of PUP--if you don't like it, you've probably chosen the wrong job.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

The reason why I didn't mention Soulsoother is because I haven't reached the level to obtain it yet. At this point I can't do anything with my automaton other than making it a DD, so this is a little "moment to shine" for the actually puppetmaster and sets me apart from my automaton. Not saying I want to be the star of the show, it's just nice having a purpose of my own.

[Callisto]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Just some notes as to the effectiveness of /DNC higher up, I don't know any pups, but my LS has had one of our SAMs start coming /DNC recently in our low-man events like Nyzul Isle Assault(Obviously SAM gets alot more TP, especially considering that he's using Soboro, but the rest is still the same).

The Flourishes really don't seem to see any diminished effectiveness when used as a sub, he actually was a tad gimped(I think 30 DNC) and landed the Gravity one on Adamatoise twice, ironically enough one of coming after I got resisted on it as RDM.

Everything else seems to be at full strength, in terms of soloing I would almost lean towards using the BLM head, then using your TP to cure yourself with Waltzes, but PUP/DNC can easily main heal a merit party with the WHM head.

[Celeal]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

PUP/DNC can main heal successfully.

The remain issue is, will the PUP willing to do it?

[Callisto]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

I've actually partied with several PUPs that have main healed my parties recently, and I think it comes down to the same thinking I have when I main heal on RDM:

Either I can do something else, solo, go farm Diorites/Aern Organs, do a testing/epeen party with a few lax LS members, or Campaign and earn a few thousand an hour, or sometimes I can suck it up, strap on the Apollo's staff, and make 20k/HR TP burning and crank a few merits out while being bored to tears.

Which I go with pretty much just depends on my mood at the moment. I'd assume most PUPs do the same, they can solo well enough and grind it out, or they can try to hit the jackpot with a good party and get triple the XP in the same amount of time.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

PUP/DNC can main heal successfully.

The remain issue is, will the PUP willing to do it?

See back when WHM was our only option for main healing effectively, I would hesitate to fill in the roll. Now that DNC is available, I am entirely willing to main heal for a party and would gladly do so. But not all PUP's are like me.

[Lmnop]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

PUP/DNC can main heal successfully.

The remain issue is, will the PUP willing to do it?

Moreover: will anyone invite them? Convincing PUPs to doesn't seem terribly hard -- if you're a PUP, you're already willing to try the path less traveled, no?

[Celeal]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

If a PUP is looking for a party, it is hard to expect what the PUP is exactly going to offer --- unless you have to "conduct an interview" or explicitly request the role before you invite the PUP. But that, requires the party leaders to have extended knowledge of how to play a PUP, in which, is not always the case.

Just like those "DD-only" BLU, a lot of PUP are "DD-only" too. My last 2 PUP in the parties I joined are exactly "DD-only" PUP.

Note: PUP with the proper automation can deal a respectable damage.

[Sabaron]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

If a PUP is looking for a party, it is hard to expect what the PUP is exactly going to offer --- unless you have to "conduct an interview" or explicitly request the role before you invite the PUP. But that, requires the party leaders to have extended knowledge of how to play a PUP, in which, is not always the case.

Just like those "DD-only" BLU, a lot of PUP are "DD-only" too. My last 2 PUP in the parties I joined are exactly "DD-only" PUP.

Note: PUP with the proper automation can deal a respectable damage.

Well, you shouldn't really have to conduct and interview. There are two easy ways to advertise it. The first is obvious, put it as your sub by default. The second is to use /seacom.

I know I would advertise the crap out of it if I had it as a way to get into higher chain XP groups.

[xiozen]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

If a PUP is looking for a party, it is hard to expect what the PUP is exactly going to offer --- unless you have to "conduct an interview" or explicitly request the role before you invite the PUP. But that, requires the party leaders to have extended knowledge of how to play a PUP, in which, is not always the case.

Just like those "DD-only" BLU, a lot of PUP are "DD-only" too. My last 2 PUP in the parties I joined are exactly "DD-only" PUP.

Note: PUP with the proper automation can deal a respectable damage.

Thank you for this observation...

I recently partied as a lvl 70 PUP/DNC with a party in Bibiki Bay. The party set-up was: PLD, BLU, BRD, RDM, me, WAR. I observed that the RDM and BRD were both /WHM.. so as far as I was concerned, the PLD had decent support healing and -na's. We fought Catapuloues (basically high lvl Dhamels) and 2nd-tier Goblins. Since the healing was covered, I used BLM puppet (it's magic skill was a little low, since I hadn't used it all that much--but it was using Stone III, by the time we finished, it was using Water III). The resists to Stone III were very noticeable--it did decent dmg without me using Icemaker, generally around 180 or so, when it resisted the nuke only did about 20-30 dmg. However, when the puppet skilled up it's magic high enough to start using Water III, dmg went primarily unresisted and was doing between 260-300 per nuke. I didn't notice any resists with Water III though. My weaponskill (Howling Fist did between 200 - 300) after my puppet got Water III it was the puppet that ended the fight more often than not. But the fights went FAST. Warrior did impressive dmg but I think I was close behind that, (no parser was available), between the dmg I was doing, my weaponskills, and the puppet's nukes...

The party noticed how much dmg me and the puppet was doing because I was getting hasted on a regular basis and my puppet pulled hate (just a couple of times) with the Water III nukes. I used Icemaker as often as I could, making the nukes hit well over 300 most times... only once I risked putting up 3 Ice Manuevers to see how much dmg a Water III nuke would do and it was 599.

I gained a ton of experience in that party... I think about 20k, cause now I'm almost lvl 71.

------Soloing with Lvl 70PUP/DNC------

I love soloing with PUP/DNC during Campaign battles... my gear:

Head: Optical Hat
Neck: Chilvarious Chain
Ammo: Oils +2
Body: PUP AF body
Hands: PUP AF Hands
Legs: PUP AF legs (until 71, when I'll wear the Prince's Slops)
Feet: PUP AF feet
Rings: Rajas and Ulthalam's Ring
Back: Boxer's Mantle
Waist: Potent Belt
Earring: Fenrir's Earring and Velocity Earring
Weapon: Hades Sainti

First and foremost, I can keep hate without really all that much effort thanks to the Hades Sainti. Then the Drain Samba II, drains 20-30 hpts per hit. Soloing the Quadav NMs during Campaign battles in Rolandberry Fields (S) is not all that dangerous, as long as they're not the Hyper NM versions.

Using the PUP WHM head did a great job of keeping me healed and landing enfeebles... not one enfeeble resisted. I'm loving this job so much. I also enjoy impressing experience parties, cause people have no idea what the PUP is capable of.

I implore all PUP's out there, if you haven't tried /dnc job... give it a shot...it's incredible.

Good luck to everyone. W00t... i'm 5k tnl... almost 71^.^