Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

[xiozen]

ok.. I stopped leveling pup at 64, mainly because of the many reasons we've all discussed and hashed over and over as issues with the job... since the stat updates for the automatons was released, I've noticed significant boosts in many areas--this has helped significantly... however, now that DNC is out... I'm now looking at going back to the PUP and finishing it up to 75, with DNC as a viable subjob.... here are some of the benefits:

PUP already get these job traits:

Job Traits
Level Name
10 Resist Slow
20 Evasion Bonus
25 Martial Arts
40 Evasion Bonus II
50 Martial Arts II
50 Resist Slow II
60 Evasion Bonus III
70 Resist Slow III
75 Martial Arts III
75 (Merit) Fine-Tuning
75 (Merit) Optimization

Dancer Job Traits
Level Name
15 Evasion Bonus
20 Resist Slow
25 Subtle Blow
30 Accuracy Bonus

Level Sambas
05 Drain Samba
25 Aspir Samba

Level Steps
20 Quickstep (lowers target’s evasion – so ya hit more often)
30 Box Step (lowers target’s defense)

Level Flourishes I
20 Animated Flourish (Provoke)
30 Desperate Flourish (Weighs down target)

35 Drain Samba II

Level Waltzes
15 Curing Waltz
25 Divine Waltz
30 Curing Waltz II
35 Healing Waltz

Level Jigs
25 Spectral Jig (Sneak and Invisible -- Wo_OT)

This is of couse dependent upon a few things such as how effective these dances will be as a subjob... but looking at the strengths, I think they completely outweigh any of the drawbacks. (Not to mention our Automaton as full str and magic!!!)

I'm excited... dancer is lvl 10 so far... 27 levels to go to test this out... if anyone can provide any feedback as a high lvl pup/dnc... please feel free.

Thx guys!! and good huntin'

[Malacite]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Idk about PUP/DNC, but just a few days ago I started a DNC/PUP trend. A bunch of people on my server saw me kicking ass with Serenade and it looks like it caught on o. O

[Xhaztol]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Hell, I'm starting to consider RDM/DNC because I'm so tired of sitting in the back healing. I'd still have all the essentials of a RDM coupled with healing dances and drains and...well, I'd just need to wear some DEX gear and I THINK it could work I can dream...

[Sabaron]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Idk about PUP/DNC, but just a few days ago I started a DNC/PUP trend. A bunch of people on my server saw me kicking ass with Serenade and it looks like it caught on o. O

<20 I sub PUP a lot. The maton is really nice for low-level soloing--screw everyone else. 90% of the parties I get 10-20 suck worse than soloing anyway.

Hell, I'm starting to consider RDM/DNC because I'm so tired of sitting in the back healing. I'd still have all the essentials of a RDM coupled with healing dances and drains and...well, I'd just need to wear some DEX gear and I THINK it could work I can dream...

I think that move will just make you less popular. You'll just be up front, healing instead. It doesn't matter where you position yourself. You'll still be casting so many spells (in XP) that it's almost pointless to melee. There are, of course, special case exceptions, but generally speaking--you have too much work to do to melee and be a RDM in XP at the same time.

[Aamalthea]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

[Insert 2 gil from a lowbie here]

I plan to be a Pup/Dancer. Mostly because I love Dancer and don't want to give it up, and I love Puppetmaster and don't want to give it up, plus even at low levels (I'm 13 Pup and 17 Dancer atm) it's fun. I can only imagine it gets even better, when I solo my Dancer, I'm a Pup/Dnc and I have even less downtime, plus I get to have my puppet with me.

I know not that much about all the facts and the numbers and all that mess, I just know it's fun.

[xiozen]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Well, my dancer is lvl 32 (half-way to lvl 33 atm). 4 1/2 levels of experience remain before I can retire my Dancer job and go Pup/Dnc permanently. I'm excited. Dancer has some awesome abilities and to be able to use those on my puppetmaster just makes me giddy!!!!

[postman]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Yeah i think PUP/DNC would be a great choice just think of the gil you could save sneak/invising yourself being able to voke at the critcal moment true it may not be as powerfull as the real one but still at one point it will save your puppet. having DNC as are sub greatly would increase the odds of pup getting picked to join groups so what if we have to heal a little or use a little tp are WS miss alot anyway because of our poor HTH skill so why not become what we are a support class SE is never going to give use or boost up are autos to the point where its as good as other jobs we would be to strong.

if anything pup/dnc tho it may not be "the best" for letting us do the most damage but i belive it will help us get to 75 faster.

or PVP pop out the auto and sneak/invis yourself and let your auto beat the player down wile he looks for you. lol

[Icemage]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

I think this is one of the best new combinations of jobs to come out of Wings of the Goddess (right behind WHM/SCH). Puppetmaster TP attacks aren't so amazing that you'll miss using them, in favor of actually doing something useful with the TP, and they certainly do hit harder than Dancers even if they miss a bit more.


Icemage

[postman]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

The only other sub I would consider would be corair because are pet IS are job even a little boost is great for the little guy. /war is good in all and the attacks are a bit stronger but man fighting IT++ you as the player cant hit anything so why waste it when you could be giving help to your automation thats more then 50% your damage.

thats my 2 gil.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

If you're subbing /DNC to save some gil on oils and powders, that's pretty sad. That shit is sooooo cheap these days Mages and Dancers can pretend these abilities are gonna save them gil in all situations, but at the end of the day, Oils, Powders and Tonko are more effective because of the cost.

I've found Spectral Jig to be every bit as flakey as Camoflage. its a nice pinch ablitiy, but that's it. If you sub DNC for saving money on something like a CoP mission, I'll just find someone better prepared for the mission as opposed to a walking liability.

PUP/DNC has a lot of good reasons behind it, the only visible weaknesses being lack of protective magic and Stona. You also won't be able to remove BRD debuffs from allies, but those aren't common EXP mobs anyway.

/DNC has good applications for a lot of melee-based jobs, though I still find the idea of RDM/DNC the fastest way to get you kicked from a PT.

[postman]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

I havent played FFXI in a year so i havent a clue what power/oil costs. im hoping to come back soon with WBC.

[Neomage]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

PUP already get these job traits:
Job Traits
Level Name
10 Resist Slow
20 Evasion Bonus
25 Martial Arts
40 Evasion Bonus II
50 Martial Arts II
50 Resist Slow II
60 Evasion Bonus III
70 Resist Slow III
75 Martial Arts III
75 (Merit) Fine-Tuning
75 (Merit) Optimization
Dancer Job Traits
Level Name
15 Evasion Bonus
20 Resist Slow
25 Subtle Blow
30 Accuracy Bonus

Note that the bolded abilities will not stack. If you have two Evasion Bonus Is, it only counts, as Evasion Bonus I.

That said, since your 60+ already anyway, the Subtle Blow and Accuracy Bonus will help your melee (how much though, I wonder?) but the various dances will help you play a better role in a party, as support jobs are always needed over pure DDs.

[xiozen]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

Now that I have lvl 37 dnc and have been able to successfully play pup/dnc I can make the following observations:

I love it!
\
Granted its not as powerful as subbing war or sam in terms of providing greater dmg over time...however, (talking specifically from the master's perspective) but adding the dmg from the Auto and the Master, it's awesome. I can't think of a better combination... i love it!

I highly suggest leveling dnc to 37 to sub this all the way to 75... it's pure gold, for a variety of reasons.

^_^

[Sabaron]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

...PUP/DNC has a lot of good reasons behind it, the only visible weaknesses being lack of protective magic and Stona. You also won't be able to remove BRD debuffs from allies, but those aren't common EXP mobs anyway....

The best way to main heal as PUP is to use the White Turban head with Stormwalker. The maton can do almost anything a regular WHM can and they don't even need to monitor the chat log to use -na spells. PUP/DNC with WHM automaton is much better than PUP/WHM with WHM automaton. PUP is swimming in TP and their MP pool is very small. PUP gets much more mileage out of meleeing and using TP to heal than sitting in the back and resting (/healing makes the maton sit too).

Also, Stona? There's like one XP mob that uses Petrify and it's Lizards in the Den of Rancor which I've never seen anyone but GS doing... Can't White Turban use Stona? It's only 39th level and it casts other spells of higher level than that. I haven't seen a complete spell list for White Turban but I've seen confirmation of -na use. Also, only WHM main can naturally cast Stona (unless, as I mentioned, Soulsoother can whip it out at higher levels). I'm also wondering if SS doesn't use Erase...

Depending on how high the -na spells rise, PUP/DNC with Soulsoother could be a very competent main healer save for the lack of Raise which can be used by a back-liner (like your BRD) or even a Paladin tank post 50. If you have a /WHM backliner, they can easily toss out a nice Protectra/Shellra for you.

I think PUP/DNC w/ Soulsoother makes a very good bid for a main healer at 40+ (when the PUP has the option to take Soulsoother). It definitely gives SMN/WHM and BLU/WHM a run for their money with the self-refreshing maton (with convert) and TP > HP conversion. It can't obviously beat WHM for certain applications, but WHM is the healer job.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Seriously considering PUP/DNC...

He must be confused on something and meant something else besides Stona I believe. You can't get Stona by subbing WHM, it's a level 39 ability. Most likely meant Stoneskin, which IS a loss from not subbing WHM.

Either way, in solo cases the status cures are a moot point because unless it's something that incapacitates you, Divine Waltz is available(and even then if it incapacitates you then WHM sub would be pointless.) In a party unless the PUP is specifically being asked to come as a main/backup healer then WHM sub is pointless and the topic on the PUP's subjob isn't even in the question. For normal party play /DNC is the way to go, or even solo play. I've seen several PUP/DNC's on Hades soloing with great success.