Anyone else getting annoyed?

[Gilge]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

i think what people focus on when they think pup is bad is they look at the damage that only the pup is doing. ive only ptied w/ about 3 or 4 puppetmasters through the dunes (i think), but from what i remembered, the damage the automaton and the player did combined was above average. combine that with pulling the mob w/ the automaton, and i think you've got a better DD than people give it credit for.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

i think what people focus on when they think pup is bad is they look at the damage that only the pup is doing. ive only ptied w/ about 3 or 4 puppetmasters through the dunes (i think), but from what i remembered, the damage the automaton and the player did combined was above average. combine that with pulling the mob w/ the automaton, and i think you've got a better DD than people give it credit for.

I wish everyone could see it the way you and I see it. I totally agree with you, because this sounds like me. I worked hard on building up my puppet and he is very strong and when you put us together, we can take on tough mobs solo. In parties, I make my automaton use Flash all the time and the mob hardly gets a chance to hit anyone when it's blind like that. I sub monk and I am pretty strong with my H2H. I even managed to pull of some SCs with my Automaton, which I thought was freaking amazing when the first time that happened. People take us for granted just because of our label. Many Puppetmasters are dedicated players, and peple need to open their eyes to that fact.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

In parties, I make my automaton use Flash all the time and the mob hardly gets a chance to hit anyone when it's blind like that.

Nice! You wouldn't believe how many times I've asked for concrete reasons why I should invite a PUP instead of someone else. This is the first time anyone has given me one instead of the usual "we're not so bad!"

At what level can the PUP start doing this? How often can Flash be used? I may invite a PUP if I have a NIN or WAR tank, once the PUP's have Flash.

I sub monk and I am pretty strong with my H2H.

No offense, but I find this part hard to believe; no support job can drastically improve a PUP's Hand to Hand skill--heck, as far as I know, no support job can improve that at all. How about subbing RNG for accuracy instead? Or do you lose important WS that way?

I even managed to pull of some SCs with my Automaton

Hmm. So I should leave PUP out of SC's? That way, they can SC with automatons at their own pace?

[Raydeus]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

i think what people focus on when they think pup is bad is they look at the damage that only the pup is doing. ive only ptied w/ about 3 or 4 puppetmasters through the dunes (i think), but from what i remembered, the damage the automaton and the player did combined was above average. combine that with pulling the mob w/ the automaton, and i think you've got a better DD than people give it credit for.

No offense, but I find this part hard to believe; no support job can drastically improve a PUP's Hand to Hand skill--heck, as far as I know, no support job can improve that at all. How about subbing RNG for accuracy instead? Or do you lose important WS that way?

Itazura (Ifrit's mischief? ) they are talking about the V. Dunes levels, up to lvl 30ish PUP is a good DD from what I've been told. The problems start after lvl 40, that's when PUP goes downhill, specially with a C rating on H2H skill.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

Nice! You wouldn't believe how many times I've asked for concrete reasons why I should invite a PUP instead of someone else. This is the first time anyone has given me one instead of the usual "we're not so bad!"

At what level can the PUP start doing this? How often can Flash be used? I may invite a PUP if I have a NIN or WAR tank, once the PUP's have Flash.




No offense, but I find this part hard to believe; no support job can drastically improve a PUP's Hand to Hand skill--heck, as far as I know, no support job can improve that at all. How about subbing RNG for accuracy instead? Or do you lose important WS that way?




Hmm. So I should leave PUP out of SC's? That way, they can SC with automatons at their own pace?

Actually a PUP with the right attachment can use Flash starting from level 1 lol. There is also an attachment for Stoneskin, but I don't really use it because I don't believe having the puppet tank is the best idea on earth (probably because I use the mage frame but idk). I think this is actually better than having a mage cast flash, because this flash costs 0 mp on the automatons part and it can be used over and over right after the affect wears off. If the PUP is using light maneuver, than the puppet would use it more often. I don't see why all PUPs don't have flash... Well actually maybe it's because of the price but I don't remember it being too high.

Maybe I do decent damage because of my up-to-date gear or something, idk but I was doing more damage than the SAMs, sometimes even without the help of my puppet. Though my puppet really does help a lot because it hits the mobs and it has the ever-lasting enthunder.

Regarding skillchains, it depends on the attachment. I have this tp efficient attachment, and this helps my puppet to detect when and which weapon skill to use when contributing to a chain. Maybe ask the PUP if he has the Store TP attachment. Store TP sounds like it just saves it up, but the description is that it increases TP efficiency. I think that is pretty cool.

Double Post Edited:

Itazura (Ifrit's mischief? ) they are talking about the V. Dunes levels, up to lvl 30ish PUP is a good DD from what I've been told. The problems start after lvl 40, that's when PUP goes downhill, specially with a C rating on H2H skill.

This may be, but remember that basically there is nothing for PUP after level 25 anyway... At level 25 a PUP gains the job trait "Martial Arts", and then there is nothing after that. Of course this will change, but you may be right about the fact that as of now they are very decent DDs up until level 30. That's why I do not understand why people rush to level the job, as I am taking my time and studying about it because I know the job isn't complete yet.

[Raydeus]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

This may be, but remember that basically there is nothing for PUP after level 25 anyway... At level 25 a PUP gains the job trait "Martial Arts", and then there is nothing after that. Of course this will change, but you may be right about the fact that as of now they are very decent DDs up until level 30. That's why I do not understand why people rush to level the job, as I am taking my time and studying about it because I know the job isn't complete yet.

Yep I think the same, until AF and high level Automaton upgrades are aviable there is no point on rushing or even level the job beyond level 40. That's why I'm not leveling any of the new jobs right now, I want to wait and see what are they gonna change or add to jobs before leveling them.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

Yep I think the same, until AF and high level Automaton upgrades are aviable there is no point on rushing or even level the job beyond level 40. That's why I'm not leveling any of the new jobs right now, I want to wait and see what are they gonna change or add to jobs before leveling them.

Well it doesn't necesarily mean you shouldn't test them out a little as the way they are so you see the ups and downs and its potentials. I want to try and take PUP up to level 75 when it's complete, so I'm just trying to get all the basics down, because at least all 3 jobs have that much. Although PUP DOES lack with the H2H combat skills.

Just a thought, but considering the armor and the H2H skill that a pup uses, MAYBE SE built the PUP so it can stand back and control the automaton to do it's bidding, much like the summoner. I know it sounds weird now, because the automaton certainly is not like the avatars and lacks in power for it to solo mobs without the help of it's master. Also the big lack of control that the PUP has over it's automaton with the exception of using Maneuvers, but maybe this will all change in the next update.

Or maybe I'm wrong and a PUP was meant for pure DDing with the help of a pet, like the DRG or BST. Either way I wouldn't mind, but I would like to be up on the front lines attacking a bit myself so idk. We'll see how it all plays out.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

I've really had no issues with having PUPs join my PTs. Problem PUP has is people expected this, much like DRG, to be a pure melee class and they try to play it as such. It's not, it can be diiferent things.

As far as my experience playing with PUPs, I've enjoyed them a lot more and had more effective PTs than the majority of BLUs I've had to stomach PTing with. When I've been out tanking, PUPs have usually done very well in helping me keep the mob in-place and doing good damage.

I don't really have a problem with the damage BLU does, but I do take issue with the rate at which they spam spells (most of which are spammed ineffectively, like Bludgeon). Blue spells should be more like COR's Phantom Rolls, where there's a signifigant recasts, preventing spam. I'd say like a 20-30 second recast at least, because I can't be the only person out there that's groaned when you're tanking and a BLU is invited to PT with you.

Personally, I think COR is the only balanced job introduced from the expansion. It doesnt get to do as much damage as a ranger, but its sufficent, worthwhile damage. It doesn't get forced into subbing mage like BRD does and has a lot of useful buffs as opposed to a large list of buffs that generally aren't used. My only quibble with CORs is most of the one's I've PTed with after 40 don't use the Card Shots effectively to enhance debuffs, instead, they use it to DD.

[Raydeus]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

Well it doesn't necesarily mean you shouldn't test them out a little as the way they are so you see the ups and downs and its potentials.

I'm way too busy trying to get PLD to 70ish to even consider leveling a new job heheh, so I'll wait for now.

[pearlsea]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

i think what people focus on when they think pup is bad is they look at the damage that only the pup is doing. ive only ptied w/ about 3 or 4 puppetmasters through the dunes (i think), but from what i remembered, the damage the automaton and the player did combined was above average. combine that with pulling the mob w/ the automaton, and i think you've got a better DD than people give it credit for.

>.>, its like bst, they dont care about your overal DoT but just what you yourself can do. I got an invite around 40 (after hours of lfp), the main person i was comparing myself to was the war/nin, i was bst/war. I was hitting for 5-15 less then her per hit but you need to add in my pet damage which was about the same as what i was doing with a little less acc (I had acc gear and sole sushi), and while the war/nin did do 2 times the WS damage , if the tiger used razor fangs then we were still equal. I know its not parced and just from my observations but im sure i would of noticed if i was a gimp DD or whatever.

[Gilge]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

for me, its ok that pup's DD skill decreases after lvl 30, because imo, there's nothing for a pup after lvl 30 (when you get your last frame). with no af yet, and no G5 for them, I really have no motivation to lvl pup after maybe 35 or so.

no af is probably hte reason i've been stickin mostly to the old jobs. i've just got nothing to shoot for.

[Drive]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

the puppetmaster or the puppet doesn't get subtle blow do they? only the pup if you go /mnk or /nin right?

[Daryn2889]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

I've really had no issues with having PUPs join my PTs. Problem PUP has is people expected this, much like DRG, to be a pure melee class and they try to play it as such. It's not, it can be diiferent things.

As far as my experience playing with PUPs, I've enjoyed them a lot more and had more effective PTs than the majority of BLUs I've had to stomach PTing with. When I've been out tanking, PUPs have usually done very well in helping me keep the mob in-place and doing good damage.

I don't really have a problem with the damage BLU does, but I do take issue with the rate at which they spam spells (most of which are spammed ineffectively, like Bludgeon). Blue spells should be more like COR's Phantom Rolls, where there's a signifigant recasts, preventing spam. I'd say like a 20-30 second recast at least, because I can't be the only person out there that's groaned when you're tanking and a BLU is invited to PT with you.

Personally, I think COR is the only balanced job introduced from the expansion. It doesnt get to do as much damage as a ranger, but its sufficent, worthwhile damage. It doesn't get forced into subbing mage like BRD does and has a lot of useful buffs as opposed to a large list of buffs that generally aren't used. My only quibble with CORs is most of the one's I've PTed with after 40 don't use the Card Shots effectively to enhance debuffs, instead, they use it to DD.

I'm glad to hear that you have no problems partying with us PUPs. Some of us take the job seriously, while others just do it to get to level 75 asap or some other stupid reason. I have fun with the job and every party I get into, I don't disappoint one bit. They actually get disappointed when I have to leave because I contribute quite a bit @_@

Double Post Edited:

the puppetmaster or the puppet doesn't get subtle blow do they? only the pup if you go /mnk or /nin right?

The puppetmaster only has 3 job traits, for now at least. They are Resist Slow (level 10) Evasion Bonus (Level 20) and Martial Arts (25). You are right, since I am subbing monk, I do have Subtle Blow, along with Martial Arts and almost Counter.

[mytoy]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

i use stoneskin attachment w/ pup all the time its nice to protect it from the occaisonal mob attack while fighing and protection againmsst AOE, havent got flashbulb for flash yet but im trying to get to nashmau to buy it from npc, its cheaper thatn AH

i think what people focus on when they think pup is bad is they look at the damage that only the pup is doing. ive only ptied w/ about 3 or 4 puppetmasters through the dunes (i think), but from what i remembered, the damage the automaton and the player did combined was above average. combine that with pulling the mob w/ the automaton, and i think you've got a better DD than people give it credit for.

THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT!
I spend hours waiting for party invite, i go to websites and look at pup forums and all i see is:
PUP SUX PUP GIMPED LOLPUP

and crap like that its annoying pup is not weak, pup ROX in ballista, pup could pwn pretty much anything in ballista cept for other pet jobs

[zagex]

Re: Anyone else getting annoyed?

So PUP is the new Drg in terms of "lol" job?