Hello Fellow PLD

[Mageta]

Hello all, I have been reading up on this site for a few weeks now. (Since my return to FFXI). I have noticed the push towards a more DD style of tanking from the old ways (Vit and Def). I have a few questions that I would love some information/guidance on if someone wouldn't mind.

First off, I'm a Galka PLD on sylph lvl 58 almost 59. I played heavily when the game first came out in america and I drifted to wow and played FFXI off and on. I stopped playing about 2 years ago all together and recently came back to XI.

Current Gear:
T. M. Espadaon +1 - Trying to sell Gluttony sword due to its large depreciation in value
T.K. Shield
Happy Egg
Gallant Coronet
Parade Gorget
Insomnia Earring
Drone Earring- Spike Earring
RK Chainmail - Saving up for Haube
Gallant GLoves
Unyielding Ring
Ether Ring
High Breath Mantle
Life Belt
Gallant Breeches
Gallant Leggings


If one were to read all the postings under PLD and take into account all the gear for macro's I think you would have a full inventory of 80+ items that would be juggled through a fight.

Given I do have some Gil to spend.

Q1: At Current level is there any new gear that is a must have for pld that is a large upgrade worth getting? Anything in the near future?

Q2: During a rotation of mobs usually I start with Mob:1 Provoke>Flash> Sentinel> Cure III
Mob:2 Provoke>Flash> Shield Bash> Cure III Mob:X Provoke> Flash> Berserk> WS> Defender> Cure III (if TP is accessible) Hopefully WS available more often to use but not necessarily with birds Rinse/ Repeat
Mob x is anytime WS is available.
Is there a better way to space out abilities to allow for better threat gain over time?

Sorry If I sound slightly newbish I am basically relearning PLD.

Any opinions are welcome and I appreciate the help. Thanks!

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Welcome back to FFXI.

Q1: At Current level is there any new gear that is a must have for pld that is a large upgrade worth getting? Anything in the near future?

• You should have the Elder Armor set for MP (hands and body anyway) for more starting MP; after the first Flash, switch out the body. After one Cure III, switch out the hands. As you use more MP, switch out more of the MP gear like rings and such. (I only recommend this kind of obsessive MP tweaking for Galka, by the way.)
• The "Iron Ram Hauberk" set
• Iron Ram Shield is pretty decent, though I'm not sure if that's a high priority item or not. (Basic rule: Size 3 shield, and pick one with as much defense as you can, unless there are alternatives with interesting stats you're after.)
• Shield Torque and Shield Earring when on the defensive--those are keepers for as long as you have PLD.
• Accuracy gear; Woodsman Ring, Peacock Charm (or Chivalrous Chain), etc.
• Jelly Ring (esp. nice for Colibri)
• Hospitaler Earring: 5% more HP cured is 5% more enmity for same amount of MP.

Unless you're at the high end for a camp (e.g. Lv.60 at a Lv.54~60 camp), I don't recommend starting a party with full DD gear. If at the low end, definitely turtle up and see how things go, then pick a food and adjust gear setup accordingly.

Q2: During a rotation of mobs usually I start with Mob:1 Provoke>Flash> Sentinel> Cure III
Mob:2 Provoke>Flash> Shield Bash> Cure III Mob:X Provoke> Flash> Berserk> WS> Defender> Cure III (if TP is accessible) Hopefully WS available more often to use but not necessarily with birds Rinse/ Repeat
Is there a better way to space out abilities to allow for better threat gain over time?

The word to use is 'enmity', FYI. (You'll want the Enmity Table by Kaeko from his Kanican blog, sooner rather than later.)

There isn't a one size fits all routine, but, generally speaking, to get the most efficient use out of Sentinel, you'll want to use big enmity spikes while it's up, since it doubles the VE (volatile enmity) of any action during that time. (I'm not quite clear on the effect on CE.)

So, if you really want to use Sentinel efficiently at the start of a fight: Banish (as soon as the target is in range) > Sentinel > Flash > Provoke > Cure III (on whoever is missing 200+ HP) or IV (if someone is missing 400+ HP).

That said, if you have a DRK who likes to stack Last Resort with Souleater, may want to save both Sentinel and Cover for that. (If he stacks Berserk on top of that and fire off a WS, just let him die.)

The choice of using Shield Bash and Rampart as a regular part of the routine to build enmity or saving them for specific situations is also up to you; figure out which would benefit the current party the most.

A Cure III for 90 HP creates exactly the same amount of enmity as a Cure II for 90 HP--try to get the healers to leave you 200 HP below max at all times. Don't forget the Hospitaler Earring for your Cure macros.

* * *

Some of the PLD "bad habits" I often see in pickup parties:
- Not using Cover.
- Not using Flash.
- Not using Provoke.
- Using only Cure IV, even when only 150 HP is missing.
- Not curing.
- Not curing other people when they get hit.
- Not stacking enmity spikes (Flash, Provoke, Cure III/IV, etc.) with Sentinel.
- Using Sentinel before doing anything to the critter (this wastes 1800 VE)
- Not using Reprisal.
- Not using Shield Bash or Rampart when facing spell casters.
- Not using Defender and leaving it on when getting hard hard and MP is low.
- Not using Berserk and leaving it on when the DDs are tanking.
- DD-only PLD.
- Turtle-only PLD.
- No gear macro PLD.


Did I already mention not using Cover? Not using Flash/Provoke? Or Cure IV-only, and only for 150 HP or less? grrr... Makes me grind my teeth...

[Mageta]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

I remember the guides saying T.M. Espadon +2 was the best sword until 60. Is there a sword at 60 I will want to use? Or just use that until Company Sword/ Save the Queen/ Maca +1/ Joyeuse ?

Thanks a bunch for the info. I was able to get Haube last night so once I get the chance to level again I'll use it at 59.

Also Should I attempt the Genkai 3 solo? Or should I ask for assistance with that? I have seen some videos with people soloing and I haven't leveled whm or rdm due to feeling like I don't have the mp for it. (Galka)

[Takelli]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Best to try and find some help for it. But you can solo it if you want to try though.

But, my best advice for paladin gear though. Would be to try and find a balance between dealing damage and being able to take hits. Not full on one or the other type of thing.

[Malacite]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Hospitaler isn't that great really.

Cure IV tops around what, 380 HP? So that would be an additional 19 HP cured. Big, freaking, whoop. Nice for a macro piece I suppose but would not full-time that. Better off boosting your attack a bit with a Spike Earring or two. Later on Brutal + Etheral is a very nice combo to have as well.

[Takelli]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Hospitaler isn't that great really.

Cure IV tops around what, 380 HP? So that would be an additional 19 HP cured. Big, freaking, whoop. Nice for a macro piece I suppose but would not full-time that. Better off boosting your attack a bit with a Spike Earring or two. Later on Brutal + Etheral is a very nice combo to have as well.

Well, if you are fighting birds and can never get off a weapon skill, I suggest also using Hospilitar+Light Staff to increase your max healing ability. It will help with mp management, but it could get a bit tricky as your damage out put will drop for a few seconds while curing.

[Malacite]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Well, if you are fighting birds and can never get off a weapon skill, I suggest also using Hospilitar+Light Staff to increase your max healing ability. It will help with mp management, but it could get a bit tricky as your damage out put will drop for a few seconds while curing.

Can't say I approve of this either. I'd rather keep the shield on to block incoming attacks. By switching to the light staff you're leaving yourself more open to spell interrupt and taking more damage too, pretty well negating the extra 10% HP gained and then some.

Curing yourself is highly inefficient anyway, in terms of holding hate. Unless I'm really getting my ass handed to me, I prefer to keep my MP for Flash & Reprisal and cast the odd Cure 4 if I really need a hate spike, or maybe a C3 to top off my HP. Relying on Cures for your main source of enmity will deplete your MP very quickly.

[Tipsy]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

I'm a 75 PLD, and honestly I feel any form of a DD setup for EXP (especially at your level) is an utter waste of time. IfritnoItazura pretty much covered everything regarding what's expected of you to do well.

For gear, my main focus is reducing damage taken and increasing HP. So obviously -DMG%, DEF, VIT are vital aspects to perform your job. In EXP, you also want to have a lot of ENM+ (try to find a good balance) depending on who your melees are. It's all situational, however, but there's no better feeling as a PLD then being hit for 0 damage by an EXP mob (without Shadow Mantle). I can't stress how important it is to keep your shield skill capped. At 75 with a capped shield skill, tanking Gods in more efficient with a Sword and Shield than using an Earth staff.

Also the Gluttony sword is really nice to have, I wouldn't sell it.

Also, @Malacite, Cures generate the longest lasting Enmity, healing other players and yourself is expected. He has parade gorget, just has to get sanction, a RDM and that's 5/tick, shouldn't have a problem.

[Malacite]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

I'm a 75 PLD, and honestly I feel any form of a DD setup for EXP (especially at your level) is an utter waste of time.

Kaeko, Armando and I would like to have a word with you.

[Tipsy]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Seeing as how no matter how much gil you sink into a DD setup, you'll always be subpar at it.

I mean, yeah, you can put out *some* numbers, but it's pointless in an EXP party if it sacrifices slots for gear that is more worthwhile to holding hate/taking less damage.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

DEF, VIT are vital aspects to perform your job.

Also the Gluttony sword is really nice to have, I wouldn't sell it.

Seeing as how no matter how much gil you sink into a DD setup, you'll always be subpar at it.

I mean, yeah, you can put out *some* numbers, but it's pointless in an EXP party if it sacrifices slots for gear that is more worthwhile to holding hate/taking less damage.

Kaeko, Armando, YM and I would all like to decapitate you.

Tipsy, stop spreading lies and misinformation: You can easily have too much DEF and especially VIT, Gluttony Sword is an abomination upon this game, and in terms of pure damage, of course you're not going to produce as much as dedicated DD jobs, otherwise what would be the point of playing anything else?

FACT: Dealing just 1 more point of damage always generates more hate than taking just 1 more point of damage. As a Paladin, you'll only be gimping yourself in normal EXP situations if you let yourself only fall in to one extreme or another. Your main focus is still to tank, but you cannot ignore the fact that your damage, since, while "sub-par," it is not insignificant by any means, is an integral part of the tanking process. While alone in a vacuum, it's not enough to strip hate from the other DDs, you're a freaking Paladin. In case you haven't noticed from back when you were being all gimpy with damage nowhere near as high as it could be, you've got more than enough hate-generating abilities up the wazoo to bridge that gap.

What the ideal, "hybrid" Paladin gear sets should always focus upon is sacrificing trivial, excessive amounts of defensive stats for key, significant increases to your offense. (I wouldn't sell Gluttony Sword either - I'd drop it, as the less of those that are being used the better. Joyeuse is pretty much the standard as far as Swords go at this point. Also, shoot yourself once for each instance of purple among your armor sets that isn't Dusk hands or feet, maybe Koenig Shield.)

You say you're a 75 PLD; I say to stop doing it wrong and setting a bad example as per far too many other Paladins out there.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Hospitaler isn't that great really.

Cure IV tops around what, 380 HP? So that would be an additional 19 HP cured. Big, freaking, whoop. Nice for a macro piece I suppose but would not full-time that. Better off boosting your attack a bit with a Spike Earring or two. Later on Brutal + Etheral is a very nice combo to have as well.

Of course the Hospitaler Earring is a macro piece--so is the Spike Earring--macro that in when not curing.

At Lv.65, the VE multiplier for HP cured is 4.90; so, 19HP is 93 VE, before enmity modification from gear/food/Sentinel. A good PLD will be curing anyway, to not want 5% more enmity from cures just seems strange to me.

Against a Lv.72 target, the VE multiplier for damage output is 4.80; basically, you'll have to do 19 HP or more worth of damage to equal the extra 19 HP cured to match--but you're not swinging while casting Cure, so it's automatically 0 damage output.

A Cure Potency +5% gear increases the enmity from curing by 5%. A Peacock Charm increases the hit rate (and thus the damage output) by 5%. The Hospitaler Earring is in some ways a PCC for Cure in terms of effectiveness.

Also keep in mind that you can usually cure while wearing a fair amount of enmity gear, while you cannot output decent damage in enmity gear (with a few exceptions like Homam/Askar hands).

* * *

If you really, really believe that outputting damage beats curing for enmity in exp parties, don't cure at all. It'd be just a waste of time if you think about it logically. But, that's the trouble with beliefs; if you follow them to the logical conclusions, you'd often end up at absurdity.

As a Lv.65 PLD fighting a Lv.72 target, A 190 HP Cure III is worth 931 VE before enmity modification, taking 2.5 seconds. You would need to do 193 damage in that same 2.5 seconds just to match the enmity output for a single Cure III--or, have to do even more damage, if the cure was cast with enmity+ gear on.

Focusing on outputting damage is a method to supplement a PLD's curing enmity (at the expense of the healer's resource)--but, it's not our main source of enmity, in my opinion. Not until a player can use /NIN, perform nearly flawless Utusemi tanking in DD gear, and spam Atonement, anyway.

Or, putting it another way: if there's room on someone's HP bar for a Cure III while fighting high VT or tougher, rarely would a PLD be able to generate more enmity by swinging than by curing.

[Malacite]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

I geared my PLD offensively as much as possible on the way to 70, and got a lot of compliments over several parties for it. I was probably taking more damage than some others, but when you gear for offense in EXP it's really hard to rip rate off a good PLD.

Haubergeon, Accuracy Gear, Berserk during WS (then either cancel or defender to cancel it out) and Flash as much as freaking possible. In fact I'd even use Flash over Cure 3 when seriously hurt because I know Flash will at least buy me a couple of free hits and rack up more enmity for someone to try something drastic.

Not entirely sure I want to take it beyond 70, I'm waiting until I at least have more Homam Gear (or if the AF3 stats are very good as SE has hinted AF3 won't be nearly as annoying to get as other armor sets)


Damn I hope they have set bonuses this time too. Would it be asking too much for PLD AF3 to have Set Bonus: Damage Taken - (insert value here) ?

[Tipsy]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

Tipsy, stop spreading lies and misinformation: You can easily have too much DEF and especially VIT, Gluttony Sword is an abomination upon this game, and in terms of pure damage, of course you're not going to produce as much as dedicated DD jobs, otherwise what would be the point of playing anything else?

FACT: Dealing just 1 more point of damage always generates more hate than taking just 1 more point of damage. As a Paladin, you'll only be gimping yourself in normal EXP situations if you let yourself only fall in to one extreme or another. Your main focus is still to tank, but you cannot ignore the fact that your damage, since, while "sub-par," it is not insignificant by any means, is an integral part of the tanking process. While alone in a vacuum, it's not enough to strip hate from the other DDs, you're a freaking Paladin. In case you haven't noticed from back when you were being all gimpy with damage nowhere near as high as it could be, you've got more than enough hate-generating abilities up the wazoo to bridge that gap.

What the ideal, "hybrid" Paladin gear sets should always focus upon is sacrificing trivial, excessive amounts of defensive stats for key, significant increases to your offense. (I wouldn't sell Gluttony Sword either - I'd drop it, as the less of those that are being used the better. Joyeuse is pretty much the standard as far as Swords go at this point. Also, shoot yourself once for each instance of purple among your armor sets that isn't Dusk hands or feet, maybe Koenig Shield.)

You say you're a 75 PLD; I say to stop doing it wrong and setting a bad example as per far too many other Paladins out there.

Please don't try to pass your opinions as fact.

A) PLD is completely useless in end-game merit parties, they're typically wasting a spot that can otherwise be filled with a more efficient job.
B) During HNM battles, my PLD gets equipped with HP+ and DMG-%, ENM+ any where else. Why would you equip DD here?
C) For whatever else requires main hate distribution, I would rely more on technique, with HP, DMG-%, DEF, VIT to take as little damage as possible. When you have a well geared alliance wailing on a mob, there's nothing hitting for a few damage higher will do.
D) The grind 1-75, I never equipped DD. Never needed to. Was never a point where I found my self at a complete wall in which I could not keep hate, thus I set my focus on taking as little damage as possible.

If you personally prefer one setup to another, there's no reason to completely try and bash the other, no matter how omnipotent you think it is, comparatively. The way I set up was to input as much VIT to lower the damage curve and then follow up with defense to bring my damage taken as close to the curve as possible, stacking with -DMG% I was hit for marginal damage.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Hello Fellow PLD

I geared my PLD offensively as much as possible on the way to 70, and got a lot of compliments over several parties for it. I was probably taking more damage than some others, but when you gear for offense in EXP it's really hard to rip rate off a good PLD.

*shrug* It's easy to get praises in exp parties; the standards and expectations have never been all that high. I've gotten plenty--both while using defense and while using hybrid setups. Heck, even level sync'ed down in gears with only defense and a bit of HP, VIT, and enmity+ after sync, I got plenty of compliments.

And, at the higher levels, it's pretty easy to "rip hate off" of a PLD, good, bad, offense, defense, or otherwise; Meditate> Sekkanoki > Penta Thrust > Penta Thrust would usually do the trick, in my experience.

FACT: Dealing just 1 more point of damage always generates more hate than taking just 1 more point of damage.

While this is technically true (more or less) it's kind of a moot point. Taking damage is losing CE, but PLD don't have much CE in exp parties anyway. It would be better to say taking damage have only a small impact on enmity performance, and how much damage should a PLD take is merely an issue of resource management.

Also, shoot yourself once for each instance of purple among your armor sets that isn't Dusk hands or feet, maybe Koenig Shield.)

Koenig Shield is actually a really nice shield; it's a good source of Defense* and Enmity. (*Defense figures in twice; shields' Defense improves the amount mitigation when shield blocking, as well as decreases the amount of damage taken when not shield blocking by a bit.)

While I frequently use Simba Buckler, if I'm expecting a monster to break through Utsusemi frequently, or if the target is a beast type monster, I use Koenig Shield. In fact, I tend to keep both in inventory--I may start with Simba, but if my co-tank goes down, I'd often switch to Koenig. Koenig is definitely my go-to shield when /RDM or /WAR.

As for the Adaman Cuirass set, it's not a bad set of armor to idle in if you don't have Atonement. The body can also double for Chivalry gear (MND), and various pieces have enough VIT on them for the Rampart set. The defense on the Legs are quite nice compared to Iron Ram, IIRC.

Honestly, with good support, PLD/WAR's can tank the Shijin in Sky wearing that stuff. Not that I'd recommend the set to the up-and-coming PLDs, but an old-time PLD who happen to have pieces of the Adaman Cuirass set and know when to use the pieces can do good things with them.

By endgame, Dusk hands/feet are primarily casting gear for Utsusemi, Flash, and Reprisal-- they are only good as TP gear for those with Atonement, and only until the player can get Homam. There's still a place for defense gearing even in the age of /NIN.

A) PLD is completely useless in end-game merit parties, they're typically wasting a spot that can otherwise be filled with a more efficient job.

I wouldn't say PLD is useless, but, yes, can build more efficient parties without PLD.

B) During HNM battles, my PLD gets equipped with HP+ and DMG-%, ENM+ any where else. Why would you equip DD here?

Atonement and Chivalry.

C) For whatever else requires main hate distribution, I would rely more on technique, with HP, DMG-%, DEF, VIT to take as little damage as possible. When you have a well geared alliance wailing on a mob, there's nothing hitting for a few damage higher will do.

The DD gear is for the TP, not the melee DoT--and the TP is for Atonement and Chivalry.

No idea what is "main hate distribution", though.

D) The grind 1-75, I never equipped DD. Never needed to. Was never a point where I found my self at a complete wall in which I could not keep hate, thus I set my focus on taking as little damage as possible.

Then, your memory is fuzzy, or you just never had a strong DD.