This job is too easy.

[Raitox]

Re: This job is too easy.

So you call Taskmage's response, your response, and Armandos response... what then?
I fail to see the logic here.

[Taskmage]

Re: This job is too easy.

My post in the other thread was an inappropriate response to an inappropriate post. Two wrongs do not make a right and they certainly don't justify a third and a fourth.

[Raitox]

Re: This job is too easy.

I know you apologized. I'm just surprised at Murphie's logic.

[Murphie]

Re: This job is too easy.

How are you surprised at my logic? Please explain.

[Raitox]

Re: This job is too easy.

Originally Posted by me
It's about on par on the treatment you guys have been given to me. And... you can't say it isn't true.

It isn't, and I can.

When you said that. There have only been 3-4 posts I can call authentically argumentative. And I'm getting tired. i may have time for 2-3 more replies but my head might hit the keyboard.

[Murphie]

Re: This job is too easy.

Our posts have been, for the most part, in response to your somewhat ridiculous claims. I'm not excusing the tone used in replying to you, but as Armando said, why do you expect not to be flamed after posting flame bait? And then you just keep the cycle going with your subsequent replies. I can only surmise that you enjoy it. And as such, I won't indulge you further.

But seriously, stating shit like this as though it's irrefutable fact, and then sniping at those who respond to you is almost always going to result in a pretty heated thread.

[Raitox]

Re: This job is too easy.

I admit my original post could've been less accusative. I guess I was asking for it.

[Celeal]

Re: This job is too easy.

I am not trying to flame... IMHO, these PLD's updates is for the issue with PLD-main tank vs DD/NIN TP-burn in exp parties, instead of PLD main tank vs. NIN main tank in exp. parties. Basically, the 1st few Shield adjustment should bridge the gap between PLD tank vs. NIN tank for exp. parties. The addition of Auto-Refresh, Shield Mastery, Rampart, Sentinel, Reprisal are target at the gap between PLD tank and TP burn.

[Raydeus]

Re: This job is too easy.

I'm just glad we have a /blist here.

[Karinya]

Re: This job is too easy.

It's not as though PLD needs help with invites. Or soloability. Or endgame (or mid-game) viability. They aren't super fantastic with the shield blocking though so suddenly we should feel give them a new spell that gives just over 50% shield activation normally?

Um, which server are you on where PLD can get 1/10 the invite rate of a NIN? Or get invited to do anything at endgame without an Aegis and crapload of haste gear?

PLD has a worse reputation than PUP. They can keep hate - until they run all the healers out of MP and die. Then you get a NIN and win the fight. I wish I could say this viewpoint is wrong and it's just player stupidity, but NIN really is that much better. Unless you can afford to pack in 2-3x more support to keep the PLD alive, you might as well just take the DD that's also an invulnerable supertank. Sure, a few more of your BLMs will probably commit suicide because of the lower hate ceiling, but that won't threaten the group as a whole the way a tank that (gasp) *takes damage* would.

The two main functions of a tank are to hold hate, and to take less damage. PLD is slightly better at one. NIN is miles better at the other (which is also the one that matters more in HNMs and other endurance fights). When people say defense is "broken" they don't mean it reduces HNM hits to 0 - defense is the bad kind of broken, utsusemi and haste are the good kind of broken. (Good for the player that has them, not for the game as a whole.)

And of course in merit, having a tank that's also a DD is a huge advantage. So the job that was designed as a DD but became a supertank by accident is vastly preferred to the job that was designed to sacrifice offense for defense (and still takes more damage).

Speaking of merits, NINs can improve their damage through merits and hold more hate. What can a PLD merit to stop taking damage? Shield skill and enemy crit just aren't getting the job done. (Either can merit enmity, if they don't have other jobs that would be hosed by doing so.)


If your main beef is that /NIN gets too much of NIN - I agree, I'd actually like to see Utsu:Ni be a level or two higher and therefore non-subbable. I don't know wtf SE was thinking to give such a ludicrously powerful spell to *anyone*, let alone everyone through SJ. But that's the kind of radical change they never, ever make, so we're pretty much stuck with it. The brokenness of Utsu (especially subbed, and especially when combined with haste) has been obvious for years; if SE intended to do anything they'd have done it by now, I think.

Ironically, if Utsu had originally had the recast time of Reprisal (or for that matter if it had been level 61), then we wouldn't be having this conversation; NIN would still be the DD/puller/enfeebler it was designed to be, and /NIN wouldn't be that great. (Of course most post-RoZ content would have to have been designed under the assumption that players would usually take damage from attacks.) Instead it's - what was the term, super fantastic? - and took over the game.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: This job is too easy.

NIN is like RDM in that there isn't really much you can do to improve the job.

I would have taken Reprisal if it just increased block ratio. I like the idea of having a higher chance to block, especially with Shield Mastery meaning I can still cast necessary cures.

Damage reflection is icing on a delicious and moist cake.

[Jonastb]

Re: This job is too easy.

I believe, though I could be wrong, that the whole thing was created because PLD has gotten some serious love from SE in the last year. Almost every update had something for PLD, and the OP was stating how they were making it easier for PLDs to tank.

I am not saying I agree or disagree. I am just saying this is what I believe started it.

[Taskmage]

Re: This job is too easy.

Damage reflection is icing on a delicious and moist cake.

Look at you still talking when there's science to do.

[Ziero]

Re: This job is too easy.

I believe, though I could be wrong, that the whole thing was created because PLD has gotten some serious love from SE in the last year. Almost every update had something for PLD, and the OP was stating how they were making it easier for PLDs to tank.

I am not saying I agree or disagree. I am just saying this is what I believe started it.

That's because, as said before, it's hard to buff nin without making it too strong. While on the other hand Plds suffered horribly by being second string tanks, in both Exp and Endgame, compared to nin. Now the playing field is getting leveled and the Nin dominance is starting to dwindle down to a more balanced level.

But let me just say this, as a War.

At least you can still tank effectively.

[Andrinor]

Re: This job is too easy.

NINs are feeling a little burned because pretty much everything added to their job over the past few years has been a joke (Tier II merits) or given to everyone and their mother (Monomi: Ichi available as /sub, no Monomi: Ni). There are also glaring examples of simple things SE can give us that are already in the game but for some reason refuse to (Jubaku: Ni).

However, the assertion that PLD is too easy to play or didn't need all these buffs I have to disagree with. I can see the difference in attitudes STARKLY because my wife is 75PLD and I'm 75NIN. When I get merit invites, I get asked to switch to NIN. When she does, she has to beg to come PLD and even then there's a collective groan about how it will "Slow the PT down". Perception is reality, and there is a rampant perception that PLD is almost always an inferior tank to NIN which buffing PLD may help to counter.

Personally, I'm not threatened by these PLD buffs. NIN tanking isn't going anywhere. Besides, the day when my wife gets asked to come PLD and I am free to merit as SAM will be a joyous one >_>