Reprisal

[Karinya]

Re: Reprisal

Some of the reflected damage hits seem abnormally low - is the damage resistable? That's not so good for HNM applications... well, I guess the increased block rate is enough reason to cast it there anyway. One extra block (and you'll probably get a lot more than one extra block) will pretty much pay for a 24 mp spell just on the curing it saves you, let alone the reduced enmity loss from taking less damage.

Thanks for figuring out the formula. It also explains where the "half the damage you take" thing on wiki came from: for a size 3 shield, damage is reduced 60%, you take 40%, and the attacker takes 20% of the original base damage - i.e. half what you take. (Before any further adjustments or resists.)


So for physical attacks:
Evasion
Parry
Blink/utsusemi
Defense (base damage is calculated here; critical bonus damage is applied here)
Shield blocks/Reprisal
Guard?
Sentinel/-% damage (and Invincible?)
Phalanx
Stoneskin
Whatever's left at this point comes out of HP. If it's greater than 0, both sides gain TP and the defender has a chance of spell interruption.

...is that right?

Is Reprisal's damage reduced by magic defense bonus? Or by the magic damage reduction certain special mobs (like Besieged) seem to have? I haven't seen a Besieged on Carby since the update.

[ItachiKujata]

Re: Reprisal

Fought Ouryu yesterday and while using reprisal I noticed I didn't really block as much as I did with lower level things. Block rate might be increased but the increase seems to depend on mob level. I'm guessing magic defense affects reprisal dmg, but haven't really tested it. Doing limbus last night, it did 0 to magic immune mobs.

[Armando]

Re: Reprisal

Some of the reflected damage hits seem abnormally low - is the damage resistable?

Yes.

That's not so good for HNM applications... well, I guess the increased block rate is enough reason to cast it there anyway. One extra block (and you'll probably get a lot more than one extra block) will pretty much pay for a 24 mp spell just on the curing it saves you, let alone the reduced enmity loss from taking less damage.

Correct. The spell only takes 1 second to cast so it hardly detracts from anything you're doing, and like you said, just 1 shield block will make it more than pay for itself.

So for physical attacks:
Evasion
Parry
Blink/utsusemi
Defense (base damage is calculated here; critical bonus damage is applied here)
Shield blocks/Reprisal
Guard?
Sentinel/-% damage (and Invincible?)
Phalanx
Stoneskin
Whatever's left at this point comes out of HP. If it's greater than 0, both sides gain TP and the defender has a chance of spell interruption.

...is that right?

I am not sure if Evasion checks before or after parrying, but they are right next to each other, yes. I am not sure whether Guard checks before or after shielding, but they are right next to each other as well, correct. Invincible comes after Phalanx (and before Stoneskin), and TP calculation comes before Phalanx - you can get TP from a hit that would've done more than 0 if you didn't have Phalanx on. You can't get TP through Invincible or Stoneskin though.

Also, Sentinel and % Damage reduction are separate, but since they're multiplicative it doesn't really matter which comes first and which comes second.

Is Reprisal's damage reduced by magic defense bonus? Or by the magic damage reduction certain special mobs (like Besieged) seem to have? I haven't seen a Besieged on Carby since the update.

I would assume so, but I haven't gone out of my way to test such things yet.

[Karinya]

Re: Reprisal

I am not sure if Evasion checks before or after parrying, but they are right next to each other, yes.

This is theoretically testable, but I think the only thing it would really matter for would be skilling up parry. (You'd want to avoid +eva if it stops you from checking parry, the same way monks want to avoid +eva when they skillup guard.)
Speaking of monks, I forgot Counter, which also prevents the hit. Does it go before or after shadows?

I am not sure whether Guard checks before or after shielding, but they are right next to each other as well, correct.

I don't think it's possible for it to ever matter which comes first, since they can never apply at the same time (you'd have to be using a HTH weapon and a shield). Unless you can guard with no main hand weapon and a shield, which I don't think I've ever tried.

Invincible comes after Phalanx (and before Stoneskin),

How could you possibly know that? (Not accusing you of lying or anything, just wondering.) The latter you could determine by seeing that your stoneskin doesn't weaken or wear off during invincible (when taking only physical attacks), but the former?

and TP calculation comes before Phalanx - you can get TP from a hit that would've done more than 0 if you didn't have Phalanx on.

Cool, I didn't know that. I usually combine it with stoneskin, which of course makes this go away, because as you point out

You can't get TP through Invincible or Stoneskin though.

A shame when it happens to you, but nice when it happens to trolls. It means they have to take some actual hits before they have the TP to reapply it.

I'm not positive, but I think that when you shield block a hit that is reduced to 0 later in the series, you don't get the Shield Mastery TP either. (Except for the Phalanx exception, I guess.)

Also, Sentinel and % Damage reduction are separate, but since they're multiplicative it doesn't really matter which comes first and which comes second.

True.

[Armando]

Re: Reprisal

This is theoretically testable, but I think the only thing it would really matter for would be skilling up parry. (You'd want to avoid +eva if it stops you from checking parry, the same way monks want to avoid +eva when they skillup guard.)
Speaking of monks, I forgot Counter, which also prevents the hit. Does it go before or after shadows?

It most certainly is testable, but I'm not up to the task, lol. You said it yourself - it only really matters for skilling up. As for Counter, it goes after shadows. You can't Counter with shadows up.

I don't think it's possible for it to ever matter which comes first, since they can never apply at the same time (you'd have to be using a HTH weapon and a shield). Unless you can guard with no main hand weapon and a shield, which I don't think I've ever tried.

Sorry, I got Counter and Guard mixed up lol. I meant to say/think that I'm not sure whether Counter checks before or after Shielding. I lean more towards after, but I wouldn't know for real.

How could you possibly know that? (Not accusing you of lying or anything, just wondering.) The latter you could determine by seeing that your stoneskin doesn't weaken or wear off during invincible (when taking only physical attacks), but the former?

Well, it's possible to get TP off of a hit that was non-zero before Phalanx, but you'll never get TP from hits while Invincible is up, so Invincible is setting the damage to 0 before Phalanx is being checked. It's pretty trivial, really, but you know how I always get technical with things.

I'm not positive, but I think that when you shield block a hit that is reduced to 0 later in the series, you don't get the Shield Mastery TP either. (Except for the Phalanx exception, I guess.)

Yeah, Shield Mastery bonus only kicks in whenever you'd have gotten TP normally so it doesn't occur if Stoneskin or Invincible drop the damage to 0.

[Aelemar]

Re: Reprisal

Utsusemi:Ichi
Uses the ninja tool, "Shihei". Creates (3) shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at you.

Holy shit, there's a spell called Ichi!

By the way...

NIN/PLD/BLU75

Just saying, exp to 75, Paladin is retarded easy to keep hate.

Voke
Flash
Shieldbash/sentinel
cures for steady hate gain

Ninja 1-39
Voke... debuffs that are kinda pointless before ni

Ninja 40-53
Spam wheel. Efficient, but about 1 million gil in levels. Ni debuffs.

Ninja 54-75

Damage, really. Meripo doesn't matter really.

"My epeen is bigger than your entire body because I am a ninja. I feel the need to remind you of this to fill the void in my soul from my already-broken job getting nothing for years while my rival job gets a new Christmas every three months. Please cry for me, as I will be in the corner listening to Linkin Park while simultaneously pretending I'm too cool for it."

Can't deny PLD has basically been sucking S-E dry.

...and.... sure, Utsu is broken. Shadows and dual wield does not make a job. That is all subbable. I want a fucking JA that doesn't make me commit suicide or is meritable. Something to enhance us as DD's, ANYTHING. Anyway.

NIN tanking up to meripo levels, actually requires good weapons, and a dedication to the job by paying for tools. A gimpy NIN won't keep hate at all.

PLD, on the other hand?

Voke every 30 seconds, derp.
Flash every 45, derp.
Shield Bash or Sentinel every few, derp.
Rampart, derp.
Reprisal, "O hay! Now I take even less damage!"
Warcry, Derp.

It's a damn good thing NIN is a better choice than PLD for meripo.

Well, to answer your little "concern" on PLD supposedly being retardedly easy to tank wich in comparison to NIN. Simply put: NINJA WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A TANK. That's why SE adjusted shadows now to lose enmity every time you lose one. For years, people "tank" with ninja, but truth is, a ninja is nowhere half as good as a PLD in hate keeping (1500Dmg magic Bursts, anyone?) simply, and I repeat myself, NIN WAS NEVER MEANT TO TANK. Geez.

And yes, PLD can be retardedly easy to keep hate, if you're good at it. Try the same supposedly hate-keeping "fool-proof" technique when you have a couple of trigger happy BLMs Bursting.

Needless to say, a NIN can never dream to hold through that. Ninjas were always, always meant to be a support/debuffing job. And to add versatility to many other jobs when subbed.

Paladin 75
Warrior 75

Merits: about 470 distributed equally between jobs.

[Callisto]

Re: Reprisal

zombie, etc

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Reprisal

I still find it funny people actually sit there and count thier merits.

Oh well, guess the Whitegate scene has to have something to do.