A few question on PLD/NIN

[Celeal]

*I have already used the search function on this topic, but I still have a few questions... instead of resurrecting the old threads, I make this post.

Finally my PLD reaches level 74 I tried PLD/NIN is a DRG testimony hunt. The 1st thing i notice is: The shadows are stripped fairly quickly by the mob, faster than I was expected.

My question is, how to Ni -> Ichi -> Ni -> Ichi -> ... as a PLD/NIN? With /NIN, Utsusemi: Ni only has 3 shadows. If I do the normal NIN tank Ni -> Ichi routine --- cancel the last Ni shadow and overlapping with Ichi --- I doubt the recast timer for both Ni and Ichi can make it.

My 2nd question is, is Sword + Shield acceptable for pld/nin?

[Spinnthrift]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

A: Haste Gear, and lots of it. And a haste spell, and probably a bard too for Marches. Then Emnity gear. Lots of that also.

B: Yep, Sword and Board is fine for Pld/Nin, it's just Pld/Nin isn't always engaged, they stand there and spam Flash and stuff, like curing self/party and Sentinel/Rampart and making emnity while their up. The Emnity + sword is pretty shiny for it too.

[Raydeus]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

If you are fighting test mobs I suggest going /RDM instead if you have the job available.

PLD has bad evasion, that's why your shadows are taken off so fast, NINs and THFs have high evasion which makes shadows last longer, and RDM/NINs have fast cast to compensate for the lack of evasion.

RDM gives you a decent Phalanx, Stoneskin, more mp, decent Enspells and Blaze spikes. All of them help you more and will save you more MP than Utsusemi ever will against weaker mobs.

PLD/NIN is mostly used for mobs that hit so hard that you are saving a lot of MP using Utsusemi (Dynamis mobs, Besieged and others), and you usually have Haste and other kinds of Back up in that situation, but for soloing weaker mobs is a waste. Also, since you are tanking in those situations Sword + Shield works much better.


And for tanking using Utsusemi it depends on your playstyle, but in my case I always tank with Ichi. As PLD it goes something like this:

Ichi > Ichi > Ni > Flash/Ichi > the rest is keep playing timers. Plus you can take some hits while spells coold down so is not like you'll die after the initial 12 shadows are gone.

[Raydeus]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Forgot to mention, for all intends and purposes asume you aren't going to evade a single hit except for when you Flash the mob.

The only time +Eva gear will ever help you is when macroed with Flash to ensure you evade everything while you cast Ichi again (plus Shield Mastery helps you in those situations too). Other than that don't even try to go the +Eva way unless you can achieve +70 evasion somehow and are comfortable trading dmg/def gear for that evasion.


Edit > Is automerge disabled on the site? I'm gonna have to make a Mod Call to merge these two posts.

[Celeal]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Thanks for replies.

I have another question on recasting Ichi for pld/nin during combat: Can a size 1 shield worthwhile for this? I know in "general" size 3 shield has the best damage reduction over-time, but size 1 shield has the best proc rate and shield block can prevent spell interruption.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Hrm, most Pld's I see use size three or four depending on situation, but wear as much +shield skill or evasion skill gear as they can in slots when recasting. This is going mainly off what our LS tanks say they gear...

They don't tend to solo in Pld/Nin though..

[DakAttack]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

I'm not worried about taking hits when I'm Pld/Nin, I just keep shadows up when I can, and heal when it's necessary. I dual wield of course.

[Celeal]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

I understand the benefits of dual swords too. I agree with that; It works in TP-burn parties and has been proven.

But how about outside of exp. parties, or in exp. parties that does not 100% fit the "ideal" TP-burn model? Does Sword + Shield is safer in this case?

I am just wondering, which one is "better" (aww... I cannot find a better word) for a pld/nin recasting Ichi?
1. Evasion (+eva and +skill)
2. Shield (Most widely accepted Size-3 shield and +skill)
3. My 3rd option: use a Size-1 shield and let its massive proc-rate to do its trick.

[DakAttack]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

You'd most likely take less damage with a shield than with two swords, and there might be stats on a shield that you'd want too. I'm not so sure at the moment, but I think now blocking with a shield cuts down on cast interrupts.

[Raydeus]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Thanks for replies.

I have another question on recasting Ichi for pld/nin during combat: Can a size 1 shield worthwhile for this? I know in "general" size 3 shield has the best damage reduction over-time, but size 1 shield has the best proc rate and shield block can prevent spell interruption.

I understand the benefits of dual swords too. I agree with that; It works in TP-burn parties and has been proven.

But how about outside of exp. parties, or in exp. parties that does not 100% fit the "ideal" TP-burn model? Does Sword + Shield is safer in this case?

I am just wondering, which one is "better" (aww... I cannot find a better word) for a pld/nin recasting Ichi?
1. Evasion (+eva and +skill)
2. Shield (Most widely accepted Size-3 shield and +skill)
3. My 3rd option: use a Size-1 shield and let its massive proc-rate to do its trick.

For Utsusemi tanking (on weaker mobs) a size 1 shield will help you the most.

You aren't taking too much dmg to begin with, so the dmg reduction diference wont affect you much, and the proc. rate will make a huge difference for those times when you are trying to cast Ichi and Flash is gone (usually the part of the fight where you just used Ni but there's a lot of time left before you can use Flash again).

Also, on weak mobs you could try using a GS (for dmg) or a staff (for endurance with Spirit taker) and see if they work better for you than dual swords.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

There seem to be two uses for PLD/NIN.

The first one is for merit parties, where dual wield is used to increase damage output and Utsusemi is used to reduce healing MP needed. A PLD in that situation isn't so much a tank (unless there's a THF or something) as someone who uses Flash and/or WS to pry critters off of the puller.

Second one is for special, hard fights. Definitely sword and shield here--Aegis greatly preferred, but size 1 shield is workable. (I've seen size 3 shield used at KS99 run, though.) No one expects the PLD to go from Ni > Ichi > Ni perfectly without taking any damage, but they will laugh if you eat a Burst II or something. In any case, shield block helps to get Utsusemi up, and even then PLDs are often instructed to cure their co-tank(s) since it may be hard to get a Cure III/IV off under fire.

Two or more PLD/NIN's working together with proper support have pretty decent survivability. Flash rotation, Rampart x2, Shield Bash x2, cures from each other, etc.

* * *

Not that I've tried either of that; my PLD is only 70. Consider everything I said to be suspect. =b

[Karinya]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

No one expects the PLD to go from Ni > Ichi > Ni perfectly without taking any damage, but they will laugh if you eat a Burst II or something.

Nitpick: some HNMs' AM2s are actually ridiculously fast, so if they laugh at you for eating that, they're idiots. But if you eat a genuinely slow-casting spell like Kirin's Quake, yeah. Pay attention and get some shadows up before that goes off :D

Otherwise the post looks pretty good, except I would reiterate for the benefit of other PLDs looking at this: Do not try this below level 74. (Except maybe for testing purposes, but you'll probably only reconfirm the crappiness of sub-74 /NIN.) It is completely, totally not worth it when you get only Utsu:Ichi and an amount of dual wield that ends up inferior to Double Attack. You must have PLD74, NIN37, Utsu:Ni learned and plenty of shihei or you'd be better off staying with another sub, regardless of what gear you have.

[DakAttack]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Psh, I do great, and I'm just now able to use my Supernomimi. Five percent haste isn't much by itself, but even as Pld/War the +5 sword skill is noice. I think my circumstances are different than what you're imaging, though, because I'm in Campaign and shadows help me string along opponents until back-up arrives or they finish off the orc next to me. It definately helps with the Gwaj, but not that much.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

Psh, I do great, and I'm just now able to use my Supernomimi. Five percent haste isn't much by itself, but even as Pld/War the +5 sword skill is noice.

Suppanomimi does not give haste; it's a delay reduction for dual wield.

[Celeal]

Re: A few question on PLD/NIN

I had exp. party today, but still no chance of trying PLD/NIN. It seems for those players who invite PLD to lvl 74+ pick-up party, they all want PLD/WAR....

There is nothing wrong with PLD/WAR, I am cool with that. However, from my observation, Hybird-DD pld tank is still not widely acknowledge yet (at least in pick-up parties).

P.S.
Trying to hold hate in merit parties is so stressful.... Orz