Midgame

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Odd. I can't find it on the site either now. Give me a few to upload it to FileFront.

And thanks Celeal, Save the Queen is very fun to use.

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Took long enough. Here you go. Top file.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

89%?

What was your gear/food?

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Main: Save the Queen
Sub: R.K. Army Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell
Head: Gallant Coronet
Neck: R.G. Collar/Shield Torque
Earrings: Assault Earring + Insomnia Earring
Body: Haubergeon full-time
Hands: Gallant Gauntlets
Rings: Woodsman + Woodsman/Jelly Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle
Waist: Life Belt
Legs: Gallant Cuisses
Feet: Gallant Leggings

Food: Squid/Dorado Sushi

If I parsed 95% hit rate in some fights then I had a BRD.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, I also alternated a lot between Swift Blade and Vorpal Blade between parties. Sometimes they'd be willing to skillchain with me (in which case Swift would help with its Lv.2 properties), other times I just Vorpal'd as I saw fit.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

Well. At least Excel is fun to use.
The good news is that with 1.4m Gil, I'll be done with my PLD DD setup.

Until you find something else out.

[Omni]

Re: Midgame

Whaaa? It was nothing personal in the first place. Omni seemed to be under the impression that the average DD PLD hits for 0 and that's just not the case. Your example wasn't typical and I was letting him know that. But what does that have to do with my question about your statement that High Breath Mantle lowers damage?
My bad about the parses, should've specified. I use Tazzylynn's parser. You can find it here. Once it's installed run it and choose File -> Parse Gathered Log -> choose one of the files in the .zip. Don't know if DVS Parse can open them, I've never used it.

Dude, your assumptions are way off.

I was discussing 2 things.

1) does any attack gear at that lvl (which was 50s) make any sort of difference? because originally wishy was saying can u lose zerk or w/e amount of attack when using defender. i commented, does that 25% even matter at that point with mobs being so IT+++ and most your gear leaning on the def/vit side? it surely doesnt matter. +21 atk at that point is nothing when you do hit for 0 (as zempten pointed out since he is at that lvl).

2) then i was discussing how i dont see dd pld being any more effective than your general hp/def/enmity/wtfever pld.

perhaps my clarity wasnt well, so clear but really the assumption that i think any sort of dd hits for 0 is kinda condescending. ill chalk that up to bad assumptions however, from my experience merits and xp pts is that dd oriented pld do not do their job any better than a typical pld.

ive been in 2 pts in the last 2 days with plds. both merit and both on VT mobs. one was in mamook and one was in mire through nyzul isle. both pld went dd and both couldnt do their job at holding the mobs attention long enough for us to tp to 100. i dont need a parser to tell me that im soaking up mp because the tank cant hold hate.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

WAR benefits from being built from the ground up to DD. And having insane axes. And a wealth of gear options.

PLD can wear other gear, but to build a DD PLD is much harder than building a DD WAR.

Not saying that WAR have it easier, but WAR, NIN, RNG and MNK benefit from having inSANE DD gear options. The fact that each of those jobs can break 1k on a consistent basis during WSes, without subbing THF, shows this.

PLDs are lucky to be in the 800ish area consistently..

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Midgame

5-27-2007:

Dmg output%: 24.75% (Second highest, but Riddix seems to be a melee with subpar dmg output of 18.98%, compared to top DD Moonsshadow's 29.08%)
Melee Hit%: 89.56% (highest in party)
Avoid%: 24.31%
Dmg Taken: 117145
# times damaged: 965
Avg dmg taken/hit: 121.4

Impressive damage output and accuracy. Little iffy at the Avoid%, and not sure if 121.4 dmg/hit received is all that great. This was a chain#3-4 party.


* * *

5-28-2007:

Looks like the party had some churning, so disregarding attack data.

Better Avoid, at 28.65%, but was pounded harder at 145.4 dmg/hit taken. This was not a well chaining party, spreading mostly between chain#0-4.

* * *

5-30-2007:

My parser won't display this correctly. Meh.

* * *

6-01-2007:

Dmg output%: 19.05% (Third highest)
Melee Hit%: 79.97% (highest in party)
Avoid%: 29.49%
Dmg Taken: 107696
# times damaged: 959
Avg dmg taken/hit: 112.3

Decent avoid% (29.49%), and the average damage taken/hit went down to 112.3. This was a chain#0-4 party, but the parser derived some odd data from the log so not sure about that.

* * *

Notes:
1. If we have a defensive PLD's around same level who parsed his/her performance, we can get a better idea of how avoid% and average damage taken/hit would compare.
2. Haubergeon with Evasion-20% and AGI-5 translate directly to at least 10% less evasion, with fewer shield and parrying proc rate, if used full time.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

And the Woodsman has -5 Eva, don't forget that.

[Celeal]

Re: Midgame

What if the PLD uses SH instead of Hauby, and strictly no negative evasion or negative AGI gear?

In my last 2 parties (from 2k exp. past lvl 69, to the mid of lvl 70) I was tanking with SH full time, but ate Taco most of time. Maybe in my next party I should try sushi and use parser.

[Lmnop]

Re: Midgame

throwing a few random things together:

I haven't seen it done well at all. Something always gives when a pld tries to do that in my experience.

that +21 attack really does end up being trivial.

I just havent experienced a dd or dd-leaning pld that has done any better as his primary job than a hp/mp/enmity pld in any level range.

1) Most people suck.

2) the +21 attack was an option for under 30. At that level, that's not far from the benefit of attack food (Meat jerky caps @30). Yes, it certainly will help.

3) I hope your PLDs aren't meriting in HP gear...

Armando is just trying to say that it does help. And Armando's parses through the 60s are nice, but he's right for other levels as well. Mobs don't even start hitting hard 'til 50 anyway. Just because you don't have Armando in your party, Omni, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Did I mention...

1) Most people suck.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Midgame

What if the PLD uses SH instead of Hauby, and strictly no negative evasion or negative AGI gear?

My DD-hybrid build at Lv.65 isn't all that impressive:
Main: Bastard Sword (Couldn't afford Bastard Sword +1, but my mule has an Espadon +1)
Sub: Royal Knight Army Shield
Ranged: empty
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell
Head: Gallant Coronet
Neck: Royal Guard's Collar
L.Ear: Spike Earring
R.Ear: Minuet Earring/Spike Earring
Body: Scorpion Harness
Hands: Sipahi Dastanas
L.Ring: Venerer Ring
R.Ring: Puissance Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle
Waist: Life Belt
Legs: Royal Knight's Breeches
Feet: Gallant Leggings

I'd like a Jaeger Ring and a Peacock Charm, but fat chance of that. May be able to get a Chivalrous Chain, though. DD gears aren't cheap. /sigh

I didn't keep most the DD accessories on full time during exp. Some of the armor pieces, though, like SH and Sipahi Dastanas, I'd often go the entire session with them on. Against the SAM's in my static, I had no chance: verses easier critters where I can go full DD gear + Dorado Sushi, their damage scale up as much if not more. Without huge amount of additional investment, I think my 6-14% damage output in party (usually under 10%) is about as good as it gets for me.

Anyway, it is possible to build a DD set without lot's of Eva- or AGI-, but the results won't be as impressive on the damage output front. Yet, this kind of balance is necessary to keep the game "fair".

BTW, Venerer + Jaeger = Acc+7, while Woodsman x2 = Acc+10 but Eva-10. Additional Acc+3 is 1.5% better hit rate, for approximately 1.5% better damage. Eva-10 is getting hit 5% more, so the question is: is 1.5% better damage output worth 5% more damage taken?

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Omni, my apologies. I have to admit my posts as of late have been kind of rushed, which led to some confusion with Zempten as well. I think Lmnop said what I was trying to get at well enough though.

By the way don't forget that -10 Eva =/= +5% damage taken directly even if mobs play by the same Acc/Eva rules as us. -10 Eva would be 5% less hits evaded during Flash, which only takes up about 1/3 of the time you're being hit in a 1-Flash setup. That 1/3 is then shaved down by the ~25-30% damage reduction you get from shielding. But to be honest if I could get Jaeger Ring I'd use it.

Screw Chivalrous Chain, it's not a good enough improvement over R.G. Collar to hold on to it. I say sell it as soon as you get it and use that money for gear that WILL boost your performance by more than a marginal amount. I feel the same about Potent Belt.

Oh, sometimes my parser messes up when I try to parse multiple files in a row. Might wanna try 5-30-2007 again. I appreciate the analyses by the way. Speaking of them, I often let the WAR/NINs take some of the heat. I mean, if they pull hate there's no reason to not let them use 6 shadows. When they do it often it helps with MP conservation a lot.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

/noobmode

I don't know how to wrok the parse. I used to use DVS. This one is confusing and the site makes no sense!!!

/em calls the Elite Beat Agents.

HEEEEAAAAAAALLLPP!!!

Anyway, I'm excited about exping. I have 4/5 of my AF now (Give a shoutout to the BEST THF and NIN and WAR and MNK on Gilgamesh, Zexx). And all I'm missing is the coffer from Garlaige..

I'm definitely going to be going Macro crazy. I just can't imagine NOT having on the +4 Enmity when I voke and Flash.

[Omni]

Re: Midgame

throwing a few random things together:
1) Most people suck.
2) the +21 attack was an option for under 30. At that level, that's not far from the benefit of attack food (Meat jerky caps @30). Yes, it certainly will help.
3) I hope your PLDs aren't meriting in HP gear...
Armando is just trying to say that it does help. And Armando's parses through the 60s are nice, but he's right for other levels as well. Mobs don't even start hitting hard 'til 50 anyway. Just because you don't have Armando in your party, Omni, doesn't mean it can't be done.
Did I mention...
1) Most people suck.

Right. Maybe I dont have Armando in my PT but then again, most PTs dont have me either.
The -21 atk is from the use of defender, which is not under 30 for a pld. It's at 50+, which was the lvl range wishie was talking about.
I havent said anything about dd pld not being possible but to make it worth while at the cost of not holding hate and soaking more mp, i dont see it.

I still prefer the hp/enmity pld because they are the only ones that can not kill dd or mages soaking them with mp within the first 10min. I had another pld last night in a merit. We were meriting off (i hope no one ever has the pleasure) treants in mire. Still not buying it. : \

Armando: I understand, it's fine. I rush through posts at times too.

I'm gonna parse some results next time. Since all my PTs the past week have been with plds. Should be interesting to share.