Midgame

[Omni]

Re: Midgame

bring out the gimp! as Zed would say...
no more playing checkers on renarudo's body when hes eating dirt

though, you're right about 21 attack not being a trivial amount. however, what does that actually translate into numbers for a pld when all your other equip are not geared to attack? that +21 attack really does end up being trivial. it's sorta like me on mnk wearing no dd gear but having o.kote.

[Zempten]

Re: Midgame

For reall Wish? I kemeber being in Kuftal Tunnel @ 50 and they were hitting from 50/60 up to 100. Yeah >.> Defeintly overcamping there though

Just to clarify, you don't ever use Defender + Defense Food? I guess what I'm asking is if Defender and Defense Food is interchangable? As in if I use Defender can I eat Sushi while maintaining DMG taken?

Also last night I was in a PT with a SAM, RNG, and MNK and the only way I could keep hate steadily was equipping a Mermaid Ring and using a High Breath Mantle . . . . I hit for 0 most of the time.

Just wondering, how else would I be able to hold hate while NOT hitting for 0?

I know Hi Break Mantle reduces DMG. Also spamming my MP wasn't an option since there wasn't a RDM and I tried to keep myself at White HP for the 2MP/tick. I did the whole Sentinel on one fight(Provoke, Cures, WS, and Flash when Sentinet is about 2 to 3 seconds from wearing off), Shield Bash on 2nd fight, and 3rd or 4th fight would just be mainly Cure III me at start (Cure 2 as required during fight), provoke, and Flash routine.

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Actually, at 24 with the gear I mentioned, there's not much more you can add. I forgot to mention Republic Subligar if you don't mind looking horrible. It's only 2 Defense less than Chain Hose. But other than that what's left? Battle Gloves, Leaping Boots and Emperor's Hairpin?

On my 68 PLD I have most of the important slots dedicated to Attack/Accuracy as well. Haubergeon, Amemet Mantle, double Woodsmans or Woodsman + Jelly Ring depending on how hard I'm being hit, Assault Earring, Life Belt, and R.G. Collar. Feet slot options are a joke, leg options are mediocre at best so I'm not giving up my +2 enmity there either, I can't equip Bomb Core. The one slot that could be a noticeable improvement is Valkyrie's Mask. Actually, I should go buy one now that I have spare money.

Either way you're kinda looking at it from the wrong perspective. Even if a DD PLD didn't devote half or more his slots to DD gear, you can't dismiss it as being trivial simply because you won't do as much damage as a DD. Look at the bigger picture. What are the other options? More VIT? A handful more Defense? The extra Acc/Attack makes a heck of a lot more difference than the VIT will. You do more damage, hold hate better (which in turn lets the DDs do more damage,) and kill faster, whereas the full defense set takes a bit less damage per hit.

EDIT: My bad, missed this somehow.

Just to clarify, you don't ever use Defender + Defense Food? I guess what I'm asking is if Defender and Defense Food is interchangable? As in if I use Defender can I eat Sushi while maintaining DMG taken?

Also last night I was in a PT with a SAM, RNG, and MNK and the only way I could keep hate steadily was equipping a Mermaid Ring and using a High Breath Mantle . . . . I hit for 0 most of the time.

Just wondering, how else would I be able to hold hate while NOT hitting for 0?

In short, no. I tried it once and my damage dropped sharply. It's not worth it in my opinion. By the way, High Breath Mantle doesn't lower your damage, where did you get that idea?

[Omni]

Re: Midgame

Right. At 50 where he's at now, again, i still dont see it being any worth his while. While I'm not dismissing it because you wouldnt do as much as a full-time DD because that's just not realistic. I'm dismissing it because as zempten nicely pointed out, hitting for 0 or single digits then hitting for that+5? is really just not that significant to warrant the +21atk you mentioned before.

An interesting point you bring up about doing more dd helps the pt overall. I was in a merit pt in mamook last night and (lately, quite a few pld) our pld went all DD gear. sadly, his vorpals were not breaking 300 and well, his hate holding was just poor from the getgo. I know merit pt dynamics are a bit different than an IT++ pt but idea is the same. Where does all this extra atk/acc actually make a difference? It's surely not visible by eyeballing it. Perhaps parsers will reveal that hey! theres a jump in dmg done but in the end, when the mob is bouncing around from the start and hate is all over the place. It makes you think does it really even help?

Funny enough, the pld wanted to go back to town and change to /nin and dual wield his joytoy and some other sword that i cant remember. he's -supposedly- pretty well merited galka pld too. 143 merits according to his search comment. /nin was even more of a disaster. no hate holding what so ever. I was on mnk/nin using sushi of all things and I'd be pulling hate 4 rounds after his initial flash.

I'm not here to bash pld. they allow me to do a lot of things a nin wouldnt. they allow me to go mnk/war or rng/war w/o the fear dying in the first 5 minutes of a pt. I just havent experienced a dd or dd-leaning pld that has done any better as his primary job than a hp/mp/enmity pld in any level range.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

Idk, Zempten is on drugs. And SHEESH, Armando. Is that the gear choice you use because you chain the VTish area mobs?

I can't really imagine switching out my AF a whole heck of a lot, and instead of spending my money on the Hauby, I'd do it on a wealth of other gear (rings, that earring you mentioned, and the collar)

Edit:
Omni, I Too noticed that a lot of ppl are generally sucky. Like the DRGs who DD in that Slow% + gear, instead of switching it out statwise.

Anyway, unless I'm mistaken, don't PLD have among the highest STR in the game, in addition to the High Sword skill, and the fact that the higher-tiered Broadswords aren't too far off from certain Axes?

Our job abilities aren't tailored to DDing, but it's sad to see that PLDs are barely "sub par" when they "try" to go all out.

I'd be depressed if my vorpals couldn't break 300 on VTs as a PLD/NIN geared for DD.

He needs to quit.

[Zempten]

Re: Midgame

I don't know. I just overheard it in a LS so I just assumed it was true. My bad if that's the case.

As far as PLD's DD . . . my DD really depends on my PT to be honest. I can parse anywhere from 5% to 16%. I'm not really geared towards DD either and I try to avoid Defender if possible as well - still on stuff like crabs I'm hitting for 0 - 5 MOST of the time. I guess having 4/4 Critical Merits helps some, but I don't see my DDing as a tank come close to my NIN which was always around 23% to 35% (I played the elemental wheel NIN though).

I agree that recently most of my PT members SUCK. No accuracy food at all. No accuracy is food is okay, but then there are those who use atk but have no accuracy gear either. No accuracy food? No accuracy gear? Makes my job pretty easy. However when I do get jobs that do eat their food or are geared correctly my job is more "fun".

I'm going to throw this out there now though. At 55, when camping Colibri's becomes the main thing for like 10 lvls or more - Defender is a must I take it? Cause it's not like eatting food is going to do you jack squat seeing as they take it every 2 to 4 fights.

Also, I'm surprised you can take off your Parade Gorget. The MP seems really important to me as I rarely have RDMs in my PT but I always have BRDs that can't spare the time to cast Ballad for me cause they are running off to get the next mob. The most I can do is ask that they try to keep me at white HP for the extra tick. I guess the Sanction Refresh is a good substitue? or is it that staying in white HP is impossible at your lvl?

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Omni: A good DD PLD doesn't hit for 0. Zempten was using Sushi + Defender, and if I'm not mistaken it was against crabs to boot. My average damage per swing is about 40.

Rena: Yeah, that's pretty much my setup. I use it for everything, including ITs. The only exception is that I don't use sushi when the party overhunts, but I'll still do it for low/normal ITs. But even if I don't use the sushi I stay with the Haub/Woodsmans/etc. on.

Anyway, unless I'm mistaken, don't PLD have among the highest STR in the game, in addition to the High Sword skill, and the fact that the higher-tiered Broadswords aren't too far off from certain Axes?

2nd highest, tied with MNK and I think a few other jobs. 1st place goes to WAR and DRK. And yes, we're the only job with an A+ in a one-handed weapon, and from 50 on bastard swords are actually stronger than axes.

Back to Omni: Attached are a few parse files for those that are curious. I didn't write what everyone's jobs were, but I was basically PLD/WAR with sushi, usually there was a BRD, weapon was Save the Queen. I don't think I did too shabby damage-wise. Make of them what you will.

Oh, yeah. Not to be rude but...

I know Hi Break Mantle reduces DMG.

Wtf?

[Zempten]

Re: Midgame

Oh, yeah. Not to be rude but...

I know Hi Break Mantle reduces DMG.

Wtf?

In short, no. I tried it once and my damage dropped sharply. It's not worth it in my opinion. By the way, High Breath Mantle doesn't lower your damage, where did you get that idea?

Hm...."not to be rude"? Restating what you've already said a second time in a more condensending manner isn't rude? Since your going to be like that though, excuse me. My apologies for being mislead.

Anyways, I can't look at your parses. What program do you use to open it. I use DVSParse so I'm not sure what to use to open it.

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

Hm...."not to be rude"? Restating what you've already said a second time in a more condensending manner isn't rude? Since your going to be like that though, excuse me. My apologies for being mislead.

Whaaa? It was nothing personal in the first place. Omni seemed to be under the impression that the average DD PLD hits for 0 and that's just not the case. Your example wasn't typical and I was letting him know that. But what does that have to do with my question about your statement that High Breath Mantle lowers damage?

My bad about the parses, should've specified. I use Tazzylynn's parser. You can find it here. Once it's installed run it and choose File -> Parse Gathered Log -> choose one of the files in the .zip. Don't know if DVS Parse can open them, I've never used it.

[Zempten]

Re: Midgame

Taking it to PMs b/c derailing a thread isn't my kind of thing.

Thanks I'll look at them.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

Hey, no one derails my threads on my watch >_>;

Well, Omni can. But that's cause he's Taru.

OH YEAH! Nice seeing you at Signet the other day, Zempten, lol. Thought you fell off the edge of the Earth.

All yesterday I was doing my AF, or, at least getting the hard parts out the way. I sucessfully got my Feet, and I have the Castle Zvahl, Garlaige, Eldieme and Beadeaux Coffers.

Coffer hunting I can do on my own time, I suppose. I can get the Eldieme and Castle coffers by myself on RDM. The Beadeaux and Garlaige I'll need to be on PLD for, but at least Beadeaux I can potentially solo.

For my PLD AF Body, the fight I'll need to do in Davoi, do I need to be PLD Main to activate it?

[Armando]

Re: Midgame

I don't think you had to be PLD main. Also, you only need to fight one of them (can't remember which of the two.) You can train the NMs to Monastic Cavern, despawn the entire train and pull the one you have to fight.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

Yeah read that on the Wiki. I'll Sub PLD, pop it, then train with my buffs, and then pop Sentinel when Stoneskin falls, hoping that Sentinel and Phalanx will be enough damage mitigation for me to survive. I think Three-Eyed is the one, and hopefully just having the quest flagged will be sufficient enough to spawn the NMs.

[Celeal]

Re: Midgame

...
Back to Omni: Attached are a few parse files for those that are curious. I didn't write what everyone's jobs were, but I was basically PLD/WAR with sushi, usually there was a BRD, weapon was Save the Queen. I don't think I did too shabby damage-wise. Make of them what you will.

...

Quote from the log in 05-27-2007 Bibiki.prs:

"(Armando) Since Hate's not an issue I'm going to be popping Cover on WS for Save the Queen's latent, ok?"

That is awesome XD, very cool indeed

I just scroll part of the log file. For damage mitigation, I don't notice any much difference between Armando's setup and the traditional party PLD setup. After reading this log, I am convinced.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Midgame

How'd you D/L it? I don't see anything on the site