Ouch.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Ouch.

Probably had a THF to open fight with SATA.

[Armando]

Re: Ouch.

Regarding Gaia Doublet: Yes, you could get it. You could also not. The difference is small. It's all personal preference, looks, costs, and a little bit of superstition. Seriously, whichever you use is fine.

And yeah, it's pretty much a MNK problem. But, just to make sure you aren't missing any tricks: Are you making full use of Cover? How about Sentinel? Sentinel almost ensures hate is on you for the rest of the fight. Are you using your WS as an extra hate tool? Are Woodsman Rings (or a Woodsman + Venerer) within your budget? That extra 4-5% hit rate will help your hate. Also, like Itazura suggested, if the mobs aren't high IT, you could try the Sushi route. I don't have experience with using sushi this early but considering Refresh is at its strongest right now, it could work.

Also, for whatever it's worth, (in my opinion) PLD tanking is easy when people aren't total retards. And even when people do stupid things it's still easy, even if frustrating. A PLD can only do so much, and there's not that much for a PLD to do.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ouch.

Didn't use Sentinel at all for the duration of the PT. The only times I had/noticed "problems" - if you want to call them anything - were when the THF did SATA at the end of the fight off the MNK, and I had to first voke at the start of the next.

I noticed that the MNK and I had similar hate values bekause after one WS from him, and maybe a few missed Cures on my part and the mob was facing him.

But for the most part, the THF was able to SATA off the MNK a few times for damage/TP or whatever the freak THFs do, and the mob wouldn't turn. So it's all ok, I suppose, but my concerns were what would happen if a THF wasn't there.

MNKs are a friggin broken job. Them and SAMs. -_-;; But I guess more enmity in the front, no matter who, gives less to the back.

Or maybe he had Merits, because he was definitely doing Raging Fists before 41...

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Ouch.

As mentioned get the monk behind you and use cover to snatch some emnity and if possible have a thf who can SATA and push extra emnity onto you. Thats been my experience around lvl 38 (though I am a galka PLD)

Nit-picky thing, but Cover doesn't "snatch" enmity (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Cover).

Also, and I'm going to be cautious about this, but why does the OP spell "can't" as "kan't?"

[Armando]

Re: Ouch.

Doesn't sound like you had "problems" often. You should be able to fix it up with Sentinel (the ultimate hate-grabber...just slap on a Cure and/or a Flash after it and watch the mob stay on you) or Cover. If you can anticipate the situation, that's great. If you can actually coordinate with the MNK so he lets you know beforehand when he's going to WS or whatever, then you're set.

Hell, you should always strive to use those abilities even if you manage to hold hate fine without them throughout all the party. They (especially Sentinel) let DDs periodically do something that would normally be extremely reckless and get away with it (I'm looking at you, DRKs.) That and 30 secs of practically 0 damage is incredibly sexy.

It'll get "worse" as you go up in the sense that you'll start seeing crazier numbers each time, but you'll be able to stay on par. If you do the DD PLD thing in the 60's (not possible in every party, but in many it is) you can practically hold hate with Autoattack and Flashes.

[Jarre]

Re: Ouch.

Why was the thf SATA'ing with the mnk and not you the tank? In Crawlers nest Thf always SATA'd with me and I hardly lost hate. Thf SATA I provoke then flash and I get the mobs attention for a long time.

[Armando]

Re: Ouch.

He's saying sometimes the THF would use SATA at the end of the fight, and since the mob was already on him, the THF would SATA the MNK instead, presumably finishing off the mob.

[Akashimo]

Re: Ouch.

Hmmm, like some of the previous statements I follow in the same jobs there

As a monk focusing on maxing out DoT and WS, I'd generally wait until the mob is 60-50% in hp before ws, unless in a sc with a SATAer. Though i can still steal hate w/o having to ws >_>;; And no, I don't have enmity gear/merits.

Thf, SATA at start, preferrably w/ ws, otherwise, like the others said, as finisher on the other dd.

Pld. Start with Flash, followed by Voke and either Shield Bash or Sentinal, which ever is up. Cure III and just voke and flash when needed, saving the 5 minute JA for the next mob at the start. Which unless my static samuria 2 hours or the blu goes apesh*t on casting headbutt and other enmity spells -.-;; Other than that its really hard to loose hate unless someone really wants to pull it off you.

[Ameroth]

Re: Ouch.

the blu goes apesh*t

Good thing that asterisk is there so I don't know what that word is supposed to be.

------

On topic:

I see that you mentioned rarely using Sentinel. That's not so much that it's bad... It's just not good at all. Sentinel is an incredible JA that not only decreases damage you take, but also gives an incredible spike in enmity. Using Sentinel as often as possible will surely make your life easier.

Shield Bash is another helpful tool. It's uses include interrupting an enemy before it casts a big spell, stunning an enemy, turning the mob if you have just barely lost hate, or just a useful tool to help keep hate in between cures, flash, and JAs. Use it.

Then there's the obvious use of Provoke, Flash, and cures. Voke as often as possible (an exception would be near the end of a battle if you're the first provoke and the puller doesn't like to rest), and flash the mob when you can. I generally don't use flash while Sentinel is in effect. Seems pointless to blind the enemy if it hitting you for low damage increases hate.

Another helpful bit of advice is to use the /recast macro command. I have one macro that I filled all 6 lines with /recast. One for provoke, flash, sentinel, shield bash, cover, and rampart (Awesome ass JA when you get it).

Oh also, make sure you are using Defender. It lasts as long as the recast timer is and gives a pretty good boost in defense. Very helpful.

Lastly, unless you're fighting Colibiri (which you aren't yet), food is veeeeery helpful. I've been using boiled crab, tavnazian tacos, and any other food that increases DEF and/or VIT.

Hope I didn't forget anything. My main job is Paladin and I love it. I strive to be the best tank I can be. In reality, it's not all the difficult of a job as long as you know what you're doing and have a competent party. And remember that a good Paladin knows that they can't keep hate 100% of the time. Do what you can though. When that damage-happy mnk pulls hate, use Cover. When a DD does a WS and starts getting hurt, throw a Cure II or III at them (I have macros for targetting party members with Cures) to not only help the main healer, but to pull more hate. Use you're head and you'll do fine.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ouch.

One of my past static party had PLD, THF, and MNK, for the front line. What the PLD did was to Flash as the MNK used Provoke to set up SATA, to reduce the damage the MNK takes, as well as to make sure he doesn't fall behind in enmity too much. Curing the MNK while he's taking a beating setting up SATA is also helpful.

Also, if the MNK is that damaging, he might as well Provoke-Boost again if the THF wants to use SATA mid battle, so the THF can SATA on you instead. Heck, you may be able to go easier on enmity food/gear and use more defense or offense orientated gear or food if the THF can SATA mid battle on you.

* * *

I generally don't use flash while Sentinel is in effect. Seems pointless to blind the enemy if it hitting you for low damage increases hate.

Hmm. I do it a lot on PLD, actually. It's just easier to pile up enmity when you can (Sentinel increases actions' enmity), instead of struggle to get the monster back after the DD's use WS.

In the OP's case, where he had a THF who would SATA off the MNK, I'd say it'd be a good idea to make sure he can toss in Provoke, Flash, and a full strength Cure II or two while Sentinel is up.

[Ameroth]

Re: Ouch.

Hmm. I do it a lot on PLD, actually. It's just easier to pile up enmity when you can (Sentinel increases actions' enmity), instead of struggle to get the monster back after the DD's use WS.

I find that using sentinel, then a cure II or III shortly after, and finally a Voke before sentinel wears is just as effective and saves flash for slightly later. Honestly though this all really depends on your play style. Figure out what works for you in different situations and work with that.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ouch.

Oh sheesh, I didn't want to give EVERY detail, but ok..

For the most part, after SATA lands on me, I Voke, flash, use whichever 5 min ability is up, and I start curing when necessary. Repeat as timers go down or based on party flow.

Over long fights, I find that it's generally impossible for hate to be ripped from me, but on short quick ones, the Melee's are usually going batshyte crazy.

Sentinel is AWESOME. Shield Bash is usually saved for Goblin Bombs, but I generally use it and Sentinel based on what's up.

I also throw on Berserk while Sentinel is active and usually try to capitalize on that with a WS at the time. Holy Circle I only use if I'm bored.

Yellow Mage, me spelling "can't" as "kan't" sometimes is an old habit (just something I picked up from being a NUPE) that I try to avoid doing on forums where people might generally not understand why the fudge I'm doing so. Essentially, it's not uncommon to see me replace the sharp "c" sound with a "k".

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ouch.

For the most part, after SATA lands on me, I Voke, flash, use whichever 5 min ability is up, and I start curing when necessary. Repeat as timers go down or based on party flow.

It's better to Flash even before the SATA, to reduce the damage on MNK/first provoker. (MNK can hold the critter with Provke and punches.)

I also throw on Berserk while Sentinel is active and usually try to capitalize on that with a WS at the time.

One trick I learned from Armando: when you're not using Defender full time, you can use Berserk, WS, then throw up Defender. Next time you have enough TP, click off Defender, WS, then click off Berserk. (Doesn't work for Spirits Within, obviously.)

I've combined Sentinel and Berserk as well, but for some reason I tend to forget to click off Berserk or throw up Defender afterwards, so I tend not to do it very often.

[Armando]

Re: Ouch.

Too tired to write a full post right now. Regarding Flash and Sentinel, though - keep in mind that you can always just cast Flash a few seconds before Sentinel wears, and you get the best of both worlds.

And Berserk + Sentinel + WS is lovely. Just wanted to say that.

[Akashimo]

Re: Ouch.

Berserk and sentinel for ws, hmm i gotta try that next time i level pld.