Rampart/Sentinel Changes

[Armando]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Ok, I've found that this does stack with gear, but sadly, by multiplication. This was done with an Earth Staff on.

And yeah, 4:10 is what I've read. By the way, the no-interrupt-on-shield-blocks aspect of Shield Mastery is very, very nice.

[Karinya]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

And that was without earth staff, jelly ring, anything like that?

I wonder what happens if you go over 100% damage reduction... do you start absorbing HP from attacks like that mammet special ability?

(Edit: Damn. Oh well, 92% reduction is still pretty nice.)

Heck, you don't even need Invincible for Seiryu anymore. Sentinel would stop him just fine, if you have enough hate. No more needing to shadowbind Gomory and Zaebos either.

Now imagine this combined with Noctoshield... you could just laugh at dynamis monks.

[Armando]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Damn. I totally forgot about Noctoshield. That would be sooooooo badass.

[Taskmage]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Don't forget Phalanx II and Spartan Hoplon.

[lionx]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Whoa this is so damn SICK X3 *glee* However i still wonder how long Sentinel actually lasts...is it still very short? @.@

[Loial]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

I don't think there is any disagreement that damage reduction from Sentinel is nice change. But, I still don't see Sentinel or Rampart pulling hate like they used to. Even the enmity bonus on Sentinel doesn't seem to be much.

I think that if a PLD were to "old" Sentinel + Provoke + Flash they'd have more hate than "new" Sentinel + Provoke + Flash.

But, if this change was intended, I think we can all agree that Sentinel is like a mini-Invincible now. So, it is a worthwhile tradeoff. But, I can't say the same about Rampart. I'd rather have Rampart rip hate the way it used to than the current Magic Shield buff.

Going from having three five-minute hate spike abilities to only one (Warcry) wasn't exactly what I was expecting.

[Celeal]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

With this changes, does that means for every 5 minutes, Healer and PLD has 30 seconds greatly reduce MP usage for curing in exp. parties?

With generally un-interrupted JA (unless stunned), Shield Block prevent interrupt, Auto-Refresh, high hate output, cheaper spending on tools/gear, PLD tank is now pretty much very low risk with very high reward. IMHO, any more buff on PLD may break the game balance.

[nanatsu]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Really? The duration on Sentinel is still very low. The recast is still very high. I would've rather seen it act more like berserk with lesser damage reduction. I've not done the math, but on the surface it looks like it won't be enough to contend with nin for exp parties. Endgame is a different story, but for exp? 30 seconds of damage mitigation every 5 minutes just doesn't cut it vs always on all the time utsusemi. Shield block change did a lot more for pld in exp terms and unless I'm missing something, I don't see this making exp pt invites for pld any better....

EDIT: And I do hope I'm missing something because I miss plds in exp.

[Rai]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Damn, time to start meritting down the recast timer on Sentinel.

[Celeal]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Really? The duration on Sentinel is still very low. The recast is still very high. I would've rather seen it act more like berserk with lesser damage reduction. I've not done the math, but on the surface it looks like it won't be enough to contend with nin for exp parties. Endgame is a different story, but for exp? 30 seconds of damage mitigation every 5 minutes just doesn't cut it vs always on all the time utsusemi. Shield block change did a lot more for pld in exp terms and unless I'm missing something, I don't see this making exp pt invites for pld any better....

EDIT: And I do hope I'm missing something because I miss plds in exp.

Do you really think Utsusemi is on all time? A double attack from mob and follow by a special move can knock out 3 shadows within a few seconds already... plus those attack that ignore shadows directly or strip multiple shadows at once? Issue of mistake or being interrupted?

30 seconds for 90% damage reduction in every 5 minutes, is indeed like a mini version of PLD's 2hr except little hate. The PLD only require to press a macro or activate it from menu, have no need to worry about being interrupted like casting Utsusemi or Cure, and it works for fast hitting mob or slow hard hitting mob... the mp that is "saved" in that 30 seconds can carry on to the next battles...

For traditional exp. parties, with all these PLD update, PLD should not have issue for tanking. If the party is properly builded (with refresher, healer, etc), I think PLD tank is superior in a lot of ways: flexible mob/camp choice, high hate control, now downtime is even less issue.

For TP burn parties, we have to test and see~ but we don't even have a solo tank in TP burn parties to begin with. If you expect PLD to solo tank in TP burns after the update, then I think there is a misunderstanding. Even NIN does not solo tank in TP-burns, everyone bounce hate in the party.

[Karinya]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

One more trick for the new Sentinel: have someone in the party cast Diamondhide or Earthen Ward as you are activating it. It's pretty unlikely that physical damage will break through it at all before the duration is up (except maybe from certain HNMs), which means 30 seconds of uninterruptibility by damage. The potential uses are considerable.

PLD/RDM (or /WHM) can do this solo, too, if they can get a stoneskin cast off. Between flash, shield blocks stopping interruption and some luck it might be possible.

@Taskmage: I don't think multiple phalanx effects stack, so you can have only one of /RDM phalanx, phalanx II, noctoshield or spartan hoplon, but it is good to have the other options. In fact the new sentinel could be a new reason to bother getting phalanx II at all... it's really not that good normally but when you combine it with new Sentinel, it could be better.

[nanatsu]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Do you really think Utsusemi is on all time? A double attack from mob and follow by a special move can knock out 3 shadows within a few seconds already... plus those attack that ignore shadows directly or strip multiple shadows at once? Issue of mistake or being interrupted?
30 seconds for 90% damage reduction in every 5 minutes, is indeed like a mini version of PLD's 2hr except little hate. The PLD only require to press a macro or activate it from menu, have no need to worry about being interrupted like casting Utsusemi or Cure, and it works for fast hitting mob or slow hard hitting mob... the mp that is "saved" in that 30 seconds can carry on to the next battles...
For traditional exp. parties, with all these PLD update, PLD should not have issue for tanking. If the party is properly builded (with refresher, healer, etc), I think PLD tank is superior in a lot of ways: flexible mob/camp choice, high hate control, now downtime is even less issue.
For TP burn parties, we have to test and see~ but we don't even have a solo tank in TP burn parties to begin with. If you expect PLD to solo tank in TP burns after the update, then I think there is a misunderstanding. Even NIN does not solo tank in TP-burns, everyone bounce hate in the party.

We'll just have to see. PLD and NIN playing styles are different. A lot of Nins simply suck at keeping hate, so hate will bounce around no matter what. (I have seen some awesome nins but they are few and far between these days) But pld playstyle keeps hate centered. So while bouncing around is the norm you see in nin tanked tp pts, when a pld shows up, all that goes out the window because pld is soaking up all the dmg. Everyone else subbing /nin at that point is kinda meh, and more people than normal start subbing thf and planting even more hate on the pld.

I too think PLD tank is superior in a lot of ways, but people don't pick pld. because plds take damage. And we all know how much mages hate healing people. Yeah I'm expecting plds to solo tank in TP burns or whatever kind of party they are in, no matter how unfair it seems. Because that's the only real advantage they have over nin and doing it effectively is the only way you'll see an increase in their exp party invite rate in my opinion. Just becasue nins don't solo tank in TP burn party (or in any kind of party actually from what I've seen) doesn't mean that pld is bound by the same weakness, or even should be allowed to be bound by that weakness.

I'm not sure if 30 seconds is enough. I clearly have my reservations, but like you said we'll have to see. I am honestly hoping it IS enough and I really want it to be. Just expressing my doubts.

[Taskmage]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

It hasn't yet, but let's try to avoid turning this into another nin vs pld thread, shall we? I think we've all had about enough of that.

@Taskmage: I don't think multiple phalanx effects stack, so you can have only one of /RDM phalanx, phalanx II, noctoshield or spartan hoplon, but it is good to have the other options. In fact the new sentinel could be a new reason to bother getting phalanx II at all... it's really not that good normally but when you combine it with new Sentinel, it could be better.

I'm pretty sure you're right that Phalanx, Phalanx II, and Noctoshield do not stack. Spartan Hoplon might stack since has its own buff slot as an enchanted item, but that's just a guess. I doubt en-spell enchantments stack with actual en-spells. I just wanted to point out there were other options for zeroing damage if your party was missing a rdm or a smn or both.

This does make Phalanx II somewhat more attractive to merit, but I still think I'll pass on it and leave that buff up to other rdms I play with that are already interested in the spell. Luckily for me I think that's all of them.

[eva00r]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

As BLU/PLD, you takes 180 damage from 1000 needles.

[JP_Ikari]

Re: Rampart/Sentinel Changes

Hey Loial, wondering if you wanted to test this off an HNM (or anyone for that matter). Just wondering how much hate you can lose vs how much hate you can gather with both Rampart and Sentinel. I tested the damage reduction without any -% physicals on the lizards inside Kuftal, and suprisingly, they hit me for about 47-53 without Sentinel and then when i used Sentinel it dropped to 7-12. Kinda hard to figure out but Armando gave a better scenario (1k needles dropping to 100dmg (80 with EStave)). I also tried some spells but couldn't really find a higher tier'd one than the one i got last night, and even with Tier 1 (Thundaga), it did 27 on me while with Rampart it did 0. I need more higher tiered Spells, maybe i'll go camp the higher tier'd mobs to get more tests on this. Can anyone give me more tests on this seeing I just got back after a 1 month and 1 week hiatus off the game (due to drama)

JP