What do Paladin's do wrong?

[DrivenTooFar]

I have a question out there for people who play with Paladins. What are some of the things Paladins do or don't do that make them bad? The reason I am asking this is because a lot of people are impressed with how I play the job. Not only that, but they also run into Paladins that they think are horrible. To me, Paladin is a little challengeing but overall not that hard to play. I don't think I am the best Paladin out there, but many have said that I am one of the better ones.

One thing I do make sure of is that I keep up to date gear. It isn't all +1 stuff but I do make sure that I get good stuff, a lot of which is suggested by the members of this site. I also know how to time my cures and I have a nice cycle with my hate tools. Of course, I think alot of my success is from the excellent parties I usually have and there seems to be a lot of that on Alexander.

So please share your Paladin stories so I can see why people think I do a good job. After all, I pretty much never party with Paladins anymore so I don't know what others are like.

[Jei]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

I PT with this one PLD once, after battle, instead of healing, he would be casting Cure 1 (at level 50) until everyone's full health.... wasting a lot of MP. Plus he could have cast cure 2-3 at the begin of battle to grab extra hate instead. -.-

[raidenn]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

I knew a japanese player who used a Gsword at Xp parties (level 70s), wears Scorpion Harness and an Optical hat, provokes once in every fight, never uses defender, rampart or cover. Rarely cures himself too.

[Khevn]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

This is like opening Pandora's Box. Tank takes a person with reasonable intelligence to play and a desire to be a tank. Some people step into paladin, and at 30-35 when our dmg starts dropping off and our mitigation starts going up they realize they don't want to be a sponge. It takes a specific type of person to be a tank. If you don't desire keeping others alive, and you just want to kill things your already probably going to be a terrible tank. You replace the want of LARGE damage with the need to keep the monster on you at all times no matter how hard that mob gets hit by others. Alot of people get bored with this very fast. It just isn't as "exciting" to other people.

Me I love the paladin. I've always played the tank. In all MMO's, anyone can be a damage whore, but it takes special type of person to be a wall to protect everyone in the party.

Hence, there's alot of terrible tanks.

Lol the nostalgia, Almost makes me want to come back.... anyone need a 75 pld in midgar?

[tdh]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

I'd say some PLDs are very needy, and some PLDs seem to carry around all that MP for show.

Some PLDs seems to think their MP is ONLY for Flash. So the fights going right alone and they won't even bother to Cure themselves to stay alive. Some of these guys are managing to keep hate with just damage, Flash and Provoke, others aren't keeping hate for squat and stay right on the edge of dieing.

The needy ones are the one that have macrod "/party Haste plz" and "/party Refresh plz." In the middle of crowd control because of a bad pull, and as soon as their Refresh wears off there goes the "needy macro."

My only other "issue" with PLDs is really a non-issue. PLDs in the late 50's are notorous for "Over tanking." So it makes it difficult for Skillchains with THF set ups. I love when a PLD holds hate so I don't have to hold back, but at the same time I'd like to be able to turn a mob for SATA.

[Khevn]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills haha

[tdh]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills haha

I agree! I've seen some PLDs who can skirt that fine line like a pro. Always being #1 on the hate list, but allowing somebody to grab hate in instances like that.

Watching a PLD keep just enough hate so a WAR doesn't take hate from their DPS but a Provoke and Mistral Axe is enough to turn the mob so a DRK can Spinning Slash for ~1k is truly a sight to be seen.

[Mhurron]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

I have a question out there for people who play with Paladins. What are some of the things Paladins do or don't do that make them bad?

Now I could do the obvious and complain about bad tanks I've partied with, but I won't.

Actually, a lot of times when your complimented on your skill, its not that they have had a lot of bad PLD, but just that every good one is a godsend. There are no better parties then one with a tank that knows their job and knows how to use their skills to do it. Most of the time you're being thanked not for doing a better job then others, but just doing a good job in the first place.

Take the compliment and feel good about it, your focus and understanding of your job were noticed and appreciated, but be careful not to let it go to your head

-Mhurron, apparently as of yesterday, UberRDM. I promise it won't go to my head.

[Armando]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

Hm. This is a toughie. In my opinion, being a PLD/WAR in a traditional EXP party is a very easy role to play. Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP. If you can tell that a given Paladin flat out sucks that person probably hasn't got a clue about the game in general, not just the Paladin job. Just about the only habit unique to Paladin that would warrant calling a player a bad Paladin would be going into overhate in a situation in which someone else needs to turn the mob *cough SATA cough*.

Because of that, and the fact that when I'm taking up a job that isn't PLD I'm usually tanking anyways or just soloing, I've hardly had any negative experiences with other Paladins. So, instead of mentioning things you might catch a bad PLD doing, or funny anecdotes of bad parties, I'll mention a few things a good PLD does.

- A good Paladin uses Cover often when he loses hate, and politely negotiates with the DDs so that the whole alignment process runs smoothly.
- A good Paladin can save his JAs by knowing when he's lost hate by only a little, and turning the mob with a Cure, Flash, or Provoke instead.
- A good Paladin understands that losing hate is inevitable.
- A good Paladin understands that shadows are superior to simply taking hits in the face, and shares his tanking duty with the NINs and WAR/NINs, either accidentally or deliberately. That is, a good PLD understands that if the WAR/NIN just took hate, it's better to let him use his shadows and save the healer some MP, than turning the mob immediately and taking those 6 hits himself, and on top of that possibly wasting JAs in order to turn the mob. As a matter of fact, I encourage the WAR/NINs in my parties to turn the mob from time to time.
- A good Paladin doesn't pester the mages for Haste and Refresh; he (or she) asks for it politely, and is grateful when he/she gets them.
- A good Paladin understands why Flash is an incredibly wonderful spell, and encourages White Mages to Flash as much as possible too.
- A good Paladin understands the finer points of hate and targets, and knows how to tank through multiple mobs simultaneously.
- A good Paladin tries to learn as much as possible about the game in general.
- A good Paladin understands that the word "tank" is nothing but a label, and that the Paladin job is a lot more versatile than that. In other words, a good Paladin understands that there's more to it than just whoring VIT and ignoring everything else, and will change his gear according to wether he's fighting VTs or high ITs. On VTs, we can take a much more balanced approach and actually focus on our offense to a certain extenct.
- A good Paladin can line up properly when working with THFs and BRDs/CORs.
- A good Paladin understands that dying first isn't always the smartest option.

Hope that helps :3

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills haha

I hate inferior PLDs.
I static with a kick butt PLD.
But I've partied with ones that should just play other jobs.

Any PLD that loses hate to a BRD, even through SATA, should be SHOT IN THE HEAD.

That's right. I said it. HEADSHOT.

You know that drill we learned in Dunes? The 15 second reminder to VOKE?! It applies well when you're trying to do your job as a PLD...

But yeah. I'm glad I static with a PLD who knows how awesome it is to have a good THF at their disposal. Good PLDs understand that TA is their best friend when keeping hate. Good PLDs also understand that protecting their teammates comes first before anything.

Also. A Good PLD parties with Good Members. Because a Good PLD can't shine with a gimp mage. And a Good Mage can't shine witth a gimp PLD, or a gimp tank for that matter. And a Good THF can't shine with a gimp PLD/DD.

[Cometgreen]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP.

Yet so many paladins are guilty of this. Granted, it might just be that you remember the really bad paladins, but I've seen quite a few that don't seem to understand why paladins get all those cure spells.

[Loial]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP.

Yes, but knowing "when" to throw around Cure IV's and use your job abilities makes a difference.

[Kurb]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

True but thats what tanks are essentially there for.To take the damage so other players with crap def don't have to.
Unless your talking about a NIN now thats a different story but if they get hit they'll know all about it where as a PLD can simply heal himself if his timing is right.
Personally I had a hard time getting my cures timed off but after lvl 17 it all came to me.......PLD's RULE

[KoukiRyu]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

Any PLD that loses hate to a BRD, even through SATA, should be SHOT IN THE HEAD.

Err...you know a BRD could rape hate off a good PLD in a matter of seconds if they tried, right? 2x Mazurka and if he/she was /WAR a voke, and the PLD could only take hate back after Invincible. >_> If you don't believe me, go get a BRD and have them use 2x Mazurka while 2 MNK's pummel a mob and WS it...and see if they take hate for a second. I dunno if you said BRD as a mistake, but I promise you that a BRD is the ultimate hate holder.

Now I wonder how many people are going to wonder if I'm on drugs, or how I came up with these conclusions. If you don't believe me, just go and test it, 2x Mazurka is all the BRD really needs, /WAR is just bonus, but /NIN works even better.

Edit: Sorry I totally changed the topic there...just when I saw him say BRD, I wanted to speak up before he thought about murdering any PLD's for losing hate to BRD's. >_>

[Celeal]

Re: What do Paladin's do wrong?

For SATA, sometimes it is hard for PLD to control hate if the SATA~SC opener (who suppose to turn the mob) deal inconsistent damage/hate or overall lack of damage. The situation is worst if we combine a weak SATA~SC opener with a strong BLM, or RNG who is not part of SATA~SC.

It is less chaotic to do SATA~SC at the beginning of fight: TP at 100% before the battle begins. Puller pulls mob to camp, Trick partner gain initially have hate, tank + SATA~SC closer line up, SATA~SC and transfer hate to tank.

In this method, there is no need to turn the mob in the middle of the fight. Tank can increase the hate threshold after the initial SATA~SC, for the DD to go all out and kill the mob ASAP. The trick is to have both SATA and 100% TP ready for next battle.