Invincible

[Loial]

Re: Invincible

Invincible used to be absolute hate for almost the full duration. I don't believe it is any longer. From my experience, it seems to only act as powerful as an extra provoke.

Let's not recommend the OP to be so quick as to hit your 2-hour just because you lose hate and don't have any hate tools immediately ready. That is probably not the best use for it.

Shadowbind/Bind is a good way to counter Hundred Fists without using a 2-hour.

[Slip]

Re: Invincible

Another use for Invincible is exploring, especially for missions or quests where you have to go somewhere hyper dangerous. Bring some method of Warping with you, either /Blm, Treat Staff II (or is it Trick2?) or even just an Instant Warp scroll and you'll be able to escape cleanly from virtually any bad situation.

In terms of hate gen, Invincible is about the best you'll get but it's definitely not infinite. I've lost hate to another Paladin after I Invincibled and he popped all his JAs. He was 10 levels higher than me, had on more +Emnity and was hitting for significant damage vs my feeble pokes as well but that's all it took to overcome Invinc + Provoke.

[Celeal]

Re: Invincible

Celeal, that's a nice trick. I've thought of it, but dismissed it quickly since at best you get about 25 MP back. 51+ with a Dark Staff, though...if you're really hurting that much for MP, I could see it being useful, since you could get back 45+ MP.

I forgot to mention "plus" Refresh Very offen after nasty link, or someone DC'ing and such, there can be downtime after the party survive the battle. With Invincible + /heal + Dark Staff, plus Refresh + the healer /heal at the same time, this method really can keep the exp. chain going.

Perfect dodge generates nothing. It's there so you can lolflee to safety while all your friends are dieing, like a thief

I had partied with one THF that really did this BS after she pull a link at level 45 in C.N Nest's Beetle Camp. Pull link, scream for zone, Flee, and disband.

The worst thing is the melee RDM does not know how to Sleep the link, and the rest of the party run to zone. I end up using Invincible and ask the RDM to sleep the link, but resisted.

Then I ask the RDM to run away, and I use my Scroll of Instant Warp after I was finally alone. Ends up with me eatting dirt in front of Home Point at Port Jenuo because of the stupid lag... negative experience point gain from that party, great, isn't it? LOL

That was before the Mob despawn MPK "fix" btw, such a train and abandon-party behavior is not acceptable >.> /blist add forever~

[Aeni]

Re: Invincible

Celeal, that's a nice trick. I've thought of it, but dismissed it quickly since at best you get about 25 MP back. 51+ with a Dark Staff, though...if you're really hurting that much for MP, I could see it being useful, since you could get back 45+ MP.

Is this including:

-Autorefresh
-Availability of a VC
-Refresh from a RDM

[Lmnop]

Re: Invincible

Many things can overcome hate of Invincible, but it is still the biggest single boost to enmity in the game, as far as I can tell. Sure, I've pulled hate off invincible using Mighty Strikes' full duration + WS or 2, and sure Hundred Fists will make you the tank after long enough, but those things take time. Those same methods take hate off of Benediction (Mighty Strikes for full duration, then WHM uses Benediction and you just voke and it comes back to you: Priceless). Also, Even a pre-Nerf RNG doing Sidewinder (or 2) + Barrage + EES doesn't take hate off of Invincible, does it? Even though it's probably more damage than I dish out during Mighty Strikes, for some reason their hate gain doesn't seem as astronomical.

[Aeni]

Re: Invincible

I've actually pulled off an invincible paladin with a missed SATA + Spinning Slash + Souleater + Last Resort + Blood Weapon (It was already active for a good 15sec). Yes, believe me, it was an accidental miss because the NIN I was suppose to do that opposite of the paladin moved. Sigh.

[Vyuru]

Re: Invincible

Also, Even a pre-Nerf RNG doing Sidewinder (or 2) + Barrage + EES doesn't take hate off of Invincible, does it? Even though it's probably more damage than I dish out during Mighty Strikes, for some reason their hate gain doesn't seem as astronomical.

I dunno, I think that might be enough hate gain there to take it off of the paladin.

[Aeni]

Re: Invincible

I dunno, I think that might be enough hate gain there to take it off of the paladin.

LOL yeah. Pre-nerf Barrage would do plenty 1K and a PLD that has to contend with that, an 1,800+ slug shot and EES would NEVER be able to hold off that kind of hate.

[Armando]

Re: Invincible

Is this including:

-Autorefresh
-Availability of a VC
-Refresh from a RDM

Nah, just the part you'd recover from resting (12 + 10 for the first tick, 13 + 10 from the second tick.) Most of that other stuff would be there regardless of whether or not you /rest, so I left it out.

And yeah, it may not be infinite but it's definetely the biggest stand-alone hate-grabber in the game. Plus, you should already be high on the hate last anyways. It's pretty reliable for grabbing hate.

[FranckKnight]

Re: Invincible

That's the main 'problem' with high level parties. the PLD's job can be tough to keep hate because of the RNG, SAM and WAR loving their high numbers.

I know their job is doing high damage, and they use everything they have to do so. It results in 1500+ damage that is pretty hard to get hate back from with Flash and Provoke. And as they are doing damage throughout the fight, sometimes even using every JA you have (save for Invincible) won't get hate back immediatly.

Then party members complain that the PLD ain't doing his job. :/

That's the main reason alot of PLD go toward being a bit more DD by the time they reach Merit parties. If you can't keep hate, might as well damage a bit more. And that's also the reason alot of PLD don't use Defender anymore at a certain point. Defender only has uses if you're getting hit, because while you don't have the hate, the point of increasing defense, your damage dealing is nerfed badly for its duration.

[Slip]

Re: Invincible

Invincible is not the answer for Melee's who spam JAs or unleash huge WS's. With the 2 Hr recharge you get to save them once that way.

Cover's the tool we really have for those situations. Yeah it's hard to hold hate off a 1k+ WS but if you've been keeping hate high the whole time it's not at all impossible to earn hate back before Cover wears off.

Skewing towards a DD build can help there too (depending on the mobs). Pld damage isn't comparable to a true DD but the more we can close the gap the easier time our other tools have filling it in.

[Loial]

Re: Invincible

While sharing hate with another PLD against Tiamat last night, he Invincibled and after about 5 seconds, Tiamat decided to hit the bard instead. You don't need EES, Barrage, WS... or Souleater/BloodWeapon/Kraken Club... or using all your PLD abilities to pull hate off of Invincible.

[Slip]

Re: Invincible

To be fair, Bard's can generate *way* more hate than a lot of folks realize. Those buffs that effect the entire party? Yeah, mobs aren't so fond of those. Still, interesting to see one rip hate off Invincible...really makes me want to finish leveling Brd up to proper subjob levels so I can try Pld/Brd.

Ah, uninterruptible hate tool bliss how I crave thee! (Can you tell I'll been fighting Marids and Chigoes a lot lately?)

[Jei]

Re: Invincible

PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka

[Hilde]

Re: Invincible

hmmm...I have used it:

-Theif pulled an extra Antican in Quicksand Caves, I ended up 2HR so I could cure myself, to tank them both so the mages could get us out w/ escape/tele.

-Coffer Key hunting when about 6 demons realized a mithra was standing infront of them.

I rarely use it, but when I do it's always a good story. Lots of magic flying everywhere and the screen was red with provokes and magic bursts...

Good times.