Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

[Mikalian]

I realize that the chances of SE actually implementing any suggestion we post here are around slim to none with slim doing the old fast walk out of town but if we all get behind this positively we might just slow ole slims walk down a bit. Please check out my idea and post some replies to show your supoort to SE.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/ask...ly-spells.html

[Gilge]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

sounds pretty great, story behind it sounds pretty great. in fact, it would be pretty great if SE considered this.

(i'm still waiting for the rumoured en-light and en-dark spells for plds and drks respectively (that were supposedly supposed to come out in the expansion)).

[Armando]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

It's a good idea in theory but fails for two reasons: The PLD job as is established by the game's lore can only use light-based Divine/Healing/Enhancing magic, and these spells do the same thing that Gallant's Roll does. Gallant's Roll doesn't do it to such a large extenct, and I'm not sure if it's percentage based or a static ammount, but it basically gives some form of "damage reflection."

[Lmnop]

always so harsh when you use the word harsh...

What's unique about this is that it's not just a "spikes" effect. It's contingent upon shield blocking. This effectively makes it an MP-counter. While I like the idea and really like how thought-out your quest storyline is, I have a few problems:

first, I don't see the practical use of all the different elements. Rdm En-spells don't even have light/dark, and you could have just one of the En-spells and barely ever notice the difference. I suppose if these spells rely on their element for determining Resist rates, then it could be important. I think ideally, damage dealt by the spell would be calculated solely off of your Shield Skill while resist rates are based off of Enhancing Magic skill. I'd think you could just make one that's either not specified for element, or simply "light" based. Additionally, S-E would be more likely to make your cool quest for one spell, not 8.

I suppose this isn't an issue, though it... might be? Am I reading this right in that as you have it calculated, larger damage negated would result in higher damage returned? Thus larger shield types would deal more damage to make up for their lower processing rate? I hope I see that right, because that's the ideal. Paladin, in general, avoids size 1 shields and that's the way it should be. You don't want a system where people sacrifice their best shields for more damage output. Shield mastery has already slightly skewed this, since you get just as much tp regardless of shield type. Which is why if your idea gets implemented, I think the Constant (the .80) should vary depending on shield size so you'd be in a "slightly less tp but slightly more damage" situation.

My last issue is a technical issue... more of a worry. I mentioned it previously, but I think if they introduced something like this, it may have problems interacting with Spike effects. I suppose if they put it in the text like a Counter is coded in, not as "Additional Effect: stuff" there wouldn't be a problem.

Still think extremely short-term debuffs would be interesting, contingent on shield block... when an opponent has their attack deflected by the shield, they are temporarily left open. Or the shock of colliding with one of the great stoic protectors leaves them momentarily shaken. say... 6-20 seconds of evasion down or defense down? Damage enabler ftw :D

[Mikalian]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

Sorry been gone for a bit... damn real life messing around with me.

In response to points raised...

Armando's Issue:

The PLD job as is established by the game's lore can only use light-based Divine/Healing/Enhancing magic, and these spells do the same thing that Gallant's Roll does. Gallant's Roll doesn't do it to such a large extenct, and I'm not sure if it's percentage based or a static ammount, but it basically gives some form of "damage reflection."

Lmnop's Issue:

I'd think you could just make one that's either not specified for element, or simply "light" based. Additionally, S-E would be more likely to make your cool quest for one spell, not 8.

AND

Still think extremely short-term debuffs would be interesting, contingent on shield block... when an opponent has their attack deflected by the shield, they are temporarily left open.

I think I can clean up these issues by as Lmnop says just having one spell (level 70ish maybe since that where our lack of damage really seems to become a percieved liability) and as Armando says makeing it only Light based.

Heres what I'm thinking now...

Spell name: Holy Shield
AH Category: Scrolls/White Magic
Type: Enhancing
Level: PLD70
MP Cost: 45
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 1 minute

Deals Light damage when shield blocks in proportion to damage blocked (80%).
Latent effect: blinds enemy and reduces enemy evasion.

The latent effect would be triggered by blocking a critical hit. I know I personally love when I watch the block animation then read about the critical hit I just took for 3 damage lol. If you block a critical hit there should be some negative effect on the enemy since a critical hit is supposed to be some awsome heroic moment and then they get blocked... that would be embarassing. The latent effect would trigger not only blinding the ememy with the holy light of your shield but staggering them and makeing them an easier target for your friends. The duration of the effect would be based on your enhanceing magic thus a capped enhancing skill would result in a maximum of 15 second effect.

Lmnop's other issue:

Am I reading this right in that as you have it calculated, larger damage negated would result in higher damage returned? Thus larger shield types would deal more damage to make up for their lower processing rate? I hope I see that right, because that's the ideal.

Yeah you read that right. Even with the revisions above with a static 80% damage returned a larger shield will more damage because it blocks more damage. I wanted to keep something that would require us to actually level our enhanceing magic thus the short term debuff that you recommended. I think we should try to keep all of our skills leveled other wise we become like RDM's with Divine skill and no divine spells anymore.

[Jarre]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

Having got up to lvl 35 now as a PLD a few spells I wouldn't mind seeing. As we are a tank it would be nice to have a higher defensive spell than protect 4. say bring back FF7's wall basically Protect and shell at a high level.

The pld also has too few offensive spells, Flash is great (2 levels to go!!) but maybe another offensive spell to gain hate.

And how about giving us the Knights of the round job abilty/spell which allows us to cause heavy damage with a sword i.e. hit 10 times in a row generating alot of hate, with a recast time of say 10 minutes so we don't become too uber a job.

[FranckKnight]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

And how about giving us the Knights of the round job abilty/spell which allows us to cause heavy damage with a sword i.e. hit 10 times in a row generating alot of hate, with a recast time of say 10 minutes so we don't become too uber a job.

And how exactly that would be 'not unbalanced'? Let's pretend that Knights of the Round does 10 attacks at your normal damage. How many jobs you think would love to get a 10-fold TP move? Not to mention the actual damage output it gives. Knights of the Round is already given on Excalibur and with good reason.

No, before they decide on something like this, they will lower recast rates on Flash. Flash ia hate grabbing move that makes no damage, like Provoke, which is more in the line of the Paladin's skill.

Paladin aren't supposed to be killing machines, they are supposed to be the wall between the monster and your party, and take the damage for them, being the first to break down. The only offensive thing a wall could do is fall on the monster and crush it to death (and that's more like the Ninja's 2H ).

Not to say that PLDs can't deal damage, but just glance at the skill list, nothing about them is offensive in nature. Their favorite TP move becomes Spirits Within because it doesn't rely on your stats as much as other moves. The somewhat offensive abilities come from the Warrior subjob (Warcry, Berserk), and abilities that they do have to generate damage is pretty weak against EXP mobs (Shield Bash, Banish, Holy).

I wouldn't be against a Shield enchantement, that would only make them want to work on their shield skill more, it wouldn't be that uber if the spell only works when the shield gets triggered. But on the other hand I believe some items already grants some similar enchantements, so its up to the PLD to use it or not.

Which leads to Ice Gauntlets, once we know how to get them. They have Ice Spikes inherently and beats most hand items for PLD/DRK in terms of both damage and defense. Right now noone has any idea how to get them.

[Armando]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

Heres what I'm thinking now...
Spell name: Holy Shield
AH Category: Scrolls/White Magic
Type: Enhancing
Level: PLD70
MP Cost: 45
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 1 minute
Deals Light damage when shield blocks in proportion to damage blocked (80%).
Latent effect: blinds enemy and reduces enemy evasion.
The latent effect would be triggered by blocking a critical hit. I know I personally love when I watch the block animation then read about the critical hit I just took for 3 damage lol. If you block a critical hit there should be some negative effect on the enemy since a critical hit is supposed to be some awsome heroic moment and then they get blocked... that would be embarassing. The latent effect would trigger not only blinding the ememy with the holy light of your shield but staggering them and makeing them an easier target for your friends. The duration of the effect would be based on your enhanceing magic thus a capped enhancing skill would result in a maximum of 15 second effect.

Much better. Now I really don't have much of a reason to oppose the idea, although let's be honest - with all the things S-E has given PLDs recently (shield system improvement, Auto Refresh, Shield Mastery, Sanction Refresh, Parade Gorget, and soon maybe Ice Gauntlets) it's unlikely they'll give us more. It's too bad, though.
By the way, am I the only one that sees the obvious contradiction of being able to shield critical hits? XD

Yeah you read that right. Even with the revisions above with a static 80% damage returned a larger shield will more damage because it blocks more damage. I wanted to keep something that would require us to actually level our enhanceing magic thus the short term debuff that you recommended. I think we should try to keep all of our skills leveled other wise we become like RDM's with Divine skill and no divine spells anymore.

Size 4 shields would return the most damage on a single-hit basis, but in the end Size 3 would still come out on top because they block more damage in the long run. Which is good, because we want to use Size 3's.
And lol, yeah, that KotR thing wouldn't fly even if you ignored the fact that it's already in the game. A 10-hit WS? That'd be crazy. Besides, shouldn't KotR be 13? In any case, it's a one-hit WS only accessible by having Caliburn in Dynamis or having Excalibur.

[Mikalian]

Re: Suggestions for Paladin Only spells

By the way, am I the only one that sees the obvious contradiction of being able to shield critical hits?

Yeah I know I was suprised to see that I can block a critical hit but I love it when it happens... I've only ever seen it when I was useing a Tower Shied and I've used two different size 3 shields as well as a Tower Shield (which I believe is a size 4) since the update that gave us all those shield system enhancements. I've never seen a blocked a crit with a size three but I blocked numerous crits with the Tower Shield. Either I'm just missing it (which is possible as I've never claimed to be perfect) or maybe there is some sort of hidden benefit to useing Size 4. Either way I love seeing a Critical Hit only do 3 damage.