Taru pld endgame tanking...

[Davitron3000]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Actually to be honest, the majority of the PLD in my endgame Linkshells are Humes. There are maybe two Elvaan and only one Galka, I believe, but about seven or eight Humes.

My LS has mostly Hume Paladins also. I am the only Galka Paladin. In fact I think we only have 2 active Galka players which makes me sad

*goes to his LS leader and demands recruiting of Galka*

[Loial]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

/sea all galka 2 75... nearly always less than 50 on.

[Stooky]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Lol im staying tarutaru... the love of tarutaru can not be broken :D

[Raydeus]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Not much Galkas can do about it really, you guys got hit pretty hard by those Anticans before escaping to Basty.

[eva00r]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

I am going to discourage you here. I am hume PLD with almost 1700 HP and +20 enmity. I can tank Ultima with only a few problems. But my friend who is hume PLD with around 1500 HP, took 1584 damage from it's uber ws and dead.

Therefore, Taru PLD will have a hard time fighting those bosses. No joke but 1.3k HP PLD tanking is definitely an exp-losing machine.

[Karinya]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

If you're referring to Citadel Buster, surviving it by any means other than Super Jump is extremely rare. (And if you live with 10 HP, you'll just be killed before the healers get back into the room anyway.)

There are very few fights where high maximum HP is important. In fact, I haven't seen one yet. Endgame tanking is mostly about hate control, with damage reduction a close second. Max HP is good for spirits within and... soloing cactuars maybe?

[Davitron3000]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

If you're referring to Citadel Buster, surviving it by any means other than Super Jump is extremely rare. (And if you live with 10 HP, you'll just be killed before the healers get back into the room anyway.)
There are very few fights where high maximum HP is important. In fact, I haven't seen one yet. Endgame tanking is mostly about hate control, with damage reduction a close second. Max HP is good for spirits within and... soloing cactuars maybe?

I agree that you don't need Max HP for endgame fights. I think around 1500-1600 is probably a good number to shoot for. I also think the more Enmity and HP you can
get the better and probably in that order. HP gear is good but not at the cost of losing hate.

[Omni]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

I am going to discourage you here. I am hume PLD with almost 1700 HP and +20 enmity. I can tank Ultima with only a few problems. But my friend who is hume PLD with around 1500 HP, took 1584 damage from it's uber ws and dead.
Therefore, Taru PLD will have a hard time fighting those bosses. No joke but 1.3k HP PLD tanking is definitely an exp-losing machine.

What makes you think that you wont get hit for more? Just because your friend got hit for 1584 doesnt mean you're going to get for that same amount. With all that HP and enmity gear, your def and vit rating would be lower, so a mob that hit your friend for however much does not stay constant if he were to do the same move to you.

Very subjective arguments. I'd hate to tell you, but if the mob is going to 1 shot you, you're going to get 1 shotted no matter who or what you are. I've seen plenty of pld and nin get 1 shotted regardless of race. There is no 100% defense against the 1 shot.

[Loial]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Dismissing a race for playing PLD based solely on one fight is a bit silly. That's like saying, "Promathia will use Chains of Apathy most often and render your hume useless in the 8-4 battle. Therefore, no one should play humes."

Ultima is not overly difficult when he is using Citadel Buster. A good strategy can win instead of high HP.

[bside]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

I am going to discourage you here. I am hume PLD with almost 1700 HP and +20 enmity. I can tank Ultima with only a few problems. But my friend who is hume PLD with around 1500 HP, took 1584 damage from it's uber ws and dead.
Therefore, Taru PLD will have a hard time fighting those bosses. No joke but 1.3k HP PLD tanking is definitely an exp-losing machine.

I agree that you don't need Max HP for endgame fights. I think around 1500-1600 is probably a good number to shoot for. I also think the more Enmity and HP you can
get the better and probably in that order. HP gear is good but not at the cost of losing hate.

What makes you think that you wont get hit for more? Just because your friend got hit for 1584 doesnt mean you're going to get for that same amount. With all that HP and enmity gear, your def and vit rating would be lower, so a mob that hit your friend for however much does not stay constant if he were to do the same move to you.
Very subjective arguments. I'd hate to tell you, but if the mob is going to 1 shot you, you're going to get 1 shotted no matter who or what you are. I've seen plenty of pld and nin get 1 shotted regardless of race. There is no 100% defense against the 1 shot.

One thing we shouldn't forget is that when we get hit, hate is lost based on the damage taken/your HP ratio, so the more HP you have, the less hate is lost, thus helping w/ enmity.

There actually are HP gears "at the cost of losing hate," but the only thing that comes to my mind is the back piece; Gigant vs Valor, or maybe High Breath. Other than that, it's pretty much straight forward; HP or Enmity, whichever comes w/ the "better" piece. For instance, most 73+ PLD's would use Adaman gears when they don't have access to sky/land HNM's/Dynamis, but when they get, say, Valor Guntlet, would they switch to it or stay w/ Adaman? The answer should be obvious for most occasions. But when the same comes to Valor vs Koening, some might choose Valor, some might go otherwise, so this might be another occasion of "HP gears at the cost of losing hate." Personally, I'd go w/ Valor over Koening for most occasions, though.

As for "With all that HP and enmity gear, your def and vit rating would be lower," HP, Enmity, and DEF can coexist all together. VIT and Enmity are 2 choices you must pick considering the End-game gears, but most go w/ Enmity if they don't have full Koening, "at the cost of losing hate" against maybe AF or Relic armors. When it comes to HNM's, having VIT boost of 20 or so often doesn't mean much (of course, dependant on which HNM). Ever seen tanks getting hit for about the same amount of damage, whether it's critical or not? This is because the PDIF is almost capped, at its max of 4.0, whether it's normal attack or critical. But without further boosting, largely w/ full Koening, having enough VIT to make a difference against hard-hittin HNM's is really tough, and often means a huge loss of HP and Enmity without Koening. BTW, 20+ in Enmity is not that hard; full AF gives 8, and full Reric gives 14. Not to mention High Breath is another 5, so adding up to 20 isn't that difficult.


Nevertheless, like Loial mentioned, ruling out Tarus solely based on their HP is nonsense. Whether 1500 or 1700, you'll get one-shoted no matter what, like Omni said. For good example, Kirin's Stonga 4 requires 1800+ to survive, which you don't have. Not to mention w/ Tarus' high MP, they can recover from such deadly damages more often than other races, thus helping w/ Enmity a lot. (Remember, more self-Cure not only means higher hate, but also means less hate for healers.)

And like I said earlier in this thread, the bottom line is, it's your player skill that counts the most.
If you say HP counts the most, you're already lost to Elvaans and Galkas. You'd claim otherwise, wouldn't you?

[DragKnightFutch]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Its wonderful how people love to bash taru PLD. They get a Great MP pool for Keeping hate. If you build it right, you can tank just as good as any other race. People belive just because their a Galka or elv, they are 10x better then a Taru. Wrong in so many ways... Ive seen tarus with 1700 HP or so, Is it hard? Yes. Worth going for? yes if you play other jobs besides PLD and love taru. Myself playing DRG and WHM to 75, Cant wait till PLD is there.

[Theyaden]

Re: Taru pld endgame tanking...

Its wonderful how people love to bash taru PLD. They get a Great MP pool for Keeping hate. If you build it right, you can tank just as good as any other race. People belive just because their a Galka or elv, they are 10x better then a Taru. Wrong in so many ways... Ive seen tarus with 1700 HP or so, Is it hard? Yes. Worth going for? yes if you play other jobs besides PLD and love taru. Myself playing DRG and WHM to 75, Cant wait till PLD is there.

I don't think it's bashing a player race to discuss the pros and cons involved.
Galka and Elvan higher hp lower mana better vitality lower acc.
Hume inbetween without the highs and lows other races work with
Mithra better accuracy
Taru higher mana lower vit and hp good acuracy
Which of these makes the only tank... none, but depending on what your doing race choice just like gear selection will give you advantages and disadvantages based on situation. I don't believe you need a scorpian harness +1 to be a damage dealer, but it is always a plus when available. Doubtless certain fights will play out differently xp taru paladines are great because of the huge stream of mana stapling hate if your needing a certain hp total to survive a god fight you have to outspend the Galka significantly in gear. It's all a question of tradeoffs and how to cope with what you have to work with.

I personally think working under less than ideal situations improves player skill. Galka usually tend to be better at mana conservation than any other because they are forced to practice it constantly while taru are usually more aware of their hp pool since they've had to struggle with it early on. My point is see if you can adapt to your limitations, but never pretend not to have any no matter which race you prefer.