The Gluttony sword

[dirtyclown]

Re: The Gluttony sword

shush, or /b-tards will find us.

We are Legion. We are many. We are everywhere, and we are nowhere. You cannot escape Anonymous. We do not forget, and we do not forgive.

I agree with the general opinion here, the sword is decent for certain things like mentioned above, when you want to free up your ring slots for something else. Other than that..eh. It's just another sword.

[Armando]

Re: The Gluttony sword

Meh, I wouldn't even consider it worth it for freeing up your ring slots. I mean, if you're freeing them up it's either for DD'ing or for MP. If it's for the sake of DD'ing, well, NQ Bastard Sword does 9.16% more damage over time on normal swings, and the HQ does 14.30% more damage over time (while having the same base DMG, so WS doesn't suffer.) Changing your rings to STR or Acc rings won't give you such sharp increases in damage, so Gluttony + DD rings doesn't stack up to Bastard Sword + VIT rings. If it's for MP...meh. +MP stops being useful the second you use it, and you can use it very quickly. Taking a few hits with MP rings on and then swapping them out isn't very different from wearing +MP rings full time. Plus, with Refresh, Auto Refresh, and Sanction Refresh, max MP isn't even that important anymore.

The only real use I can think of is that you're really desperate for +VIT, and if you're EXP'ing off of something that strong, you should probably change targets.

Anywho, I've spoken with a lot of PLDs on my server, Pheonix, about the gluttony sword. I'm a budding PLD, only 49 and I have no urge to shell out almost 1 mil on a sword that affects all my other stats to boost another one.

Really more of a small nitpick than anything else, but the problem with Gluttony Sword isn't that it subtracts from all your stats. -1 to a stat is so small the difference would only really exist in your imagination, even if it's -1 to six stats. The problem is its huge delay makes it a poorer choice for doing damage.

I own a Gluttony Sword, but I mainly keep it because my ex girlfriend gave it to me as a birthday gift two years back, and sometimes it just feels good to see that much +VIT on you, even if it's unpractical. I love my Bastard Sword more ;3

[Celeal]

Re: The Gluttony sword

From lvl 57, my PLD setup is AGI and Shield skill+, using Gluttony sword to cover the lack of VIT+. From 60+ the only VIT+ i am using is from Gluttony Sword, Knighty Mantle, and the AF body, the rest is agi+ from rings, ear slot and AF pants. Combine with Master Shield + AF feet, and capped shield skill, vit+/agi+ from taco, this setup works out very well for me.
I was using this setup from lvl 60 ~ 62, and exp on Puks without any RDM or BRD. Just Sanction Refresh and a main healer only, Cure II is the most I used, Defender up all time, and a Dark Staff after battle, reaching chain 5 most of time.

[Maju]

Re: The Gluttony sword

From lvl 57, my PLD setup is AGI and Shield skill+, using Gluttony sword to cover the lack of VIT+. From 60+ the only VIT+ i am using is from Gluttony Sword, Knighty Mantle, and the AF body, the rest is agi+ from rings, ear slot and AF pants. Combine with Master Shield + AF feet, and capped shield skill, vit+/agi+ from taco, this setup works out very well for me.
I was using this setup from lvl 60 ~ 62, and exp on Puks without any RDM or BRD. Just Sanction Refresh and a main healer only, Cure II is the most I used, Defender up all time, and a Dark Staff after battle, reaching chain 5 most of time.

Master Shield is a size 2 shield. Change to size 3.

Also, by L60 you won't gain anything at all from Defender if you're eating defense food such as tacos unless you're hunting something you shouldn't be exping on anyway. Just try it, damage taken will be exactly the same.

If you really insist on playing that defensively, I suggest you instead change to sushi food and full time defender. It should give you pretty much equal defense but the accuracy bonus from sushi will increase your damage output more than the -25% atk from defender will reduce it.

The dark staff is useless. If you're pulling so slowly that you actually have time to rest MP back between pulls, something is wrong (probably lack of brd or rdm). Also, the weapon swapping resets your TP, which leads to lower damage output and lower hate levels.

[Lmnop]

Re: The Gluttony sword

From lvl 57, my PLD setup is AGI and Shield skill+, using Gluttony sword to cover the lack of VIT+. From 60+ the only VIT+ i am using is from Gluttony Sword, Knighty Mantle, and the AF body, the rest is agi+ from rings, ear slot and AF pants. Combine with Master Shield + AF feet, and capped shield skill, vit+/agi+ from taco, this setup works out very well for me.
I was using this setup from lvl 60 ~ 62, and exp on Puks without any RDM or BRD. Just Sanction Refresh and a main healer only, Cure II is the most I used, Defender up all time, and a Dark Staff after battle, reaching chain 5 most of time.

Nice to see you're doing good with this layout. :3

@Maju: while you may, in fact, be right. Notice that that was in the context of the party w/out a refresher. So this is maximum mp conservation layout.

I'd still get a size 3 shield if you're bent on using Dark Staff though (or times when you feel you're going to be using it). Master Shield would be nicer for abusing Shield Mastery which brings me back to the rest of this thread...

Gluttony Sword high base DMG still makes nice Vorpal Blades. Hello DD equip swaps!

[Celeal]

Re: The Gluttony sword

As I mentioned, it was lack of rdm or brd in the party (PLD + Healer + 4 DD party). The MP Regen while healing from Dark staff and Taco does the trick. And the pull is not slow either (chain 5 most of time, just have enough time to rest for one tick between pulls). Because it was lack of rdm or brd, I need all the damage reduction I have. With 4 DD in party, I don't really need to focus on increase damage output.

Well, if mp recover faster that spending, I have DD gear/food ready when I exp on PLD too (just using some of my SAM's and WAR's gear). However, there is a risk to use Tank/DD setup if the support/healer in the party is not skillful with their jobs. I learned this from the hard way in my past experience.

I am not trying to say Tank/DD setup is bad. Both Tank/DD or pure Tank based setup are valuable. If the situation is right, I will go for Tank/DD setup (the faster the mob dies, the faster the exp rolls, everyone loves it). If I want a "safer" exp, the pure tank setup is much better for handling link/pop, or party setup that lacks mp recovery or healing.

P.S.
For shield size, it is situational too. For skill up, size 1 is the best. For damage reduction, size 3. For the middle ground, size 2. Currently, I am trying to see if the TP bonus from Shield Mastery worthed for a smaller shield or not.

[Armando]

Re: The Gluttony sword

Well, the thing is, Size 2 shields don't really proc noticeably more often than a Size 3. They're basically gimped Size 3's.

Gluttony Sword high base DMG still makes nice Vorpal Blades. Hello DD equip swaps!

I don't know about that.... The difference isn't that big to me. Let's say you're using NQ Bastard Sword. The difference is one DMG. Worst case scenario, you'll do 3 damage less per swing, totalling up to 12 damage less. That's assuming capped attack, crits on all four hits, and of course all hits landing. Realistically speaking, while tanking you probably wouldn't have an average PDIF exceeding 1.0 and you'd only crit or two hits at best unless you get really lucky...so the difference would be more along the lines of (1 * 2) + (2 * 2) = 6 damage at best.

If we're talking pre-60, then the comparison would be against T.M. Espadon +2. It's a 5 DMG difference, so you'd lose about (5 * 1 * 2) + (5 * 2 * 2) = 25 at worst, but that's without taking account the sword's +12 Attack, and with a sword that's nearly a whole second faster per swing (54 Delay less, 18.3% faster)...who cares? You're gonna score at least one more swing (if not two) with the Espadon just getting those 100 TP anyways (Gluttony Sword needs 13 hits for 100 TP, T.M. Espadon +2 needs 16.)

[georgs]

Re: The Gluttony sword

I just thought of this, the Gluttony would be a rather nice sword to have while using weapon skills that use VIT as a modifier, so yeah...but uhm...other than that, it's a slow, strong sword with a VIT boost. It's funny hearing people freak out over the Gluttony sword as if it is THE PLD weapon, while weapons like Durandal are kind of put on the back burner by some people, and Excalibur is glorified beyond imagination. I've heard Excalibur isn't that great and Knights of the Round, not that hot either. Crap....I'm rambling.

[Armando]

Re: The Gluttony sword

Lol, sword has no VIT-modified WS, unfortunately.

Also, Excalibur is pretty damned powerful if you ask me. The added effect can kick in for like 1/4th of your HP, something like that. It can do 200 damage on a single proc with near-full HP. KotR isn't particularly powerful, but it can make a second Light Skillchain, which'll do 150% of KotR's damage if it's the 2nd SC being done, or 175% if it's the third, as well as allowing yet another MB. Also, Excalibur has high DMG and is pretty fast, making it not only powerful in raw DMG/sec (only a bit behind fully powered Company Sword's,) but the fact that it's fast also lets it apply its added effects that much more often (as opposed to making it higher DMG but slower, like a Company Sword.) It can also randomly get a x3 multiplier to its normal hits, and doesn't using KotR give you a short super regen? And, you say KotR isn't "that hot." Sure, maybe it doesn't have the damage potential of Vorpal Blade but isn't by any means weak either. It has an fTP of 3.0 and stat mods of 40% STR and MND, as opposed to Vorpal Blade's 4 hits with fTP's of 1.0 (adding up to 4.0) and 30% STR mod. What sets Vorpal Blade aside is its ability to crit. Although, a SA'd KotR should be plenty strong. And +20 Attack is ALWAYS good.

Overall, I'd say it's a very strong weapon. You could make a strong argument it's not worth the commitment, effort, and time to get it, but its power is kind of hard to deny.

[georgs]

Re: The Gluttony sword

I fail.

Honestly, Excalibur seems great and all..and that I was misinformed about it's pro's which seem more than worth the cons, but the cost and effort that goes into getting it seems tremendous.

And I just realized that dagger has the VIT WS modifiers, or is it axe...I remember hearing about it during my stint as an RNG.

[Celeal]

Re: The Gluttony sword

Well, the thing is, Size 2 shields don't really proc noticeably
more often than a Size 3. They're basically gimped Size 3's.
....

Try added more AGI. Currently my PLD has AGI 46 +17 (from gear + Taco as food), +20 shield skill from AF feet and Master skill. I notice when my total AGI reach my base VIT lvl (64 at this moment), the proc rate is very noticeable.

I will run test on different shield size and AGI+ later when I have time. I will get back to you once I have recorded the numbers.

[DakAttack]

Re: The Gluttony sword

You do have +20 shield skill, and you can boost that up to +30 if you're still using the Master Shield in your sixties.

[Celeal]

Re: The Gluttony sword

I just spent 3 hours in Crawler's Nest, testing the proc-rate of the shields. The following is the data:

Blazer Beetles in Crawler's Nest, from lvl 63 PLD/WAR
(Shield skill is not capped because I just leveled up from the last party)

Master Shield (Total 233 shield skill, 46+13 AGI)
Mob 1: Shield Block = 9, Hit taken = 20, Evade = 24, Parry = 4, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 2: Shield Block = 5, Hit taken = 31, Evade = 22, Parry = 1, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 3: Shield Block = 3, Hit taken = 20, Evade = 13, Parry = 2, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 4: Shield Block = 9, Hit taken = 28, Evade = 16, Parry = 2, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 5: Shield Block = 8, Hit taken = 21, Evade = 23, Parry = 1, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 6: Shield Block = 4, Hit taken = 31, Evade = 18, Parry = 3, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 7: Shield Block = 15, Hit taken = 46, Evade = 10, Parry = 2, Exp gained = 41 (easy prey)
Mob 8: Shield Block = 7, Hit taken = 26, Evade = 25, Parry = 2, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)

Hard Shield (Total 223 shield skill, 46+13 AGI)
Mob 1: Shield Block = 8, Hit taken = 19, Evade = 15, Parry = 3, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 2: Shield Block = 9, Hit taken = 20, Evade = 12, Parry = 4, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 3: Shield Block = 12, Hit taken = 32, Evade = 8, Parry = 0, Exp gained = 41 (easy prey)
Mob 4: Shield Block = 7, Hit taken = 15, Evade = 27, Parry = 3, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 5: Shield Block = 7, Hit taken = 22, Evade = 13, Parry = 0, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 6: Shield Block = 13, Hit taken = 48, Evade = 5, Parry = 1, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)
Mob 7: Shield Block = 5, Hit taken = 22, Evade = 13, Parry = 3, Exp gained = 35 (easy prey)

... I stopped the test after this point, and I have to admit that Armando is correct:

Well, the thing is, Size 2 shields don't really proc noticeably
more often than a Size 3. They're basically gimped Size 3's.

From my test, I also notice that the additional shield skill +10 from Master Shield does not affect the proc-rate.

/em runs to AH and sells the Master Shield ... (>.<*)

[Lmnop]

Re: The Gluttony sword

methinks the +10 shield skill wouldn't help you on anything that you could solo, given that your skill/AGI is already so high that you're prolly capped.

there's always this interesting read if you want to see Armando's data.

About the swords: leave it to Armando to find how miniscule a gain Gluttony would have over TM Espy. At any rate, I was mainly just thinking about the concept of as heavy a hitter a sword you could get paired with the highest possible shield block rate. Basically, if your damage output is normally something like 80% DoT/ 20% WS, with a layout like this it'd shift to something closer to 70/30. But still achieving an effective defense. At any rate, Gluttony would need another couple base damage before it would seem plausible that it could equal damage of a Bastard Sword, and even then, Armando would probably prove me wrong.

I do want to make this clear though: I think all of the pally layouts I've been hearing about are effective enough that no one should ever call you gimp because you're full defense/full VIT or full time defender + sushi or mostly DD or the very interesting AGI/Shield skill+ layout.

Though I still prefer that a paladin remember that their damage is worth something, and that Earth Staff kinda sucks ass.

[georgs]

Re: The Gluttony sword

So, what this boils down to is that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, which is nice to see in a forum about something so specific.

So, here's another question, as a PLD should one really go out of the way to get equipment that has + shield skill? I always just stuck with AGI boosts as a good way to have Shield blocks proc. and you should usually stick with the larger shields due to the advantage of added DEF. But, I could be totally off base.