Hard decision...

[raidenn]

Re: Hard decision...

Don't like it? Report me.

What for? Your remarks pretty much brings out your reputation.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

Reputation, on the internet? What are you, 14? The proper response would have been "What for? Your remarks pretty much brings out your character." Notice how the word "Reputation" has been replaced with the word "Character". Do me a favor and lurk more in English class.

Zamphire, you got a link to those patch notes? I'd like to check out that bit about Charisma.

[raidenn]

Re: Hard decision...

Reputation, on the internet? What are you, 14? The proper response would have been "What for? Your remarks pretty much brings out your character." Notice how the word "Reputation" has been replaced with the word "Character". Do me a favor and lurk more in English class.
Zamphire, you got a link to those patch notes? I'd like to check out that bit about Charisma.

Sure sure whatever.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Hard decision...

I don't know about jailers but sky gods are some of the easier HNMs in the game. Besides, if you tank with a good NIN or two you can pretty much 3-man most of them. Try doing that with PLD.

I don't need to kill gods with 3 people. I have a lot of fun tanking them with a full alliance. Maybe your server is different, but I don't know many LSs that kill Sky Gods with 3 people on a regular basis. What 'harder' HNM are you referring to? I am pretty sure Paladins can tank CoP Wyrms and Land Kings. I just co tanked with a Ninja on Bahamut (version 1) and I would say we both tanked for about the same amount. I went as Pld/Nin. Pld/Nin is not just for DDing... and if you are too close minded to think that anything but Pld/War works, I feel bad for you.

I've never been in Limbus either. I'd imagine the mob toughness is similar to Dynamis, though, which is pretty damn weak.

Not sure what your point here is. Limbus and Dynamis don't count to tank in because the mobs are not the strongest?

Yea you can, but you'll have to make the PT yourself (and somehow convince people to join you) or leech in with the help of an LS mate. Nobody will actually invite you unless they're an outcast job as well. I'm planning to merit on my PLD anyway and as a PLD/WAR DD setup when possible. Screw /NIN, it only lowers my damage output.

I kinda have to give you this. I don't do experience parties on my Paladin much unless I ask Linkshell members if they want to party and then it is usually a pretty casual experience party where we are chatting as much as earning experience. I would agree that it is harder to get a party levels 73-75.

Yeah, I did 2-5 as PLD (not done with CoP yet as it's near impossible to find a PT during EU time) even though it's a NIN onry mission. I burned through a hefty ammount of potions and yagudo drinks despite having just about the best possible 40 cap gear, though. We had a DRG in the group also.

Ummmm.... all the members in my CoP static had to spend a lot of money on meds for almost all of the CoP BCNMs. Being Paladin had nothing to do with it. Also, I think Paladin is better than Ninja on some fights. Our ability to get massive amounts of hate in a short amount of time really helps on the fights that are really fast. (Snoll)

The only Assault I've done is Golden Salvage because I've yet to meet anyone who wants a PLD to tag along to any other assault.

I never said everyone wants Paladin for Assaults, but you can do them. My advice is to do things that Paladin aren't more 'wanted' for with friends/linkshell mates. I was asked to be in an Assault Static with friends.

What if there are no adds? Do you then feel proud of being a ghetto WHM since you'll get destroyed in seconds if you try to tank?

Yes, I do feel proud. I realize that I will not always be needed at every fight, whether it be a Ninja tanking or another Paladin tanking. So I throw cures and /cheers and know that I will eventually get my turn to main tank also. Whatever I can do to help my Linkshell get a win (sans cheating) I will do. Even if it means throwing a few cures here and there from the sidelines.

Most things aren't true for everyone, but I think my post gives a pretty good general idea of what PLDs are used for.

Well, maybe I was in the wrong for saying what I did and you are right that those things are what Paladins are generally used for. I just wanted the OP to know that it does not have to be that way, because I get to do a lot of things as an endgame Paladin that were not on you 'list'.

edit: this was posted while I was posting...

I'd say it gives a rather skewed idea of what Paladins are used for, not a general one. Seriously Maju, all you ever do is bitch about how shitty this job is. Suck it up and quit your bitching or level a different job.

I kinda agree. Maju, I have nothing against you but you seem to be really negative about the Paladin job

Zamphire, do you have a link about the CHR affecting hate?

[Zamphire]

Re: Hard decision...

The CHR effecting hate wasn't ever officially stated by SE (nothing about stats effecting stuff hardly ever is.) It's mainly something I've heard from other people then tested on my 62 PLD as well as my BRD. It seems to help.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Hard decision...

The CHR effecting hate wasn't ever officially stated by SE (nothing about stats effecting stuff hardly ever is.) It's mainly something I've heard from other people then tested on my 62 PLD as well as my BRD. It seems to help.

Errr you heard

So what proof do you have to back this up?

[Murphie]

Re: Hard decision...

Is this like how Dia and Bio were changed in the December update?

[Zamphire]

Re: Hard decision...

Get someone to PL you, get a lower level job. Equipp CHR rings + Gear on the lower level. Let the low level job drop in hp and let the power level heal it. The mob will turn to the PL. Let the lower level attack just enough to pull hate, normally you will get hit once before hate goes back to the PL, with enough CHR you'll hold it longer.

[Reldin]

Re: Hard decision...

I guess I stick with Whm for a while longer I start to like it lately. ^^
But yeah I'm all for Paladins and I'm always happy to see one in my party, I just don't feel safe with a Ninja...The most Ninjas I partied with couldn't really manage to keep hate and i end up healing everyone just like a party without any tank and the mobs start agroing me like mad! >_>
Thanks for the replies.
/em cheers for the paladins!

[Maju]

Re: Hard decision...

I'd say it gives a rather skewed idea of what Paladins are used for, not a general one. Seriously Maju, all you ever do is bitch about how shitty this job is. Suck it up and quit your bitching or level a different job.

Go ahead and keep living in your dream world.

And yes, I am going to roll NIN as soon as I get a few basic merits and farm some gear. Maybe SE will eventually realize what jobs need tweaking when everybody changes to the currently "hot" jobs. I'm also interested in THF because it's a fun job, but hell, I should rather roll WAR/NIN and go TP burn a Kirin in five minutes.

I don't need to kill gods with 3 people. I have a lot of fun tanking them with a full alliance. Maybe your server is different, but I don't know many LSs that kill Sky Gods with 3 people on a regular basis. What 'harder' HNM are you referring to? I am pretty sure Paladins can tank CoP Wyrms and Land Kings. I just co tanked with a Ninja on Bahamut (version 1) and I would say we both tanked for about the same amount. I went as Pld/Nin. Pld/Nin is not just for DDing... and if you are too close minded to think that anything but Pld/War works, I feel bad for you.

This is another thing I've argued about before. A PLD/NIN is really closer to NIN than PLD simply because Utsusemi is what ultimately makes NIN a NIN and you get it subbed. Using PLD/NIN seems to me like admitting the superiority of blink tanking.

Not sure what your point here is. Limbus and Dynamis don't count to tank in because the mobs are not the strongest?

Pretty much. These mobs are so weak that you don't even need a tank as long as the mob is bouncing between melees and not beating up mages.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

Go ahead and keep living in your dream world.

And yes, I am going to roll NIN as soon as I get a few basic merits and farm some gear. Maybe SE will eventually realize what jobs need tweaking when everybody changes to the currently "hot" jobs. I'm also interested in THF because it's a fun job, but hell, I should rather roll WAR/NIN and go TP burn a Kirin in five minutes.

And what dream world would that be? All I was saying was shut up and deal with it, or GTFO. We all know how you feel about Paladins, and how you think Ninja are so much better. Thing is though, we don't want to hear about it all the time. For the most part I appreciate your contributions here, but I've grown so tired of your angst filled posts.

[Maju]

Re: Hard decision...

And what dream world would that be? All I was saying was shut up and deal with it, or GTFO. We all know how you feel about Paladins, and how you think Ninja are so much better. Thing is though, we don't want to hear about it all the time. For the most part I appreciate your contributions here, but I've grown so tired of your angst filled posts.

I'm simply answering the OP's questions. I always seek to improve myself as PLD and I also gladly try to help other PLDs but this is how I see things and I'm sure even you can't entirely disagree. I won't give out biased and false information even if this is the PLD forum. This is not a my job vs. your job discussion.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Hard decision...

I should rather roll WAR/NIN and go TP burn a Kirin in five minutes.

Hahahahaha. Listen, I don't know if you have fought Kirin or not, but just because you saw a video on YouTube of some geared up Vets doing something, doesn't mean you can pick that job and do it also. You are the one who is living in a dream world.

This is another thing I've argued about before. A PLD/NIN is really closer to NIN than PLD simply because Utsusemi is what ultimately makes NIN a NIN and you get it subbed. Using PLD/NIN seems to me like admitting the superiority of blink tanking.

I see your point here. "Give in to the enemy!" Oh Noooooeeeesss! Or you could except the fact that sometimes subbing Ninja works better for you, and enjoy your new versatility as a tank.

Pretty much. These mobs are so weak that you don't even need a tank as long as the mob is bouncing between melees and not beating up mages.

Granted some of the mobs I try to get as much hate as possible to hold long enough for my DD to kill, but that is still tanking. Also in Limbus there are Bosses that I main tank the whole time.

Sometimes I think you have to stop complaining about what you don't have or what you can't do, and try to make the best out of what you do have and what you can do.
I agree with you, Utsusemi is very strong. However, you are shaming the Paladin job if you post that Paladins can only do certain things and try to discourage a player wanting to try the job. If you said "this is all I get to do", that is one thing, but you said that is all that Paladins do in general, which I just don't agree with. To each his own.

Have fun tanking!

[Maju]

Re: Hard decision...

Hahahahaha. Listen, I don't know if you have fought Kirin or not, but just because you saw a video on YouTube of some geared up Vets doing something, doesn't mean you can pick that job and do it also. You are the one who is living in a dream world.

Ok, let's say 15 mins. Having the best gear and full merits has about 0 effect on your survival since it's all about buffs and Utsusemi. It will simply take a bit longer as a new 75 war.

I see your point here. "Give in to the enemy!" Oh Noooooeeeesss! Or you could except the fact that sometimes subbing Ninja works better for you, and enjoy your new versatility as a tank.

Yes, I know subbing NIN does work better in many situations. It might even work better than NIN/WAR or the new and popular NIN/DRK. However, you're still playing more with your sub than you are with your main since blinking attacks circumvents most of the PLD's strenghts.

I agree with you, Utsusemi is very strong. However, you are shaming the Paladin job if you post that Paladins can only do certain things and try to discourage a player wanting to try the job. If you said "this is all I get to do", that is one thing, but you said that is all that Paladins do in general, which I just don't agree with. To each his own.

I already proved people wrong on my CoP 2-5 run and I've gotten many compliments from exp party members, but that's only a minority. PLDs can do more than what most people think, but there is a reason to why people think NIN is superior. I could for example never tank Zilly Zilla (or whatever its name is) but a NIN can do it without breaking a sweat. The same goes for Charybdis and many other NMs.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

Utsusemi broke this game. Anyone who disagrees with that only does so because they love their delicious shadows. Ignorance and laziness broke it further. SE dumped gas on this burning, sinking ship by trying to play both hands. Introducing gear that assists with blink tanking, and then trying to win the hearts of PLDs with Public Relations faggotry. Just recently they said "Opps! Sorry we screwed you guys over and left you out to dry. Here, have a few job traits." But you know what? We weren't "broken" or in need of a fix. We can do what we've been doing since the beginning just as well now as we could back in the day. The only thing that holds us back is public opinion.

Throughout all of the time I've played this game I've seen so many different things, been through many different arguments over what is better, etc. What I've learned is that 90% of the time when someone speaks from "experience" they're just repeating something their friends said. Just last night someone was talking about the Sleepga 2 NM Agas. He claimed that you absolutely need a Ninja for it and that Paladins would get ripped apart trying it. He never did the quest before, and was relaying what one of his friends allegedly told him. I hear things like that every day on my LS, and it infuriates me. Ignorance is killing us, not mob difficulty or job weakness. I'm going to compile a list of things that we "can't" tank, and I'll be sure to record myself tanking every single one of those mobs. It won't change opinions, but at least I'll be able to lol at people who doubt.