Hard decision...

[Stooky]

Re: Hard decision...

Paladin is a tank, a very good one at that. With the ability to cure and the many abilitys that produce hate you can hold a mob on you as the mob gets pounded. A ninja was not origonaly made to be a tank but became that becuase the ability utsumi ichi and ni which let you create a shadow and dodge some attacks. A ninja creates hate through provoke and there ninjitsu. A ninja does not have mp so they dont have to rest, but as a pld you do and that is somthing you have to do and as a taru pld the time regaining form 0 back to have I have takes a bit of time, but im sure it will speed up once I get my auto-refresh and also a dark staff.
But there both tanks and each is your prefrense. I love Curing and I love tanking so wahlah pld is the job for me :D

[Maju]

Re: Hard decision...

PLD is a fun job to play and it is a fine tank for several purposes. In my opinion, PLDs are good at exp tanking, dynamis and a few BCNMs. I believe paladins are preferred on some of the easier HNMs as well (strong ones like the three great wyrms are tanked by nins and pld/nins as far as I know).

However, you should be prepared for one thing; you will not be asked to participate in anything besides what I posted above. Merit parties do not need tanks (tanks only hold them back because nin subs provide such overpowered defense). Nobody will ever ask you to join them for an Assault mission. NIN will be the preferred tank against almost every single tough NM out there and this even includes the super rapidly attacking Charybdis.

Almost every BCNM that requires a tank will be treated as NIN only by most. This includes most CoP storyline BC fights.

As much as I hate to admit it, at this point the only thing PLD has over NIN is hate generation. NIN has the potential to both deal and take less damage than PLD in almost every situation. NINs are also easier to deal with if you are a BRD or COR since you don't have to ever hit the tank with MP buffs if it's a NIN.

[Armando]

Re: Hard decision...

I'm a PLD and I love it. I wouldn't change jobs for the world, except maybe if WAR/BLU could tank up to 75. Yes, people love NINs. Yes, people will always look for a NIN first for many events. I still enjoy my job more than any other. Really, though, try them both and see which you like best. Play what you want. Oh, and regardless of what people say, PLD is a good tank and that's a fact. It may not be suited to tank everything in the game, but it's still a good tank.

[Aeni]

Re: Hard decision...

It may not be suited to tank everything in the game, but it's still a good tank.

IIRC, it was the only thing that could tank for a while. Thus, you were forced to tank as a PLD for everything (When cap was lower) and you had to think of ways to make the PLD last. Even on KB, I remember you'd have several PLDs tank it.

I think NINs only were suppose to be alternatives and options, but not meant to completely overtake PLDs and put them out of a job. However, in this game, I came to find that ...

(a) Easier is always better.
(b) Everyone wants more for less work.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Hard decision...

PLD is a fun job to play and it is a fine tank for several purposes. In my opinion, PLDs are good at exp tanking, dynamis and a few BCNMs. I believe paladins are preferred on some of the easier HNMs as well (strong ones like the three great wyrms are tanked by nins and pld/nins as far as I know).
However, you should be prepared for one thing; you will not be asked to participate in anything besides what I posted above. Merit parties do not need tanks (tanks only hold them back because nin subs provide such overpowered defense). Nobody will ever ask you to join them for an Assault mission. NIN will be the preferred tank against almost every single tough NM out there and this even includes the super rapidly attacking Charybdis.
Almost every BCNM that requires a tank will be treated as NIN only by most. This includes most CoP storyline BC fights.
As much as I hate to admit it, at this point the only thing PLD has over NIN is hate generation. NIN has the potential to both deal and take less damage than PLD in almost every situation. NINs are also easier to deal with if you are a BRD or COR since you don't have to ever hit the tank with MP buffs if it's a NIN.

Please don't spread misinformation. My LS uses Paladin and Ninjas to tank HNM. I have main tanked all of the sky gods and I have been the main tank on the sea jailers and the NM Aerns that we have fought so far there. I main tank on our Limbus runs unless the other Paladin that goes main tanks. I don't merit much on my Paladin anymore, but I have merits, so if you put in the effort you can do merit parties (both as pld/war tanking and pld/nin DD). I did every CoP BCNM as Paladin. My CoP static also had a lolDrg and an emoDrk, but we all have our rings. I do Assaults every Monday night unless we have a Linkshell Event. Also, even if my Linkshell prefers Ninja on a certain NM that doesn't mean I don't have a role to fill at the event. For example when we do a Rostrum Pump run.... although I don't main tank Alastor Antlion, I and the other Paladins form a separate party and handle adds and outside heal.

I'm sorry I have to go on like this, but saying that Paladin only gets asked to do exp tanking, dynamis, a few BCNMs, and the easier HNMs is just plain untrue. Maybe it is true for you, but not for all Paladins.

/salute

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Hard decision...

A ninja creates hate through provoke and there ninjitsu.

For the most part anyways, but didn't SE make it so NIN would lose [some] hate with Utsusemi up?

However, in this game, I came to find that ...
(a) Easier is always better.
(b) Everyone wants more for less work.

{A} Can definitely be found in FFXI.
{B} That's life, and nothing wrong with that.

The way of the Pld defender, and has the power to cure one self. To let his strength fall to increase def to protect others. If you choose the path of the holy protecter, to take hits and stand, but also not afraid of the death you might take.

The way of the Nin Caster of Shadows. Thoughts of Ninja stealth and debuffing. Also the power of shadows to trick the monster in hitting a "shadow." The use of ninjitsu also helps maintain hate and help debuff mob.

The choice is yours if you like to debuff and cast into the shadows of the dark, or Defense of the light and able to cure yourself.

Only way to decide is decide which way you like to fight

I think this does put it right on the spot. Even if I'm the only healer in my party as RDM, I've found I prefer to refresh/haste a PLD then to haste a NIN, for me it seems the PLD would main-heal without much problem and still keep plenty of hate, and would at least be able to keep a "crisis situation" under control better compared to a NIN. Of course I've not really had either a bad PLD or NIN for the longest of time.

[Radel-King_of_Pirates]

Re: Hard decision...

I think this does put it right on the spot. Even if I'm the only healer in my party as RDM, I've found I prefer to refresh/haste a PLD then to haste a NIN, for me it seems the PLD would main-heal without much problem and still keep plenty of hate, and would at least be able to keep a "crisis situation" under control better compared to a NIN. Of course I've not really had either a bad PLD or NIN for the longest of time.

Well I had a few as my Drk . . . Nin tanks I am sorry if I am really paying attention to my dmg output I won't pull hate but times I just go I become the tank -_-. Not saying that I didn't do to plds but I have to do more dmg to pull hate so the thf can do sata back on to the tank which is fun lol.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

For the most part anyways, but didn't SE make it so NIN would lose [some] hate with Utsusemi up?

I'm pretty sure they lose hate while casting it, not while it's up. I think it works the opposite way a spell normally would. I think of it as a line graph, making spikes when you cast spells, use JAs, etc. From what I've read and seen for myself, a spell makes 2 spikes. The initial cast, and the effect it has on it's target. I believe SE just inverted the spikes that Utsusemi used to create when being cast. By the way, I could be inaccurate so take what I said with a grain of salt. D:

Well I had a few as my Drk . . . Nin tanks I am sorry if I am really paying attention to my dmg output I won't pull hate but times I just go I become the tank -_-. Not saying that I didn't do to plds but I have to do more dmg to pull hate so the thf can do sata back on to the tank which is fun lol.

Hate management is everyone's responsibility. I used to have the urge to go all out every once in awhile, but after picking up this class and playing it for..about 123 total levels now, (two different characters) I make sure to watch my hate carefully when playing as any other class. Less headaches for the tank is always a good thing, eh? Sometimes though, it just can't be helped. Like when you're playing as Monk and get a double crit just before nailing the mob with a high damage WS. For those times, we have Cover and Cures. Let's see a Ninja do that. >.>

[Mirrorim]

Re: Hard decision...

...and would at least be able to keep a "crisis situation" under control better compared to a NIN.

I'm only level 41 atm, but so far that right there seems to be a big benefit to having a PLD tank, at least at my level.

I love PLD and am so far very happy with my decision. Its a lot of fun, tanking is great. Most of the parties I've been in as PLD are very open about their preference for PLD, and I haven't had an issue being replaced by a NIN yet. Maybe its different by server, but I've had nothing but good experiences so far.

[Asir]

Re: Hard decision...

From a Career Mage soon turning PLD, I'd have to say a PLD makes me feel safer then a NIN. The feeling strengthens after they get Cover. While I've never denied a party with a NIN, I've always been really happy when I'd get invited to a party with a PLD. Before the patch that gave PLDs MP Refresh, I've often heard they were MP sponges but I always found that to be the opposite. I tend to use more MP with a NIN then a PLD.

I love PLD and am so far very happy with my decision. Its a lot of fun, tanking is great. Most of the parties I've been in as PLD are very open about their preference for PLD, and I haven't had an issue being replaced by a NIN yet. Maybe its different by server, but I've had nothing but good experiences so far.

I've had a few parties try to boot a PLD because a NIN became available. Those parties always got a piece of my mind and I would leave with the PLD to form another party with the PLD. Nothing ruins a party faster then losing both tank and healer at the same time. It's rude to invite one person then kick them because another job becomes available.

[Maju]

Re: Hard decision...

I have main tanked all of the sky gods and I have been the main tank on the sea jailers and the NM Aerns that we have fought so far there.

I don't know about jailers but sky gods are some of the easier HNMs in the game. Besides, if you tank with a good NIN or two you can pretty much 3-man most of them. Try doing that with PLD.

I main tank on our Limbus runs unless the other Paladin that goes main tanks.

I've never been in Limbus either. I'd imagine the mob toughness is similar to Dynamis, though, which is pretty damn weak.

I don't merit much on my Paladin anymore, but I have merits, so if you put in the effort you can do merit parties (both as pld/war tanking and pld/nin DD).

Yea you can, but you'll have to make the PT yourself (and somehow convince people to join you) or leech in with the help of an LS mate. Nobody will actually invite you unless they're an outcast job as well. I'm planning to merit on my PLD anyway and as a PLD/WAR DD setup when possible. Screw /NIN, it only lowers my damage output.

I did every CoP BCNM as Paladin. My CoP static also had a lolDrg and an emoDrk, but we all have our rings.

Yeah, I did 2-5 as PLD (not done with CoP yet as it's near impossible to find a PT during EU time) even though it's a NIN onry mission. I burned through a hefty ammount of potions and yagudo drinks despite having just about the best possible 40 cap gear, though. We had a DRG in the group also.

I do Assaults every Monday night unless we have a Linkshell Event. Also, even if my Linkshell prefers Ninja on a certain NM that doesn't mean I don't have a role to fill at the event.

The only Assault I've done is Golden Salvage because I've yet to meet anyone who wants a PLD to tag along to any other assault.

For example when we do a Rostrum Pump run.... although I don't main tank Alastor Antlion, I and the other Paladins form a separate party and handle adds and outside heal.

What if there are no adds? Do you then feel proud of being a ghetto WHM since you'll get destroyed in seconds if you try to tank?

I'm sorry I have to go on like this, but saying that Paladin only gets asked to do exp tanking, dynamis, a few BCNMs, and the easier HNMs is just plain untrue. Maybe it is true for you, but not for all Paladins.

Most things aren't true for everyone, but I think my post gives a pretty good general idea of what PLDs are used for.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

Most things aren't true for everyone, but I think my post gives a pretty good general idea of what PLDs are used for.

I'd say it gives a rather skewed idea of what Paladins are used for, not a general one. Seriously Maju, all you ever do is bitch about how shitty this job is. Suck it up and quit your bitching or level a different job.

[raidenn]

Re: Hard decision...

I'd say it gives a rather skewed idea of what Paladins are used for, not a general one. Seriously Maju, all you ever do is bitch about how shitty this job is. Suck it up and quit your bitching or level a different job.

How eloquent...

[Zamphire]

Re: Hard decision...

For the most part anyways, but didn't SE make it so NIN would lose [some] hate with Utsusemi up?

Alright, let me set this straight for everyone.

When someone gets hit by a monster (anyone) you lose some amount of hate (this amount is effected by CHR which is why CHR is good for tanks.) Before the update that changed Utsusemi, when a shadow would take the damage it would count as a miss, which reduces no hate. So, what the update did, was count shadows as a hit so it reduced hate just like if you were actually hit. This was done in an effort to make tanking for balanced between the two. NIN = No damage, low hate. PLD = Lots of damage, lots of hate.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Hard decision...

How eloquent...

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